Phoenix Man Dies After Being Tasered

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news...16440001150542
&dt=20050503164400&w=APO&coview=

13 Taser related deaths in the U.S. and Canada in the first three months
of this year, compared with 6 for the same time period last year.
Interesting. I listen daily to the police radio in my area, we have at
least one Taser Queen officer, she must literally Tase 10 people a month,
at the least. Yesterday, two male officers on a call for a psychotic
patient, were asked by the dispatch if one of them had a Taser. The one
officer replied "oh yeah", in a very exuberant manner. Guess what? He
called in minutes later, asking for an ambulance, as he had to Tase the
man. Imagine that.

Every time they Tase someone here, they take him/her to the hospital.
Recently, the officer remained the Tased patient at the hospital for at
least 2 hours, and had to be relieved by another officer. Too bad that
the hospital doesn't give priority to Tased patients, but then again, I
guess they would need to build another wing.

This area doesn't have the manpower to waste babysitting Taser victims in
the hospital. Of course, those of you that are blindly Pro law
enforcement will balk, after all being a cop is a dangerous job. But so
is being a fireman, a lineman, a chemical plant worker, a Lobster
Fisherman, etc. If the officers are so intimidated by their work, they
have the freedom to get a desk job somewhere.

We can't condone the sacrifice of the Rights and Freedoms of ordinary
Americans to make the world a safer place for cops. Of course, none of
this will happen to you. My sons were accosted by 2 Pittsburgh cops after
my son had made an illegal left turn. He had his license, owners and
insurance card, the car was registered and inspected. Ordinarily, they
issue a ticket and you're on your way. Not so this time. One officer
proceeded as expected, the other stood there and tried to instigate my
sons into an outburst. The stereo in the car was removed for service (I
had it at my house), and one officer asked about the missing radio by
asking "what the **** is the story with the hole in the dash"? My son
explained. Shortly after that, the same officer, while looking at the
outside of the car said "what a piece of **** this car is, but I guess
there's an ass for every seat".

He continued by insisting that my son was drunk, they reached in and
searched the inside of the car, such as in the door storage areas, and he
kept saying "we know that you have drugs, just tell us, and we'll let you
go". This went on for about 15 minutes, when my oldest son (28 years old,
he wasn't the driver), finally said "our uncle is a police officer". The
2 cops got a chuckle out of that, and they said "oh yeah, where does he
work"? My son gave them the details. (their uncle is a detective with the
Pittsburgh Police). The officers grew silent and went off to the side to
talk to each other. They returned and said that they were going to let
them go, as long as my son thought he was fit to drive.

What would have happened if my sons lost their temper? Taser time! Never
mind that they didn't have anything for the officers to hold them for.
They were just going to anger my sons until they got mad, and charge them
with something. Yes yes, he did make an illegal turn, this would justify
a ticket, not the harassment.

Dr. Artaud

On Wed, 04 May 2005 03:10:42 -0000, "€ Dr. Artaud €"
wrote:

Phoenix Man Dies After Being Tasered

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news...16440001150542
&dt=20050503164400&w=APO&coview=

13 Taser related deaths in the U.S. and Canada in the first three months
of this year, compared with 6 for the same time period last year.
Interesting. I listen daily to the police radio in my area, we have at
least one Taser Queen officer, she must literally Tase 10 people a month,
at the least. Yesterday, two male officers on a call for a psychotic
patient, were asked by the dispatch if one of them had a Taser. The one
officer replied "oh yeah", in a very exuberant manner. Guess what? He
called in minutes later, asking for an ambulance, as he had to Tase the
man. Imagine that.

Every time they Tase someone here, they take him/her to the hospital.
Recently, the officer remained the Tased patient at the hospital for at
least 2 hours, and had to be relieved by another officer. Too bad that
the hospital doesn't give priority to Tased patients, but then again, I
guess they would need to build another wing.

This area doesn't have the manpower to waste babysitting Taser victims in
the hospital. Of course, those of you that are blindly Pro law
enforcement will balk, after all being a cop is a dangerous job. But so
is being a fireman, a lineman, a chemical plant worker, a Lobster
Fisherman, etc. If the officers are so intimidated by their work, they
have the freedom to get a desk job somewhere.

