RadioBanter - View Single Post - 05-235

November 21st 05, 04:57 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Nov 20, 5:45 pm

wrote:
wrote:
From: on Wed 16 Nov 2005 19:09
wrote:
From: "Bill Sohl" on Wed 16 Nov 2005 08:35
wrote in message
an old friend wrote:
wrote:
Bill Sohl wrote:

That's right. Unlike you, I'm not on a mission to recreate the great
American novel.

No? You would be GREAT as a character like Snidely
Whiplash or the Iceman (from Batman 2nd movie).

Snidely Whiplash is a character from American literature?

Before Restructuring took effect in 2000, the Extra code test
rate was 20 WPM. Why? Because the older-timers influencing
the NAAR lobbyists thought they were hot snit for amateur
radio because so many had been professional telegraphers.
I don't think you have the story.

Yes I do in the form of Volume 5 of the Title 47 Code of Federal
Regulations. In part 97 it definitely required all Amateur
Extras to pass a TWENTY word per minute code test.

Please quote the part stating that older-timers influencing the NAAR
lobbyists thought they were hot snit for amateur radio because so many
had been professional telegraphers.

It was a way of keeping the old pro status past retirement.

Since they were already skilled in telegraphy, they got a free
set of perquisites in a HOBBY activity.

That's incorrect, Leonard. The Extra Class ticket was available before
Incentive Licensing. At that time, it offered no additional privileges
at all. It was never available for just passing a higher speed morse
exam. Your story is still full of holes.

No holes according to a very OFFICIAL Volume of Title 47 printed
by the U.S. Government Printing Office and sold through their
branch stores 8 years ago. Allocations per class showed that
Extras got lotsa perquisites.

I thought I just explained this. I was licensed in 1963. The Extra
Class license was available in that year (and in subsequent years
leading up to Incentive Licensing) but no additional privileges were
attached. One could obtain the very same privileges with a General
Class ticket. You claim that former professional telegraphers lobbied
to have the Extra Class created so they'd have a "free set of
perquisites". That claim doesn't hold water. To obtain the Extra Class
license, one had to pass a more difficult written exam as well as
passing a more difficult morse exam. More privileges were granted after
Incentive Licensing was phased in over a two-year period. The FCC
implemented Incentive Licensing. Are you familiar with the word
"incentive"?

Wanna argue with U.S. government agencies? Go ahead. I ain't
them.

I'm well aware of that, though you seem to forget from time to time.

Call up Dubya and let him know about those "holes."
Maybe Rove and Libby can fill them...?

Why would they care about your wild fabrications?

Kindly prove that the old Amateur Extra was less difficult than the old
First Phone.

Heil, quit being the snotty lil kid trying to turn tables.

What were you attempting by posing your question to Jim? Were you being
a snotty little kid, trying to turn the tables?

Tsk, you two are becoming indistinguishable. :-)

He lives in Pennsylvania. He signs his posts "Jim N2EY". I live in
West Virginia. I sign my posts "Dave K8MN".

I took the 1956 Commercial First Phone test and passed. I saw
a 1957 Extra test and it wasn't as difficult at the First Phone.

How'd you manage to see the exam?

Now some reel expert gooroos say that ham license tests are
now "dumbed down." Bayoo Broose he say dat many times. Many
others do.

....and the First Phone is no longer offered. Your point?

I took all the test elements for the Amateur Extra in 1977. I saw the
test elements for the First Phone of that time. I disagree with your
statement.

You disagree with ANY statement I make, senior.

You keep plugging away and posting. There might be something from you
with which I find myself in agreement.

After all, does not all radio operate under the same physics.

Absolutely. But...the REGULATIONS, you know, the ones
made by humans in federal agencies, do NOT AFFECT electrons,
fields, and waves.

Then why all the bafflegab about more EM spectrum, yada, yada, yada?

After all, obtaining a First Phone wasn't rocket science.

Tsk, I've never said that. However, I did work at a place
where REAL ROCKET SCIENCE was used in practice, out in
Canoga Park, CA, at Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell
International. [Boeing bought that division from Rockwell
and Rockwell owns Collins Radio... :-) ]

Why don't Heil/Miccolis tell us all about "rocket science?"

