Leo wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 02:34:17 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 27 Jun 2005 19:12:17 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 27 Jun 2005 09:59:04 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 26 Jun 2005 18:08:19 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 26 Jun 2005 11:19:31 -0700, wrote:
snip
Why can't you just clearly and plainly state what you
suggest that I do?
I have - many, many times.
You just keep writing that I must decide. But
you do not state concrete actions that the
decision will produce.
Option 1 or Option 2.
Those are not concrete actions.
To, Sir, they are quite obviously not.
They are choices!
Decision is a concrete action.
In this case, your decision.
Your action.
You must decide!
You must decide.
You must.
You sound like the chimes of Big Ben.
When text is displayed upon a monitor, or uopn a page, does it make a sound?
Most assuredly not.
Tinnitus, perhaps? 
You missed the reference completely, then.
What *do* you suggest? Just speak plainly rather than
answering a question with another question, or a zinger.
What's your suggestion?
The way I see it, you have two options:
1. Continue to be suckered in to foolish arguments.
2. Do not continue to be suckered in to foolish arguments.
OK so far.
Glad to hear it!
So far, so good.
Option 1 is expensive - you become a possession of those who goad you
in to responding. A puppet, as it were, dancing at the end of someone's strings....
That's called trolling. You're saying I should not respond to Len's
trolls. In other words, you suggest that I shut up. But you can't bring
yourself to write clearly and plainly, choosing to gussy up your words
with psychobabble.
What you fail to notice is that Len dances at the ends of others'
strings far more. And that while I write the truth, he inserts mistakes
(intentional or otherwise) to bait others into responding.
Look at the number of posts I have made in this thread. Or other
threads. Compare to the number made in response to me.
There's also the organ grinder's red-hatted monkey who will do almost
anything for attention. Including misquotes of others.
Now you'll say that's not the point. And perhaps in your fantasy, it
isn't.
Please try to stay focussed.
The word is spelled "focused".
Everything is not about Len.
That is correct!
Does he possess you so completely that your world revolves
around him?
No one "possesses" me, Leo.
Break free.
Decide.
Why?
That's your spin on it - does not address what actions you
suggest *I* take.
That is your current reality.
That's your soft-science psychobabble spin, then. ;-)
Not at all.
I have decided that it is. Simple as A, B and C
Not at all.
Think harder.
Use your education.
And focus.
There are only two choices available to you.
Says who?
A and B. Option 1 - or Option 2.
There is no C.
There's always a C.
Option 2 is much more difficult than Option 1
For you, maybe.
Not at all.
- it requires the
intelligence to recognize a legitimate argument from bait,
and
considerable inner strength to resist the drive to respond,
even when you know you are in the right.
"resist the drive to respond, even when you know you are in the right"
= shut up.
That is quite an oversimplification, Jim.
How, Leo?
If I respond to Len in any way, you say I have taken Option 1.
Therefore the only way to take Option 2 is for me to shut up.
All your blathering psychobabble comes down to your trying to tell me
to shut up without using those words.
Resisting the temptation to be suckered in to responding to a
post
designed with the intent of making you jump would require the
discipline of refusing to respond, and the wisdom to recognize the need..
Which is what I do, most of the time. Just not all of the time. To
satisfy your criteria for Option 2, I'd have to pretty much stop
posting here.
In fact, it seems to me that perhaps *you* are posting here with the
intent of making me "jump"....
Do you have that discipline, Jim? The wisdom?
Sure. Do you?
Can you resist the temptation to respond? Do you possess the
inner strength?
Not so far.
Not in the past - but perhaps in future. Perhaps today!
Decide - Owned or Free.
Polish - or Avoid.
I'm not Polish.
That's what you're telling me to do.
You could just be clear about it. But that's not your way.
It cannot be simplified any further, Jim.
Sure it can: the two words "shut up"
Owned - or Free.
Speak out - or Shut Up.
That's what it means.
Decide.
You're begging the question, Leo.
I am begging the answer.
Decide!
This is your potential future reality.
Many Happy Returns
Focus, Jim.
You really should get out more, Leo.
Option 1. Or Option 2.
Continue - or Change.
So what do you suggest *I* do?
Decide!
Actions, Leo.
Um - decision is an action.
Decide!
Owned or free.
Yet you quote Caine and the stuff about a man not being silent.
(Forgetting for a moment that Caine was a make-believe person
in a TV
show rife with pseudo-wise Eastern philosophical sayings...)
That quote did not apply to your situation.
Why not?
It referenced 'wrong' in more of a human sense - i.e. someone
doing
'wrong' to others.
Intentional misstatement does wrong to others.
