On Jun 14, 2:23 pm, art wrote:


Wrong......

There was a study in Australia where the earth's influence on a
horizontal
antenna showed where the earths influence disappeared rapidly. That
cannot be
said of a short vertical. If it was of full length ,as in dipole, I
suspect
the earth's influence would be the same as a horizontal antenna.
Note: horizontal and vertical referes to polarization not to physical
orientation of radiators

Well sure, but you can see noticable ground loss with really low
dipoles.
And the vertical examples I've talked about so far, are full size.
When I talk about dipoles suffering from ground loss, I'm talking
about
really low ones.. IE: a 160m dipole at 16 ft usually shows noticable
ground loss vs one at 125 ft, which would be a quarter wave up. Using
close up/down NVIS paths would be the best way to fairly compare..
Running a 160m dipole at 16 ft is like running a 10m dipole at 1 ft
off
the ground as far as height/wavelength... But, some people, due to
restrictions, end up running 160m dipoles at 15-20 ft up and live
with it.. Just cuz they make contacts doesn't mean there are no
ground losses lurking in the program.
MK