:-)

Irrelevant. :-)

About the slower 5 wpm code speed in place for today's Extra Class
license, Len wrote:

The statement still holds. In order to get an Extra ham
grant, every applicant has to pass BOTH the telegraphy
and written tests.

Of course it still holds. The test is just much, much easier to pass.
Unlike your original statement, one does not obtain an Extra Class
ticket simply by passing a morse exam.

So, you almost concede that I was right...there are TWO parts
of the Extra exam: Manual telegraphy and written. In order to
obtain an Extra class license grant one must pass BOTH.

I concede that you were almost right. Your claim about old time
operators lobbying for extra perks by dreaming up a higher speed code
exam is still bogus. No one ever obtained an Amateur Extra without
passing a more difficult written exam. I wrote that part. You didn't.
It looks like you've almost conceded that I was right. :-)

I was right but you can't get up the courage to say I was.

Courage isn't involved, Len. You initial claim was and is bogus.

My slow words were much bigger than the fast words.

? What in the world are you trying to say...?!?

Maybe if you didn't snip out the relevant portions, you'd be able to
follow along.

When it comes to amateur radio, Len, I am superior to you.

When it comes to ALL radio, you are definitely NOT.

That hasn't been established. That depends what we're discussing. I
have far more HF radio operations experience than you, and at a far
earlier age. I likely know quite a bit more about antennas and HF
propagation than you. It is also likely that I have far more VHF/UHF
operations experience though I lack the experience in some exotic modes
you've mentioned. I have no doubt that you have the edge in electronics
theory.

When it comes to sociopathy, you are superior to me in that.

Don't ever sell yourself short, Len. Your large r.r.a.p. body of work
is resplendent with examples.

I have an amateur radio license. You do not.

Do you want to go nyah-nyah on ALL licenses?!?

BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I passed all the exams which were available. You did not.

I passed all the exams (in one sitting) for a First Phone.
If I had not, the FCC would not have granted me that license.

Irrelevant. That has nothing to do with amateur radio.

I have 42 years of experience as a radio amateur. You do not.

Ech. I have 52 years of experience in PROFESSIONAL radio.

That isn't amateur radio.

If you want to play "Twenty Questions," go get the game
from Parker Brothers. Tell them you've had 42 years of
experience as a radio amateur.

BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You act like a guy who is losing his grip, Len.

"It ain't braggin' if ya done it." [Miccolis' misquote of Dizzy
Dean] I did them. Not brags.
Amateur Radio: You ain't done it.

Sorry, but I have. :-)

Sorry, you have not. :-)

It isn't obvious at all. You are neither in amateur radio nor
(according to your most recent statement on the subject) desirous of
obtaining a license.

Tsk, I have three essential licenses in life...plus that
First Phone which was much later converted to a General
Radiotelephone. [that makes four, you don't need the
fingers on your other hand to count]

In other words, you don't have an amateur radio license.

If I want to add an amateur radio license at some later time,
I will.

You might.

I may not want to later.

You're waffling again.

That is MY choice.

Partly. It would be seen as more possible for you if that dratted code
test were to be removed.

[that
makes five but the amateur license is not what I would call
essential to life existance]

[ ) ?

I've been a hobbyist in radio-electronics since 1947...

That isn't amateur radio.

YES, it IS. You fail to note "licensed" as a prefix to your
use of "amateur radio."

Mere semantics, Len. You aren't a radio amateur.

There has been a code-free amateur license available to you since 1991.

No kidding? FCC 90-53 was made into an R&O!

Sunnuvagun!

Yep. That represents fourteen years of inertia for you.

You have not even attempted to pass an exam for that license.

True enough...but you SHOULD say that I never made any
appointment with either the FCC or the VEC to take any
amateur radio test of any class.

Consider it said.

I have the option to do so or not to do so. The Internet
does not require any amateur radio license.

Precisely. The internet is what you do. Watching TV is what you do.
Haunting an amateur radio newsgroup is what you do.

Of course you have the option to take an amateur radio license exam or
not. Passing one is another matter.

Only control-
freak bigots like yourself require amateur licenses to
participate.

Actually to participate in amateur radio, the FCC requires you to obtain
a license. I'll try harder in future to become less bigoted toward
control freaks.

Speaking of that, Mr. Control-freak, why aren't you on the
case of all those anony-mousies who have polluted this
newsgroup and made foul stenches for the last year?