Intervening - i.e. 'correcting the wrong', was to
stop the actions of the perpetrator of said wrong, thereby protecting
the perpetrator (bu getting suckered every time) and the victim (of
the resultant bashing). Caine could not help you - he would be too
confused.
What was Caine's callsign?
Your current situation requires a different metaphor:
"A man walking along discovers a turd in the middle of his
path. What should he do?
If he is wise, he would step around it and go along his way. But, if
he should pick it up and begin polishing it, in the expectation that
it would somehow gain value as a result of his effort, he would be
quite foolish indeed."
So you're saying that the posts of Len and some others here are turds.
I think you have a point there!
Polish - or Avoid.
Option 1 - or Option 2.
You must decide!
That's your spin.
That's your opinion.
Fact.
Owned or free - Decide!
Owned - or free.
You must decide.
Why?
You must.
Says who?
There is no option.
There's always an option.
If you continue on the current path, then you have chosen
Option 1.
Things continue as they are.
You remain owned.
If you elect to change, then you have chosen Option 2.
You become free.
You must decide!
Speak - or shut up.
That's the choice you give me.
The path you choose will be entirely up to you.
So there *is* a choice!
There is always a choice.
Odd to hear from someone who told me I could not stop
myself.
Hopefully I was incorrect.
Decide!
Yours to make if your are able to do so,
Ah - now there's a condition!
Which only you can overcome.
You want me to shut up. That is clear. You dress it up in fancy
terms but that's what it comes down to.
Do you possess the discipline which you will require in order
to avoid
responding to each and every taunt and tease posted to annoy
you?
I already have demonstrated that, Leo. Do you see me responding to
"each and every taunt and tease"?
Yes or no?
Do you possess the wisdom to see things as they are, and
recognize a need for change?
You mean to shut up?
I see little evidence so far - but there is hope.
Look within. Think.
And Decide!
You sure are fixated on that stuff, Leo.
--
Psychotics build castles in the air
Neurotics live in them
Shrinks collect the rent
--
Decide!
You must decide!
Why?
You must.
No, I don't.
There is no choice. Continue - or Change.
You must decide!
I've decided you want to be the landlord.
Free For All.
Choose wisely!
Wise by whose standards?
We'll all see the answer to that one soon enough - when you
decide!
How will you know what is decided?
That is the simplest task of all.
Should you choose Option 2, it will be immediately apparent to all.
Translation: shut up!
Should you continue down the current path, then you have chosen to
remail with Option 1. Equally apparent to all.
You must decide!
Option 1 - Speak out against incorrect information (even though it's
probably a troll)
Correct.
Option 2 - Shut up
Oversimplification, as discussed above.
How is it an oversimplification? How else would Option 2 be chosen?
What other evidence would convince you that I chose Option 2?
How would such a choice be demonstrated in concrete, practical terms?
Hmmm - you read the two options, right?
Just can't make yourself spell them out, I see.
That would require Leo to be responsible..
That would relieve you of your requirement to think.
I'm simply asking for a definite criteria. You won't provide it,
because you know that Option 2 = shut up
Is there a way I could choose Option 2 and not shut up? If so, the two
are not the same. If not, the two are essentially the same thing.
The options have been spelled out quite clearly above.
Option 1. Status Quo. Owned.
= Speak out against incorrect information
Correct.
So far so good.
And Option 2. Change. Free.
= Shut up
Oversimplification, as discussed above.
What other alternative exists, Leo? The opposite of
"Speak out against incorrect information"
is
"Do not speak out against incorrect information"
What actions do you suggest?
Decide! Only you can make this decision - you're on your own
now.
You have not offered the requested information. Seems to me that
when you speak of "abuse" and "control" and "goading", you're
really talking about yourself, not Len.
Decide!
Perhaps you are talking about yourself *and* Len.
Focus. Everything is not about Len.
Of course not. This part is about your unwillingness to be honest.
Suppose you are correct, and Len's purpose is to
Focus. Everything is not about Len.
And try to start what you finish.
Or perhaps you and he are one and the same.
Not at all!
If you *were*, that's how you'd respond.
If you *weren't*, that's how you'd respond.
Hmmm - now that's a Masters - level analysis of the issue.
Thanks for narrowing this one down for us, Jim!
You soft-science types fall apart when concrete reality comes along
;-)
Good luck!
Be seeing you.
Um - shouldn't that be BCNU?
No. You don't get the reference, I see. Pity.
I ignored it. This is a serious matter.
To whom?
Not TV.
And hold on to that pity - you may well be in need of it.
When you decide.
73 de Jim, N2EY
44, Leo
"I am not a number! I am a free man"
Well, no.
At the moment, you are at a crossroads.
To be free, you must decide.
Status quo - or change.
Speak out - or shut up.
44, Leo
Who is #1?