RadioBanter - View Single Post - 05-235

December 19th 05, 02:07 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: on Thurs, Dec 15 2005 4:14 am

wrote:
From: on Dec 13, 7:32 pm
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Dec 7, 5:28 pm
wrote:
From: Bill Sohl on Dec 6, 6:11 am
wrote in message
The starting path under discussion was the path to an amateur radio
license. You haven't taken the first step on that path.
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single
step"...some ancient Chinese proverb, I suppose.
Lao Tzu.

Any relation to Zack Lao?

I found some Chinese proverbs which seem quite fitting to your role he

"A crane is too obvious when it stands among a flock of chickens and
looks very awkward. It is also true with a camel amidst a flock of sheep
and a flea when it stands on top of a hairless head. They all carry a
pejoritary tone: the thing that outstands others is something awkward if
not necessarily bad."

You are the crane, the camel or the flea.

You are the chicken, the sheep or the hairless head?

Thought you'd never ask! Amateur radio is the chicken, the sheep or the
hairless head.

"There is an argument between a bird who stopped to drank at a well and
a frog therein. They were arguing about how the sky looked like.
Regarding where they were, they each had a different view. The frog's
vision was of course very limited. Therefore, this proverb refers to
somebody who has a very narrow-minded and insulated view of what they
see or what they think."

You are the frog.

The frog gives the bird.

....his view of the sky and the bird just grins 'cuz he knows that the
sky is much larger.

I obtained a COMMERCIAL radio operator license 49 years ago.
First Class, one test, no repeats necessary.
Yeah? So?

One exam to run a 100,000 watt transmitter? What would Jim say?

Limited privileges.

WHY was it "required" that I obtain an amateur license?
Who ever told you that it was?

It isn't, but the way you and Jim needle Len about getting one...

....is unrelated to the fact.

Was it necessary to punish amateurs?

Who was "punished"?

You tell us. You are the one into the dominatrix role.

No, *you* need to tell us. You wrote of amateur radio ops being
punished over incentive licensing. Back up your claim.

I asked about amateurs being punished. Jim said he lost privileges.
He was no longer in the privileged class.

It effected me directly. I was not punished in any way.

but you find a way to personalize it.
The rules changes of 1968 and 1969 affected me at the time.
They affected everyone after you as well.
They did not affect you and they did not affect Len.
You're simply wrong on that one, Quitefine.
Lots of us radio pros without amateur licenses just didn't bother
to get an amateur license...not necessarily as a result of
"changes of 1968 or 1969."
That's fine, Len. Nobody says you have to get ana amateur radio
license.
"Ana amateur radio license?"

Ah, but YOU already said I had some kind of moral imperative
to get an amateur radio license. Hypocrite.

No one has told you anything of the kind. That's another of your
factual errors.

Then we will hear no more from you and Jim about Len not having one,
right?

I wouldn't bank on it.

But it does seem a bit odd that you're expending so much
time and energy on the requirements for a license you aren't
going to get...

"Not going to get?" Who said that...besides YOU?

Why, *you* said it.

Why did he say it?

Why not ask him?

I'm just wanting the morse code test for an amateur radio
license eliminated.

That's at least the third version you've told here. Previously, you've
waffled between the other two--that you were going to get the "Extra
right out of the box or that you weren't going to obtain an amateur
radio license.

Can't a person want more than one thing? Is Dave putting limits on
what people can want?

He could have gotten away with it until recently. It is difficult to
talk out of three sides of your mouth, so that's going to slow him up.

Why are YOU "spending so much time and energy" trying to
throw **** on all of those desiring that test element 1
deletion?
Doing what?

That voodoo that you do.

Len certainly never gets more than he has delivered and he receives far
less that he has earned.

What are you afraid of? Loss of your personal status,
title, and privileges?
What are you afraid of, Len? That radio amateurs won't show you the
respect which you feel is your due?

That has certainly been the case on rrap.

