RadioBanter - View Single Post - 05-235

December 1st 05, 12:33 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

wrote:
From: Bill Sohl on Nov 30, 5:35 am
wrote in message
wrote:
On 29 Nov 2005 14:53:19 -0800, wrote:
Bill Sohl wrote:
"an old friend" wrote in message
wrote:
wrote:

By the way, Docket 98-143 had 303 ADDITIONAL filings after
the twice-revised final end date of 15 Jan 05, the latest
being made on 5 August 2005! :-)

Why does that matter?

It serves to indicate that there are some (allegedly "qualified")
radio amateurs who cannot keep up with basic law and regulations.

Where in Part 97 does it say that anyone cannot comment outside
the deadline dates?

You've pointed out how many comments FCC received *before* the
official date....

FCC 99-412 R&O (Memorandum Report and Order) was issued in late
December 1999 establishing the "Restructuring" of U. S. radio
amateur regulations to take effect in mid-2000. Comments on
Wireless Telecommunications Bureau Docket 98-143 are superfluous
to both the public and the Commission AFTER an R&O has established
the NEW regulations. There can be no question that "comments"
made in August 2005 on any issue that was settled 5 years prior
are superfluous and irrelevant to the Docket subject.

Of course! But that's not the issue.

becuase it isn't suposed to happen at least if it does they are all
suposed to have been mailed before the deadline
why does it seem you don't care about the
rule of of law when it suits you

There's no violation of law if someone sends in a late comment.

sure is

There's a violation of law if someone sends in a late comment??
What law is violated if someone sends in a comment after the
deadline?

Jim is right.

No, only disingenuous.

No, I'm right.

Phil Kane ought to jump in here and
explain the process on proceedings, "sunschine laws" and the
like. Some Dockets visible on the ECFS have rather bold red
notices included about what the Commission staff can CONSIDER
insofar as reaching a decision on any Docket subject. That is
law insofar as the Commission has decided for itself.

Not the point.

I wrote:

"There's no violation of law if someone sends in a late comment."

And Mark replied:

"sure is"

Is there a violation of law if someone sends in a late comment?

Anyone can send the FCC comments, messages, etc at anytime.

True, but only because the Commission leaves the ECFS and
Secretary's incoming correspondence desk OPEN for several
reasons: Viewing by the public as an archive, most convenient
to the public unable to access the FCC Reading Room thousands
of miles away; supplemental information on the Docket subject
such as opening up a new Petition for change or revision by
the Commission of some part of a Docket subject at a later
date.

Of course. But that's not the point. Mark is saying the law is
violated if someone sends in a late comment.

The sending or submission of a comment outside
the comment period is NOT a violation of the law.

The one "charging" this "violation" first was Miccolis.

Nope. Not me.

Mark Morgan made that claim, not me.

Here, take another look:

Mark wrote:

"becuase it isn't suposed to happen at least if it does they are all
supposed to have been mailed before the deadline
why does it seem you don't care about the
rule of of law when it suits you"

and I wrote:

"There's no violation of law if someone sends in a late comment."

to which Mark replied:

"sure is"

Now, who made the claim? Sure wasn't anybody named "Miccolis"

There
is NO explicit "law" or regulation forbidding such filing after
a comment deadline date.

Mark says there is. I say there isn't.

However, as explained above, the
Commission staff is obliged to act on ITS OWN REGULATIONS
which have stated the "official" dates of comment filings.

And a whole bunch of nocodetest folks ignored those rules and
sent in comments before the official date....

The use of specific comment period dates serves as a convenience
for both the public and Commission. The Commission is required
to regulate many civil radio services and as a result has a
large number of tasks required by both Congressional Law and
its own regulations. Comment periods cannot be open-ended and
have any reasonable conclusion.

Not the point at all.

The only
violation of law that could be in play then is IF and only IF the
FCC accepted and integrated the comment into the FCC
proceedings...BUT, even then I suspect if anyone complained
that the courts would take a less than hard-line stand regarding
post deadline comments.

See Part 0, Title 47 C.F.R. See Communications Act of 1934.
See Telecommunications Act of 1996.

Comment period statements by the Commission are not "illegal"
but PROCEDURAL. Since the Commission has stated a Notice of
PROPOSED Rulemaking, it must - at some point - make a DECISION
on this proposed rulemaking. Ergo, it establishes a deadline
for comments from the public to give the Commission sufficient
time to reach a decision on this proposed rulemaking. That is
reasonable and logical for the Commission's purpose and task.

Also obvious. And beside the point completely.

Missing the deadline simply means FCC isn't required to consider
the comment.

it means the FCC SHOULD not and I think is legaly barred form
considering it

That's not the same as breaking a law.

There is NO SPECIFIC LAW in regards to comment date periods
being stated by the Commission. There IS its own regulation
(see Part 0) and the "sunshine law" precedents in regards to
what the Commission allows ITSELF to "see."

Tell Mark about it.

Of course the FCC could read a post deadline comment and
consider it in their braod internal review process and never
make reference to it in a follow-up R&O. Who outside
the FCC would even know?

The "barracks lawyers" who will endlessly "debate" some
decision/action by any agency, long past any reasonable
time of argument. :-)

There are some in here who "know" what the FCC is doing
even though they've never worked there.

Talking about yourself again....

the result was ripping the guts out of the ARS by killing the HS
clubs and making it rough to start one merely shows how
out of touch the ARRl was even then

How did incentive licensing affect highschool radio clubs?

I'm curious about that conclusion/result too.

There are over 9.700 club licenses in the FCC database right
now. Maybe they all graduated high school? :-)