RadioBanter - View Single Post - 05-235

December 14th 05, 12:09 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Dec 7, 5:28 pm
wrote:
From: Bill Sohl on Dec 6, 6:11 am
wrote in message

I'm not convinced that a "starting path" is necessary.

The alternative would be to eliminate all license classes except
the Amateur Extra, and require all new hams to meet all the
requirements of the Amateur Extra without any intermediate
steps.

The ONLY alternative? :-)

If you don't want to lower the written test requirements, yes.

Jim just got through posting that in 1936 the code speed was *increased
and the written exams made *more comprehensive for the three license
classes at the time. Later, all priveleges were granted to the
General class license.

From before 1936, until 1951, full amateur privileges in the USA
required a Class A license. (15 years including the WW2 shutdown)

From 1951 until 1953 full amateur privileges in the USA required an
Advanced or an Amateur Extra license. (2 years)

Did the General license convey the modes and power privs that the
Advanced and Extra licenses conveyed?

If "Yes," then "Arbitrary and Redundant."

From 1953 until 1968 full amateur privileges in the USA required a
Conditional, General, Advanced or Amateur Extra license. (15 years)

(the requirements for full privileges were lowered in early 1953)

From 1968 until the present time, full amateur privileges in the USA
have required an Amateur Extra license. (37 years)

Did the General and Advanced licenses convey the modes and power privs
that the Extra license conveyed?

If "Yes," then "Arbitrary and Redundant."

Then they were taken away.

37 years ago. I lost privileges. You and Len did not.

The entire USA amateur service lost in a big way, but you find a way to
personalize it.

Now, one license class with the equivalent of the General Class exam is
"lowering the requirements."

Yes, it would be.

Does the Advanced and Extra licenses convey the modes and power privs
that the General license conveyed?

If "Yes," then "Arbitrary and Redundant."

Why does one have to "upgrade" through license
classes?

One doesn't. Anyone can "go for the Extra right out of the box".
You haven't.

One doesn't have to upgrade at all. At one time the General conveyed
all amateur priveleges, and few amateurs tested higher.

And FCC was convinced that wasn't a good thing. FCC is still convinced
of the need for at least 3 license classes.

Yeh, yeh, yeh. Using the same logic, if the FCC were conviced that a
Morse Code exam were still a good idea, they would have a specification
for Morse Code in the regulations.

Just because no one at the FCC is paying attention doesn't mean that
the present rules are worthwhile.

You might want to read the current NPRM. Pay particular attention to
footnote 142...

Asleep at the wheel.

Then the FCC
implemented the Incentive Licensing System which you loved, took away
priveleges, and the rest is history. Now you say that going back to
all priveleges for the General exam is lowering requirements.

And it would be. The standards were reduced in the Great Giveaway of
1953.
You want a repeat of that.

Presently, every mode and every power limit privilege is permitted to
General, Advanced, and Extra licensee. That means that the Advanced
and Extra exams are arbitrary and redundant.

You need to have REAL distinctions is Testing Material VS Priveleges
between the license classes.

Those distinctions do not presently exist.

The knowledge and skill required to operate 1,500 watts of CW at 14.024
is EXACTLY the same knowledge and skill required to operate 1,500 watts
at 14.026

If "Yes," then "Arbitrary and Redundant."

Some years back, QCWA proposed to FCC that all hams who had held
a General, Conditional or Advanced before the changes took place in
1968
should get an automatic upgrade to Extra because they lost privileges
then.
FCC said no way.

Some years back, the ARRL wanted to keep 13 and 20wpm code exams.

FCC said no way.

Sorry you feel that way.

Why?

Is the 50 question Extra written exam too difficult?

With you, it's all about making entry difficult.

If there were only ONE license, there would be no
"upgrading" via licenses, would there?

Right.

And if there were only one license, regardless of
what it would be called, its test(s) would
have to contain everything that is now contained in
the three written tests for the Amateur Extra.
Otherwise the standards would be reduced.

No, it wouldn't. Strawman.

If you're willing to reduce the standards, the testing
could be reduced. It's clear that's no problem for
you.

You think I want a 49 question exam? Hi!

BTW, many of the exams are 49 or 48 or 47 questions because of the bad
questions presently in the QP.

The General License used to convey ALL AMATEUR PRIVELEGES.

That ended 37 years ago. Why do you live in the past?

You're funny, Jim.

Would you like to go back to the General test of 1968? Testing
at FCC offices only unless you lived more then 175 miles from
an exam point, no CSCEs, no published question pools, 30
day wait to retest. Oh yes, and 13 wpm code, sending and
receiving.

It's always an ultimatum strawman with you, isn't it?

Sorry, but no one proclaimed you King Jim of Amateur Radiodom.

Use the present VE system, 50 question exam (or 49 questions if you
must), no code test.

Thanks for playing.

So what you propose is that all new amateurs would
have to pass the equivalent of all the written tests
for the Amateur Extra all at once, just to get an
amateur radio license.

Is that what you want?

You're the one who loved the Incentive Licensing System which took
priveleges away from fully qualified amateurs.

Who said I "loved" it?

You have defended Incentive Licensing against every challenger.

You're the one who
loves unnecessary licensing requirements.

none of the license requirements I support are
"unnecessary".

General exam earns all legal modes and all legal power.

Advance exam earns all legal modes and all legal power.

Extra exam earns all legal modes and all legal power.

The Advanced and Extra exams and the Advanced and Extra license classes
are ARBITRARY and REDUNDANT.

You're the one who supports lowering the standards
again and again.

That is merely your jaundiced opinion.

--

So let's see what you're proposing:

- Full amateur privileges for the testing of a General license,
without any code test.

- All existing Generals, Advanceds, and Extras get full
privileges. Some Technicians and Technician Pluses
who passed the Tech written when it was same as
General get full privileges too.

Two questions:

What happens to existing Novices and Technicians who
haven't passed the General written?

What happens to them now???

FCC has repeatedly refused free (no-test) upgrades.

So?

FCC has said that the optimum system for the
future is a 3 level system, but that they'll keep the
closed-out classes until they disappear by attrition.

So?

How will you convince them to do otherwise?

I don't intend to convince the FCC to give free upgrades. I don't
intend to convince the FCC to accept one class of license. I don't
intend to convince the FCC to do anything other than keep closed-out
classes until they disappear by attrition.

I -expect- good government.

I -expect- the FCC to eliminate arbitrary and redundant licensing
requirements and license classes.

The FCC looks foolish for not having dealt with these issues already.

If "Yes," then "Arbitrary and Redundant."