We can't condone the sacrifice of the Rights and Freedoms of ordinary
Americans to make the world a safer place for cops. Of course, none of
this will happen to you. My sons were accosted by 2 Pittsburgh cops after
my son had made an illegal left turn. He had his license, owners and
insurance card, the car was registered and inspected. Ordinarily, they
issue a ticket and you're on your way. Not so this time. One officer
proceeded as expected, the other stood there and tried to instigate my
sons into an outburst. The stereo in the car was removed for service (I
had it at my house), and one officer asked about the missing radio by
asking "what the **** is the story with the hole in the dash"? My son
explained. Shortly after that, the same officer, while looking at the
outside of the car said "what a piece of **** this car is, but I guess
there's an ass for every seat".

He continued by insisting that my son was drunk, they reached in and
searched the inside of the car, such as in the door storage areas, and he
kept saying "we know that you have drugs, just tell us, and we'll let you
go". This went on for about 15 minutes, when my oldest son (28 years old,
he wasn't the driver), finally said "our uncle is a police officer". The
2 cops got a chuckle out of that, and they said "oh yeah, where does he
work"? My son gave them the details. (their uncle is a detective with the
Pittsburgh Police). The officers grew silent and went off to the side to
talk to each other. They returned and said that they were going to let
them go, as long as my son thought he was fit to drive.

What would have happened if my sons lost their temper? Taser time! Never
mind that they didn't have anything for the officers to hold them for.
They were just going to anger my sons until they got mad, and charge them
with something. Yes yes, he did make an illegal turn, this would justify
a ticket, not the harassment.

Dr. Artaud
You live in the Salt River Valley? That explains a lot.

A TinyURL for that long URL is http://tinyurl.com/aunuj

=======

€ Dr. Artaud € wrote:

Phoenix Man Dies After Being Tasered

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news...16440001150542
&dt=20050503164400&w=APO&coview=

13 Taser related deaths in the U.S. and Canada in the first three months
of this year, compared with 6 for the same time period last year.
Interesting. I listen daily to the police radio in my area, we have at
least one Taser Queen officer, she must literally Tase 10 people a month,
at the least. Yesterday, two male officers on a call for a psychotic
patient, were asked by the dispatch if one of them had a Taser. The one
officer replied "oh yeah", in a very exuberant manner. Guess what? He
called in minutes later, asking for an ambulance, as he had to Tase the
man. Imagine that.

Every time they Tase someone here, they take him/her to the hospital.
Recently, the officer remained the Tased patient at the hospital for at
least 2 hours, and had to be relieved by another officer. Too bad that
the hospital doesn't give priority to Tased patients, but then again, I
guess they would need to build another wing.

This area doesn't have the manpower to waste babysitting Taser victims in
the hospital. Of course, those of you that are blindly Pro law
enforcement will balk, after all being a cop is a dangerous job. But so
is being a fireman, a lineman, a chemical plant worker, a Lobster
Fisherman, etc. If the officers are so intimidated by their work, they
have the freedom to get a desk job somewhere.

We can't condone the sacrifice of the Rights and Freedoms of ordinary
Americans to make the world a safer place for cops. Of course, none of
this will happen to you. My sons were accosted by 2 Pittsburgh cops after
my son had made an illegal left turn. He had his license, owners and
insurance card, the car was registered and inspected. Ordinarily, they
issue a ticket and you're on your way. Not so this time. One officer
proceeded as expected, the other stood there and tried to instigate my
sons into an outburst. The stereo in the car was removed for service (I
had it at my house), and one officer asked about the missing radio by
asking "what the **** is the story with the hole in the dash"? My son
explained. Shortly after that, the same officer, while looking at the
outside of the car said "what a piece of **** this car is, but I guess
there's an ass for every seat".

