In article , Mike Coslo writes:

Make a question pool large enough, and there is no problem.

Sure there is.

I dunno, Jim. I can read a book, or I can look at a question pool. It's
all the same to me.

To you, yes. But to others, it may be very different.

Which do you *really* think requires more understanding of the mateiral and the
concepts behind it - a test where you don't know the exact Q&A beforehand, or
one where you do?

If you make questions up, you have to have a
reference for them someplace. Is it in a book? fine, study the book
then. Is it a question pool? Fine also.

*If* you only care about right answers rather than understanding.

Rote memorization? Seriously if anyone rote memorizes the General and
Extra tests, they are very intelligent and very stupid at the same time.

Depends on the person and the subject. In some areas, the only way to know the
material is rote memorization. (How long is a ham license term?)

And they will have a few curves thrown at them at test time.

How? The test questions are all in the pool. Read the pool and you have seen
every possible question and answer.

Heck, download the pool as a Word or text document, edit out the wrong answers,
print the questions up on 3x5 cards and just read the dern things while in the
room of many doors.

Remember the game "Trivial Pursuit"? When it was a big deal ~20 years ago, I
used to carry a handful of the cards in my pocket and read them at odd times
(on the subway, waiting for the elevator, etc.) Didn't consciously try to
memorize them, just read them. I was soon nearly unbeatable - as long as the
game used the Original edition cards.

The question pools have far fewer questions than the Trivial Pursuit cards did.

A thought: If a question pool is cheating, then a book with the answers
in the test in the course of reading is cheating too

Question pools don't equal cheating unless they are supposed to be
secret.

So...

The only way that *some* Hams will be happy is if the test questions
have answers in no book - that is to say that all testing will have to
be in the form of basic research - the new ham will have to advance the
state of the art in his/her admission test.


bwaaahaahaa

Otherwise the new ham is cheating and isn't as good as the old ham. 8^)

(I just recently had to listen to an old timer in person on a tirade
about the worthless new hams - again.)

Why did you have to listen? I find turning on my heel and walking away
does wonders. Or, looking the ranter straight in the eye and saying,
"You're just wrong...." (lookit how the oldest ranter here on rrap
reacts to being told he's wrong - which he often is....)

Well, it wasn't a case where I could or should have turned away. I
supposed I could have kicked the person out, but I also needed the help
he was giving on a task. Real life has a habit of modifying our
behavior. Plus ut wasn't a personal attack. Most hams I know think I'm a
relative old timer. But its still irritating.

Well, he was just plain wrong. The test is just one part of being qualified.

Every once in a while, I'll mention something like "Hey, I resemble
that remark!"

There was an old song called "Patches" that you may recall from high school
days. Man is remembering how tough he had it as a kid. Among the folks I grew
up with, we still use the line

"And then the rains came, and washed all the crops away"

whenever somebody starts geezering.

Besides, what it all comes down to is this:

Hams - old and new - didn't change the exam procedures. Neither did
ARRL, NCI, NCVEC or any other ham group. FCC did, because it saved
them resources.

We aren't going to a system other than multiple-choice
published-Q&A-pool exams in the foreseeable future. Just not gonna
happen.

Just a thought here... If we were to say, go to a book oriented
reference for the tests, I can assure you that it would be no better
than the pool based system.

Sure it would. But we're not going to go back to secret tests. Not gonna happen
- at least not anytime soon. Why get in a lather over it?

Thousands and thousands of college students
prove this on a daily basis, pulling all-nighters, cramming to take
their tests. All the crammed knowledge is placed in shirt term memory,
to quickly fade after the test is over.

That only works for some people. And recall that for most of those students,
the cramming is not the only preparation done.

Maybe the answer is to have on on one testing, where the test
administrator comes to love with you for a week, to see if you *really*
have knowledge of Ham radio....hehe.

If the test administrator looks like Heidi Klum, or if I get to be *her* test
administrator, I'll volunteer to put the system throuigh its paces. Heck, I'll
sign up for two weeks......

73 de Jim, N2EY