That Len feels that he is owed some respect for his past military radio
days or his professional radio work? Life is tough all over.

That you won't get into amateur
radio before you're past your expiration date?

Len has an expiration date? What is it?

We may or may not ever know. If his postings stop suddenly, that may be
a clue.

What the heck, I'd already started
15 and 14 years before in HF comms where the operating
environment was a HELLUVA LOT TOUGHER on all concerned than any
amateur activity.

How was it "a HELLUVA LOT TOUGHER", Len? I saw your "My 3 Years" thing.
The amateur radio service does not require its licensees to
wage war and kill the enemy.

Did you wage war or kill an enemy?

He put himself in the pool of combattants. After that he followed
orders.

"Combatants" He put himself in the pool? Do you write for the DNC?
I did didn't ask anything about whether he put himself in a pool.

The military "field days" were not little outings in a park
once a year.

Did you ever participate in a military "field day"?

He put himself in the pool of combattants. After that he followed
orders.

"Combatants"

I didn't ask anything about putting himself in a pool. Actually he put
himself into the U.S. Army, some members of which were combatants.

Amateur radio doesn't operate in an environment of high
explosive ordinance going off nearby.

Did you operate in an environment of high explosive ordinance going off
nearby?

He put himself in the pool of combattants. After that he followed
orders.

"Combatants"

I don't believe that Len was ever a combatant. He was a soldier.

What did Jim do? Did he excuse himelf? Was he unfit to serve?

Why are you asking me?

And why all the comparisons? You seem to feel a need to prove that you
had it "TOUGHER" than anybody else.....

To use a quaint and traditional military phrase, "****in-A!"

Then I suppose you're disappointed that you're efforts toward proving it
have fallen a little short.

One hundred seventy five miles uphill both ways to the FCC examiners
office. In the snow.

All civilians went to the FCC examiners to be tested? Really?

Yes, sweetums, I - and every other military person - had it
TOUGHER than you civilians safe at home.

Really? How tough was the rear area life in Japan, Len? I don't recall
my military service as having been very TOUGH.

Must have been why you got out so quickly.

I gave four years of my life. Is that enough to suit you? Is it okay
that I moved on to other things that I wanted to do?

Problem is, Jimmie doesn't think that others can think differently
so he doesn't think about the thousands of newcomers who MIGHT want
to get into amateur radio.

Len, I don't have any problem thinking others can think differently.
That doesn't mean I must agree with them.

Then why does your lofty highness insist all MUST agree
with YOUR opinions?

What's with your schtick here, Leonard? Your posts seem to indicate
that you believe that all MUST agree with YOUR opinions.

It would be nice that once someone rejects an opinion that they say
why.

Those have been provided often. Haven't you been reading along?

Saying that Len doesn't hold an amateur license is not a good reason
to reject Len's opinions wrt the ARS.

Len has no background or experience to make him a credible source of
what is good or bad for amateur radio. If I'm looking for information
on sailing, I don't seek it from a guy who has some friends who own
sailboats.

There's no specification for a lot of things in Part 97, yet there's no
problem.

Yes there is. License test regulations REQUIRE a code test for
any class having below-30-MHz operation privileges...BUT...the
FCC does not mandate all amateur USING morse code modes over
and above any other mode. All are optional.

Well now! Yessir, that presents a real dilemma, doesn't it. You should
be able to suck it up. After all, your military service was way TOUGHER
than this easy civilian stuff.

The regulations don't even define Morse Code let alone Farnsworth Code,
but the FCC can deny a license based upon an exam it can't define.

See, Brian, civilian life can be tough indeed. The Army told Len what
it wanted, how it wanted it done and how long it expected him to work at
it each day. It told him where and when to show up for meals and showed
him where his bed was. There was nobody shooting at him. I suppose he
could have suffered a hangnail or he could have spilled hot coffee in
his lap. Yet this grizzled veteran has told us all about his irrelevant
(to amateur radio) stories of his "big time" radio work in the military
on countless occasions. Sorry, I liked K0HB's story of SUQ a lot
better. It entertains and it doesn't rankle.