He continued by insisting that my son was drunk, they reached in and
searched the inside of the car, such as in the door storage areas, and he
kept saying "we know that you have drugs, just tell us, and we'll let you
go". This went on for about 15 minutes, when my oldest son (28 years old,
he wasn't the driver), finally said "our uncle is a police officer". The
2 cops got a chuckle out of that, and they said "oh yeah, where does he
work"? My son gave them the details. (their uncle is a detective with the
Pittsburgh Police). The officers grew silent and went off to the side to
talk to each other. They returned and said that they were going to let
them go, as long as my son thought he was fit to drive.

What would have happened if my sons lost their temper? Taser time! Never
mind that they didn't have anything for the officers to hold them for.
They were just going to anger my sons until they got mad, and charge them
with something. Yes yes, he did make an illegal turn, this would justify
a ticket, not the harassment.

Dr. Artaud

"David" wrote in message
...
You live in the Salt River Valley? That explains a lot.

It does?

Lets See - What Are Our Alternatives :

"RHF" wrote in news:1115236890.431995.103040
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

http://newstandardnews.net/content/?...em&itemid=1486

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...tml?source=rss

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=
1A01E91E134A327080256F190042408D


http://www.stolenlives.org/read/index.php?
action=show&section=area_los_angeles.xml&display=L OS+ANGELES&area=19


Let's see, what is the alternative?

1. Reevaluate the regulations stipulating the physical size that officers
need to be to be on the force. When you have tiny women wielding guns and
Tasers, you are going to have problems with the use of force where
otherwise unnecessary. A woman officer here, using her firearm, shot a
fleeing prisoner in the back, killing him. The prisoner's hands were
cuffed behind him. Allegedly he was a Karate Expert, but was some
distance away from her when she killed him. Of course her actions were
deemed justifiable. This may have been a justifiable use for a Taser.

A 14 year old girl, refusing to yield to the demands of a Truancy
Officer, crossing the street instead, was Tased and collapsed in the
middle of the street, breaking her nose and placing her in risk of being
struck by traffic. She lived. THIS IS NOT a justifiable use of Tasers. A
72 year old woman, attempting to visit a friend in a retirement home,
discovered that the friend was not in her room. She remained in the Home,
but the officials there objected and asked her to leave. She didn't,
fearing that her friend was sick. As a woman officer approached the 72
year old woman, the 72 year old finally spotted her friend in the
hallway, and started towards her. The officer stopped her, telling her
that she was under arrest. When she continued towards her friend, she was
Tased by the woman officer, collapsing to the floor.

Yeah RHF, these are real tough criminals deserving to be Tased.
Fortunately they had the Tasers though, I can see them shooting a 72 year
old with a firearm, or beating her with a night stick. LOL. You think in
terms of the Serious Criminal, armed to the teeth, I think in terms of
the people that are comparatively innocent, that these officers are
abusing and shooting, especially with Tasers.

2. Educate officers that everyone other then their own "are not enemies".
Unfortunately, you have obsessed on one aspect of my post, ignoring the
remainder. Whether an officer shoots someone dead or electrocutes them is
a moot point, as dead people are still dead. Increasingly, the public is
held at a much higher bar than the officers are, e.g. officers shoot an
unarmed man in New York, striking him 18 times, out of 40 or so shots
fired altogether. The autopsy showed that a shot went through the man's
foot, from bottom to top, indicating that they were still shooting at him
after he had fallen.

The man had no gun or weapon, committed no crime, had no police record,
yet the shooting was held to be justifiable. If you shoot an intruder
that is wielding a gun, you most likely will still be arrested, still
miss work, still spend money on an attorney. The officers may have been
suspended "with" pay, and don't need to pay for their defense.

It's unconscionable that police continue to escalate the use of force
when no force is warranted. It's unconscionable that they try to provoke
a situation where no situation exists.

Lastly, many occupations need to cope with dangerous situations, many
more dangerous than what the police experience. If they feel overwhelmed,
let them find new employment, let's not sacrifice our Rights for their
conveniences.


Dr. Artaud


Lets See - What Are Our Alternatives :

JD,

In a small central KY town I witnessed the LAW use a tasser on a
young woman who was not fighting or arguing. The LEO in just
walked up and shot her in teh back. Now maybe she was a wanted
escaped felon known to be armed or skilled in un-armed conflict.
Or, a more likely, the cop weas just being the jerk that small town
LEO so often are.

