N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


The exact process I used for getting my license was:

First I took an online test. First couple times did just awful. In both
General and Extra, I started out at about the 50 percent level.


That's really pretty good for a start, with no preparation.


Downloaded the question pool. Used it as reading material on the throne
and around the house. But mostly as a post-test reference


Did you highlight the right answers or black out the wrong ones?

Neither!

Continued taking the online tests. For every question I got wrong on
the tests, I researched out the answer. Sources were reference books and
the 'net.


Yep.

Continued until I scored 100 percent pretty consistently.


And the actual test was a breeze, right?

Wasn't too bad.


What you did was to 'study the test'. Which isn't "wrong" or illegal, despite
what some may rant about it. You did what worked for you, within the rules.

Here's the thing, Jim. I can still remember the right answers. So did I
learn the material?

Which do you *really* think requires more understanding of the mateiral and
the
concepts behind it - a test where you don't know the exact Q&A beforehand,
or one where you do?

All the same to me.

Really?


Well, as in the above comment, the method worked for me

And I think my method above says something more.
Being smart is not necessarily knowing something - it is knowing what
you know, knowing what you don't know, and knowing where to get the
answer so you *do* know.


Kinda like the difference between schooling and education.


If you make questions up, you have to have a
reference for them someplace. Is it in a book? fine, study the book
then. Is it a question pool? Fine also.

*If* you only care about right answers rather than understanding.

Not really. I saw a electrician licensing test book with question pool
recently. Lives depend on the electrician doing safe and proper work.
and they are depending on the Electrician knowing.


But someone cannot become a licensed electrician by written tests alone. There
are extensive practical tests and experience requirements as well, and several
levels of licensing. IIRC, here in PA it takes 9000 hours of documented work
experience under the supervision of a licensed electrician to be licensed at
the highest level.

Sure, but if you flunk the test, question pool and all, then you
aren't an electrician. 9000 hours of training aside.


Rote memorization? Seriously if anyone rote memorizes the General and
Extra tests, they are very intelligent and very stupid at the same time.



Depends on the person and the subject. In some areas, the only way to know
the
material is rote memorization. (How long is a ham license term?)

Of course, but that is diluting the issue. No other way to learn that
stuff.


The problem is that more and more of the test is becoming "that stuff".


And they will have a few curves thrown at them at test time.

How? The test questions are all in the pool. Read the pool and you have
seen every possible question and answer.

All my tests have been from the question pool, so it is something I
have some advantage over many people here. Actual knowledge rather than
opinion.


I take a simulated test every so often just to maintain an even strain.


The answers are not always in the same order as they are in the pool. I
experienced this in my Extra test. And if the person knows the text of
the answer, they almost certainly *know* the answer. That takes a level
of understanding much greater than "This question's answer is "D"

How much different is that than reading a book?

Nobody with any sense memorizes the answer letters! But being able to know
which answer is right after having seen the exact Q&A several times before
doesn't guarantee any level of understanding.

For example, I could ask:

- Which of the following are blunatrons? (Flufnagles, zinthorps, calinars,
rhenotors)

A) Fluffnagles and rhenotors only
B) Zinthorps only
C) Calinars and zinthorps only
D) Calinars, zinthorps and fluffnagles

(Of course the correct answer is C)

Your not going to catch me in a trick question, Mr. Micollis! Zinthorps
only exist at a temperature of absolute zero, and even then it's only a
theory!..........

Now, if you remember that calinars and zinthorps are blunatrons but fluffnagles
and rhenotors aren't, you'll always get the question right. But do you really
understand anything about blunatrons?


Heck, download the pool as a Word or text document, edit out the wrong
answers,
print the questions up on 3x5 cards and just read the dern things while in
the room of many doors.

Remember the game "Trivial Pursuit"? When it was a big deal ~20 years ago,
I
used to carry a handful of the cards in my pocket and read them at odd
times
(on the subway, waiting for the elevator, etc.) Didn't consciously try to
memorize them, just read them. I was soon nearly unbeatable - as long as
the game used the Original edition cards.

The question pools have far fewer questions than the Trivial Pursuit cards
did.



A thought: If a question pool is cheating, then a book with the answers
in the test in the course of reading is cheating too



Question pools don't equal cheating unless they are supposed to be
secret.


So...

The only way that *some* Hams will be happy is if the test questions
have answers in no book - that is to say that all testing will have to
be in the form of basic research - the new ham will have to advance the
state of the art in his/her admission test.


bwaaahaahaa



Otherwise the new ham is cheating and isn't as good as the old ham. 8^)


(I just recently had to listen to an old timer in person on a tirade
about the worthless new hams - again.)




Why did you have to listen? I find turning on my heel and walking away
does wonders. Or, looking the ranter straight in the eye and saying,
"You're just wrong...." (lookit how the oldest ranter here on rrap
reacts to being told he's wrong - which he often is....)

Well, it wasn't a case where I could or should have turned away. I
supposed I could have kicked the person out, but I also needed the help
he was giving on a task. Real life has a habit of modifying our
behavior. Plus ut wasn't a personal attack. Most hams I know think I'm a
relative old timer. But its still irritating.


Well, he was just plain wrong. The test is just one part of being

qualified.

Of course. But sometimes we have to work with people that are just
plain wrong.


Yep.

Every once in a while, I'll mention something like "Hey, I resemble
that remark!"



There was an old song called "Patches" that you may recall from high school
days. Man is remembering how tough he had it as a kid. Among the folks I
grew up with, we still use the line

"And then the rains came, and washed all the crops away"

whenever somebody starts geezering.

hehe, I used to do a good rendition of the line after that - "And at
the age of thirteen, I felt I had the weight of the whooole world on my
shoulders" 8^)


"And Mama knew what I was going through..."

That's the one!

It's particularly effective when someone is going on and one about something
like how tough it was to find a parking space, or how long the line at
Starbucks was this morning,

That's how the Republican party got started isn't it? ;^)

and three people do it, one taking each line...



Besides, what it all comes down to is this:

Hams - old and new - didn't change the exam procedures. Neither did
ARRL, NCI, NCVEC or any other ham group. FCC did, because it saved
them resources.

We aren't going to a system other than multiple-choice
published-Q&A-pool exams in the foreseeable future. Just not gonna
happen.

Just a thought here... If we were to say, go to a book oriented
reference for the tests, I can assure you that it would be no better
than the pool based system.

Sure it would. But we're not going to go back to secret tests. Not gonna
happen - at least not anytime soon. Why get in a lather over it?



Thousands and thousands of college students
prove this on a daily basis, pulling all-nighters, cramming to take
their tests. All the crammed knowledge is placed in shirt term memory,
to quickly fade after the test is over.

That only works for some people. And recall that for most of those
students, the cramming is not the only preparation done.


Maybe the answer is to have on on one testing, where the test
administrator comes to love with you for a week, to see if you *really*
have knowledge of Ham radio....hehe.



If the test administrator looks like Heidi Klum, or if I get to be *her*
test
administrator, I'll volunteer to put the system throuigh its paces. Heck,
I'll sign up for two weeks......

Hey, maybe my dum typo was Karma!


I've got dibs on Ms. Klum if she ever needs a ham radio instructor.

Nice lass. Can you believe I had to look her up on the web? Big problem
is the name. I keep thinking of the old story of "Heidi", although the
real one bears no resemblance!!

- Mike KB3EIA -