RadioBanter - View Single Post

September 30th 04, 11:57 PM

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message

Wrong. Incorrect. Not true at all in the real world of HF radio.

Len has just demonstrated, once more, that he just doesn't get it.

You expected anything else??

"Real world of HF radio?" The one that goes from 3 MHz to 30 MHz?

Amateur activity is concerned only with a fraction of that.

Amateur licenses aren't legal for out-of-amateur band transmission
even if one has a four-on-the-floor extra license.

Has nothing to do with the subject at hand, which is HF amateur radio.

Spank.

Kellie has a spanking fetish?

The SUBJECT AT HAND is "US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???

Look at the subject line in the message header.

Try to get your subject threads in a row, ducks.

As far as on-off keyed radiotelegraphy, your mention of "phase noise"
as being "crud" in synthesizer frequency control is akin to making
a big case for gold-plated music system speaker wires. :-)

Wrong again, Len.

What a goofball . . .

Kellie has Monster Cable speaker wires installed? Tsk. No wonder
he be angry at anyone slighting Monster Cable products. :-)

responses...one of the papers I wrote at RCA was on quick
identification of such possible spurs (not the first, but it was a
very quick way to determine them).

Misses the point completely.

Spank.

Tsk. More of the spanking fetish. :-)

Wait a minnit, if there are sideband signals on the LO output the
inference seems to be that the carrier is being modulated. By
something. What something?

You're an extra and you don't know? :-)

Tsk.

That's why phase noise is important to hams.

Huh: I learned a bit from this post. Which is what USENET usta be all
about . .

Tsk. Mighty macho morsemen extras shoulda known this.

Where was all the noise about phase noise BEFORE the
cellular equipment expansion? There were oscillators around
then, even PLL frequency control systems.

Phase noise was NOT an important buzzword then. Now it is,
coincidental with the cell phone equipment and component
makers using it in their advertisements.

Conclusion: Too many hams get their "technical expertise"
by memorizing advertisement copy instead of theory texts.

1 Hz is common in modern manufactured amateur equipment. But that's not
really the issue.

Of course it isn't. This sort of overkill ticks me off, it's BS tossed
out by the advertising geniuses to reel in the no-clues and
overcomplicates the equipment for the rest of us.

...like the use of the Big Buzzword "phase noise." Hi hi.

increments Sweetums, the best you can do with the thing is tune it to
the nearest 100 Hz increment yes? Of course you silly old thing. I've
never seen an R-70 in the flesh so tell me, are those actually Nixies
in the display for God's sake?!

R-70 is a pretty good receiver.

OK, the R-70 "happened" during my radio hiatus and went past me so I
poked around the Web for info on it. Looks like it is a decent
performer. Problem is that at this point it's OLD, it comes out of the
same generation of equipment as the TS-930/940 did both of which now
suffer well-known aging/reliability problems. I've had more than my
share of those with the 940 so I wouldn't give an R-70 the desk space
if somebody gave me one gratis. If Sweetum's R-70 is still ticking
along without problems good for him.

Tsk. If an NCTA has an R-70, Kellie calls it "a piece of crap."

Leo has an R-70 which is not a "piece of crap" either...but Leo
isn't a PCTA extra (Canadian ham rules don't have "extras" but
I'm sure they have their share of mighty macho morsemen).

Collins radios for the amateur radio market are OLD.

Almost qualifies as a boatanchor now....

Hang classic tags on it.

No tags required. Just dust it off once in a while. Still works as
specified when purchased new.

Turns out Icom has a neat 3-loop PLL arrangment, doesn't
go into DDS or Fractional-N at all. Minimal phase noise and no
discernable "crud" anywhere within full tuning range.

How many points did Len get with it in the last CQWW? Or even the last SS
or Field Day?

Or in RRAP.

Tsk. Jimmie and Kellie avoid answering or discussing. Misdirection
is all they can do...but that is traditional in Usenet since before it was
split from the ARPANET. Saw it then, still see it now...all the
self-professed "experts" making like renowned gurus, dissing and
cussing anyone who disagrees with their immortal words.