There's been two whole years of 18 Petitions commented on at length
since the end of WRC-03 and now NPRM 05-143 which can settle the
morse code testing for a license issue.

Probably. But you won't be satisfied with that, despite your frequent
claims of only wanting to eliminate the Morse Code test.

Jimmie Noserve, GIVE UP trying to tell me "what I will do."

You don't have the authority nor the qualifications to be ME
nor judgemental on "what I will do."

We can only go by what you've written, Len.

You've written that you contacted out of band Frenchmen on 6m.

I surely did write that. I've never written that I was out of band
working French or any other stations anywhere, any time.

Why can't Technicians operate on 14.026? Why can't hams operate on
13.976?

And there you go with the ultimatums and strawmen.

Jimmie with newsgroup wordplay again. About this point, Hans will
jump in saying you are "simply mistaken" and babbling about how
the "IARU and ITU" are different or other semi-sweet non-sequitur.

Can't answer the questions, eh?

Jimmie, you present NO valid questions. Ergo, no valid answers
required.

The questions were valid enough. You just didn't answer them.

Why don't you answer them, Dave?

I'll wait for Len's answers.

You constantly bring up much older history ("My 3 Years") that doesn't
apply to anything NOW....

Tsk, tsk, tsk, that's an entirely different "discussion"
concerning overt LYING of military service by Dudly the
Imposter (aka "K4YZ").

Your tales precede your manufacturer of the term "Dudly the Imposter" by
quite some time.

"manufacture"

Thank you.

I brought up a VALID example some years ago on why the
majority of military communications worldwide was NOT done
by morse code mode since 1948...for the reason being that I
was assigned at a major Army communications station serving
a theater command Hq and stayed there for three years.

YOU have NEVER done anything approaching that. In fact, YOU
have NEVER served in any military service of the USA.

Naturally you would be upset about anyone else doing something
big and important in HF communications. TS.

That's funny. Jim knows what I've done in professional communications
and I've seen no indication that he has ever become upset over it. Then
again, I've never made it seem that what I did professionally carried
any weight in amateur radio.

Your "career" was your DXpedition meal ticket.

Why, so it was. I still found it necessary to do the assigned work. Do
you have a problem with how I used my free time?

For example, I think the ARRL made a big mistake not letting WK3C run for
Director of the Atlantic Division. That's *my* division, btw...

Is your Division mobilized and ready to ship out to fight
the War on Terror? Bon voyage.

Maybe they can just show up on r.r.a.p, read your posts and begin waging
the War on Error.

Steve's gonna hate a bunch of usurpers showing up here. No way he's
gonna let them edge him out. And so the war escalates.

Do you mean that the error team will just busy itself with intended and
unintended mistakes?

The change of zoning near your house did not remove any privileges from
you, did it, Len? It didn't make your taxes go up or require you to change
your house in any way, right?

Irrelevant to RADIO REGULATIONS. Local zoning laws have NOTHING
to do with federal radio regulations. Give it up.

Did you miss seeing the parallel to your actions in regard to amateur
radio? It was quite evident.

Amateur radio regulations are a subset of "RADIO REGULATIONS."

Wow! That point nearly hit you in the noggin as it zoomed right over you.

Or someone who tells a US Navy veteran to shove something up his I/O
port?

One military veteran can tell another military veteran lots
of things. Brakob, Burke, and myself are all military
veterans. YOU have NEVER been an military veteran.

I'm a military veteran. You've told me lots of things. I take offense
to some of them.

Ditto.

Len's been pulling the same thing with you?

Here's a quaint old military phrase given in the tradition
and sincerity of the military service: "Go **** yourself!"

That will take care of Saturday night for you...

You certainly write like a fellow who has lost an argument.

Maybe if he refreshes the screen...

....or if he regains his composure.

Dave K8MN