But it was pretty damn cold.

She was talking with her boyfriend/live in and he was the loud
threatening one.

We, wife and I, wer loading abrric into our car and we saw maybe
5 minutes before the shooting. I don't know what happened and I
didn't get envolved.

It was in a walmart parking lot on a Satuday afternoon.

Shocked the hell out o f me and my wife.

But like I said maybe there was more to it then what we witnessed.
Or maybe teh LEO was just a jerk.

I remember thinking at the time if this happened a little further into
the
hills that cop could expect a 3030 some morning with no warning no
threats. Blood fueds are not supposed to be a long gone past time in
eastern KY. But I khave heard credible stories of how certain bully
LEOs came to sad violent ends over the last 20 years.

I am not advocating any action on the part of anyone. Just mentioning
something that I saw and relating it to a certain KSP LEO who died
abruptly.
The KSP officer had a bad reputation of beatting the crap out of
people.
One cicitzen is reported have taken direct action. Of course the KSP
made
sure the perp never came to trial. If anyone wants I will try to dig
out web based refferences. The perp was shot dead by a KSP officer in
Indiana.

Terry

On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:55:54 -0000, "€ Dr. Artaud €"
wrote:


2. Educate officers that everyone other then their own "are not enemies".

The current doctrine is -- There are three inds of people in
the world -- cops, cops' families and suspects.


Unfortunately, you have obsessed on one aspect of my post, ignoring the
remainder. Whether an officer shoots someone dead or electrocutes them is
a moot point, as dead people are still dead. Increasingly, the public is
held at a much higher bar than the officers are, e.g. officers shoot an
unarmed man in New York, striking him 18 times, out of 40 or so shots
fired altogether.

If that was a record, it fell today -- 96 shots fired at a
wacko, but unarmed man in a van in Compton, CA. He was hit four times
(great marksmen that they are). Watching the 18 seconds of shooting on
TV, you have to wonder why some cops weren't killed as they were
arranged as a circular firing squad.

Of course it took many fewer shots a few weeks back to waste
another unarmed wacko who had the temerity to brandish a rock at the
CHP in San Mateo, CA.


The autopsy showed that a shot went through the man's
foot, from bottom to top, indicating that they were still shooting at him
after he had fallen.

The man had no gun or weapon, committed no crime, had no police record,
yet the shooting was held to be justifiable. If you shoot an intruder
that is wielding a gun, you most likely will still be arrested, still
miss work, still spend money on an attorney. The officers may have been
suspended "with" pay, and don't need to pay for their defense.

It's unconscionable that police continue to escalate the use of force
when no force is warranted. It's unconscionable that they try to provoke
a situation where no situation exists.

Lastly, many occupations need to cope with dangerous situations, many
more dangerous than what the police experience. If they feel overwhelmed,
let them find new employment, let's not sacrifice our Rights for their
conveniences.


Dr. Artaud


Lets See - What Are Our Alternatives :

On 04 May 2005 23:12:00 GMT, "-=jd=-"
wrote:

On Wed 04 May 2005 05:55:54p, "€ Dr. Artaud €"
wrote in message :

"RHF" wrote in news:1115236890.431995.103040
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

http://newstandardnews.net/content/?...em&itemid=1486

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...tml?source=rss

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=
1A01E91E134A327080256F190042408D


http://www.stolenlives.org/read/index.php?
action=show&section=area_los_angeles.xml&display=L OS+ANGELES&area=19


Let's see, what is the alternative?


Among all your suggestions, did you forget to add: Educate the public to
*not* treat the phrase "You Are Under Arrest" as the signal to flee and/or
fight?

So knuckle under regardless of the circumstances. Sieg heil.



That might help. After all, your boys were smart enough to know how
to behave with a couple of officers behaving like cretins and they came out
just fine.

The cretins would have escalated as requierd to accomplish
their ends had his son not gotten himself moved from category 3 to
category 2 of "cops, cops' families and suspects".