Okay, so your spiffy-schmiffy 1 Hz resolution "xcver" is "guarnateed"
accurate because it has a "digital dial?" I don't think so.

Nobody claimed that it was accurate. It *is* precise, however. Big
difference.

Spank.

Kellie been watching Spanky McFarland on the late-night oldies on
TV? :-)

Yo Sweetums: I did a refresh on the 847 specs, the thing can display a
freq to 0.10 Hz resolution. Apologies for tossing out bad info. Heh.

Display is NOT the same as ACCURACY.

Didn't they teach you that in Mechanical Engineering courses on
phase-lock loops? :-)

Nobody is claiming that kind of *accuracy*. Only that kind of *precision*.

"He can wriggle, he can squirn . . . "

Kellie still think display resolution is the same as ACCURACY?

Is there anybody who knows what's up who *doesn't* do that
periodically??

How often Kellie do the WWV beat thing?

When he came back from "hiatus?" After the assignment to
shoot bears for navel intelligence?

I rather prefer what I've been exposed to since 1963 on frequency
control methods...

Still living in the past...

That's all he has left. Not counting Burke.

Awwww. You are beginning to sound like Jim Kehler...of the old days
before prostateitis hit him bad. Tsk, tsk. Get well soon.

I've accumulated frequency control design engineering experience
for 31 years now, along with a lot of other disciplines. I'm sure that
you will call all of that "more crap" and "bafflegab." :-)

said. Like, I could ask you "how's the zeta of your control loop"
and you would be out to lunch, cussing and hollering "bafflegab!"

No Sweetums, not at all, that's not the way I work. You're being silly
again. If by any chance I ran into an arcane topic like that in which
I had any interest whatsoever I'd ask an EE to uncurl it for me.

Engineering 101: Don't reinvent the wheel. They even taught us EEs that
one.

Tsk. PCTA extras would only ask another PCTA for technical help.
They don't recognize any NCTA as having any technical cognizance.

He's a breed I'm quite (unfortunately) familiar with: the old time
military aerospace out-in-the-shop bench tech types.

Kellie have years and years of experience in aerospace bullpens?

Tsk. Not long ago he was snottily looking down on all those
who got paychecks from employers, later calling them "drudges."

Self-professed royalty, he was.

Doesn't matter
what narrow fields they worked in, oleo struts, control surface
actuators, flight control electronics, radar, comms electronics, pilot
relief piping, their syndromes are all the same.

I've never worked in, on, around "oleo struts, control surface
actuators, flight control electronics, or relief piping." :-)

I use oleomargarine on bread and rolls, sometimes on baked
potatoes. Is that permissible by Kellie without having a degree
in nutrition? :-)

However, I HAVE had experience in civilian and military radio
communications, radionavigation equipment (TACAN, DME, VOR,
Localizer, Glideslope), IFF transponders, radars (search, weather,
target acquisition and tracking), earlier air-to-air missle systems
(principally the first Hughes Aircraft GARs 1 through 4), and the
strange McDonnel decoy drone that could imitate formations of
B-52s to Russky radar...using a TWT as a broadband mixer
covering many octaves.

None of that involved important work (according to Kellie) on
Relief Piping! (I am sooooo deficient in my resume...:-)

They had these little
niches in which they beavered away on their little piece of the
overall much bigger job or project or whatever it was. Eventually,
because of their complete immersion in their niches, they come to the
conclusion that it all would come apart save for their "expertise" and
anybody who isn't particularly up to speed on the nits and grits of
whatever they were buried in are unworthy no-clue clods.

Poor baby. Got confused by BASIC ELEMENTS of control loops?

Still think that control loops basic item descriptions are "nits and
grits" of minutae? Tsk.

"Zeta" is the common-use symbol for Damping Factor (as earlier
instructors wanted to call it). That's found in all control loop/system
textbooks. It determines the response in time of any such loop as
well as extremes of it resulting in things like "servo hunting" were
a servo will never settle down, always dithering (not at all good for
things like control surface coupling on aircraft or missles).