What are you doing about it? After all, you post here. Why don't you
tell us what can be done about such people, especially when they misuse
anonymous remailers. When they're bounced from one, they typically just
find another. Give us your professional advice.

What have you accomplished THERE in your self-righteous
attitude of "ethnic purity" in this newsgroup?

Does this mean you support the filth mongers right to foul the
newsgroup? I'm sure you've written a lengthy position paper on the
matter. Let me have your ideas. Maybe I can come up with some useful
tactics based from your efforts in the area.

I can tell that you haven't taught English. If you had, you'd have
noted the obvious discrepancy in what you originally wrote about the
English teacher (above), "who said out-right in her Comment that she is
neither into amateur radio nor desirous of obtaining a license". Now
you've changed it to "claimed no INTEREST and NO EXPERIENCE in radio".
The two statements are very, very different. You're squirming.

Ohm my, isn't the control-freak wigging-out on English
semantics, word structure, etc., etc.!!!

You've made some rather obvious errors. One of them appears to be a
deliberate effort to make it sound as if you'd written something
different.

You cannot comment on the GIST of the Comment by that female
but you wish to go to word-war over my choice of English in
rewriting something?!? That is truly pathetic and weak.

No it is neither pathetic nor weak. The person who writes of "the
control-freak wigging-out on English semantics, word structure, etc.,
ectc.!!!" seems rather pathetic and weak. What you offered initially
isn't what you later presented. The two statements are quite different
in key respects.

YOU show ME your English teaching credentials in order to be
the "judge" of proper language.

Quit making demands, Len.

YOU show ME where you've spent time as an Editor at any
publication where language skills are a must. I've done
that YOU have NOT.

If you've done it, you can't have been very good at it. Quit making
demands.

YOU show ME all the articles you've sold, sight-unseen to
editors since 1969.

Go look for them. There are a number of them. What role does this
"sight-unseen" stuff play?

Yeah? You aren't involved and you are against morse testing. So?
Looks like you've encountered a dilemma.

"Dave Dilemma," control-freak. It has a name! :-)

There you go again. :-) :-)

I'd compare you to some other biased anti-morse test individual, but
there doesn't seem to be anyone but you.

There's been one recently. I made a Reply to Comments supporting
him and adding to what he said. Go look it up. To make it easy
on you, old grouchy man of no mountain, you will not have to look
back far on WT Docket 05-235.

I've made no attempt at controlling your posting, Len.

Untrue. Constant heckling of any NCTA that you do is a form
of control.

Heckling does not prevent you from posting. You cannot prevent jeers or
laughter. Your First Amendment rights permit your free speech. You are
not guaranteed a warm reception nor are you granted credibility.

It is a rather weak control and yours just doesn't work.

It seems to eat at you.

Now what are you going to do?

I'm going to do as I please, Len.

Repeating the same tired, trite personal insults against
others is a FAILURE. Don't you realize that?

Don't you? :-) :-) :-) :-)

Done that for several years. No problems. Where references
were needed and known available for facts, those were listed.
Where references were needed but not easily available, I've
included copies for the Editors in Chief. I've had no nasty
notes from any of them on that.

Send 'em a few samples.

Done long ago. That's how I got my invitation to submit
manuscripts.

Maybe you could include your reply to the comments of Mr. Rightsell.

Whatever for?!?

Why, you'd show them that you know how to do "STRONG formal commentary".

What is with your "thing" about Rightsell? Is he your bosom
buddie? A boy-friend?

Maybe you forgot. He's the guy you attacked in reply comments.

You haven't said dink about my OTHER Replies to Comments.

No, I haven't.

I've been here for a long time, posting from three different countries,
Leonard.

As Super Chicken was told, "you knew
the job was dangerous when you took it."

Super Chicken? Who the hell is Super Chicken?

A cartoon character. On TV and with some cinema as short
subjects.

You probably didn't see that cartoon series in all those
"different countries." :-)

No, I probably didn't.

Tsk, you've not taken enough time to ENJOY things... :-)

I can visualize being asked, "would you like to have a meal out and
visit the art museum or would you rather hit the theater for the Super
Chicken film festival"?

Of course, being such a "comic," you might be annoyed by
other comedy. shrug

I'm sure that Super Chicken is a real knee-slapper. Does he write his
own material?

Dave K8MN