Response time figures into all control loops whether those involve
receiver AGC or PLLs. [the less cognizant want to characterize
"time constant" of AGC systems because that is "understandable"
without going into control system theory...but it is still a control
loop to hold gain more constant]

Sweetums is a
perfect example of these windbags.

"Windbags?" :-)

So along comes somebody like myself, a fish-out-of-water mechanical
engineeer in this group who readily concedes non-expertise in topics
like circuit design and even worse from his twisted perspective has no
interest at all in doing any "synthesizer development" sorts of things
so he bores in on me with his bafflegab.

Kellie is the fish out of water who wants to diss and cuss the
fisherman with his dying breath. Tsk.

Kellie calls basic control system items as "bafflegab."

He should have stuck with "important niche work" in relief piping.

Which highlights at least two
of his fundamental deficits: (A) He's mentally incapable of conceding
a lack of "technical expertise" on any subject involving radio,
particularly ham radio and (B) He's equally incapable of understanding
why professionals like thee and me feed each others' expertise and
work together to get from here to there and *don't* reinvent wheels.

Tsk. Kellie wants to retain the artificial arrogance of the PCTA
extra in many areas. Such as denigrating 1980s commercial
communication receiver products as "piece of crap." Such as
denouncing basic control system items/principles as "bafflegab."
Such as dismissing all who work for an employer as "drones"
or "drudges" incapable of going out on their own.

Tsk. You and Jimmie, "two expert professionals" in the field
of "radio communication" can go right ahead and reinvent all
your morsemanship wheels and make every newcomer to ham
radio keep the morse wheels revolving to the spin of the mighty
macho morsemen of the pre-WW2 times.

Old wheels still go around in circles...whether they "recycle"
OLD parts or not (which is a euphemism for "reinventing the
wheel" as it was done in decades past).

For some reason I was reminded of him. He sounded just like Len..

A gooder for certain.

SPAAAAAANK!

Spanky McKelly ought to readjust his paddles.

We both know Sweetums won't touch it with a ten foot pole even though
it's a sophmoric simple exercise. He doesn't know where to even start
to approach the problem let alone solve it so he'll diss it as
irrelevant. Typical and completely predictable sub-professional
defensive behavior.

Tsk. Sort of like Kellie and Jimmie's hot-loaded "questions" and
"challenges" which are strangely similar to the defensive mis-
directs of all the PCTA extras in here. :-)

Kellie and Jimmie want "my scores from the last Field Day" as
one loaded "challenge." :-) Not all amateurs participate in
"Field Day" and no non-amateur-licensee can possibly operate
legally. An example of a NON-challenge, already-known answer
disguised as a sort-of (sort off, really) "civil discourse" question.

One can spend two lifetimes diddling frequency synthesizers and such
but if whatever freq pops out of his gem doesn't make it to the
airwaves via an engineered radiator and it's support structure one
might as well have been a lifeguard in the Mohave desert.

Tsk. Ever hear of China Lake? It's the Naval Weapons Station
Test Center in the middle Mojave desert. It had a doozy of an
antenna test range...for battleships and smaller...scale metal
models, of course, on a huge turntable...enabled scale testing of
HF antenna patterns on various ships.

There are three actual, water-filled lakes in the Mojave. Don't know
if they have lifeguards there, though. :-) [manmade] There's at
least one swimming pool at the Edwards AFB Flight Test Center
complex in the northern Mojave. Haven't been in that but I suppose
there's a "regulation" life guard on duty when it is open. I've only
been on the Edwards flight line, some shops, some offices there.

Sad to say for Kellie's Windbag Denigration, some of my work did
indeed fly as actual hardware...including from Kern County Airport
#7 at the northern end of the Mojave. "Mojave International" as it
is jokingly known in local aerospace circles is also the home of
Scaled Composites, Burt Rutan's company which got in the news
lately with the first flight (for prize purposes) of SpaceShipOne.

Kellie, best get your water wings on if you want to come out to
where the aerospace action is in the USA. Call ahead and you
can ask for a lifeguard on duty. You will need it more than your
windbaggery substitute for water wings. :-)