Need help... End-fed, long wire or ????
 

Hey, here's a question for you antenna heads..... I've googled and not found
much but a million opinions
and ideas on which is better so I thought I'd come here and lay out the
situation and get some advice.

I want to put an HF radio back in the house.

I only have a small yard and pesky neighbors.

I want to operate ham and MARS freqs.

I need to be somewhat incognito. A tower is out, and a big vertical is
questionable.
I don't like the radial issue as I live on solid rock, nor the price issues.

My only option is to go out back... zero yard but a hillside that is almost
limitless,
however; I live on top of a ridge so the hills all go downward. I'm assuming
a long wire in the treetops or similar is my only hope.
[very few trees are higher than my house up here, LOL]

SO... if you only had one direction to throw an antenna out, but could arrow
a 300 footer through the treetops if need be,
what would you do? Which style antenna would be best? Random or folded or ?
I'm assuming end-fed is my only option here, with only one direction to go.
[Southerly]

I'm considering a manual tuner in the shack, or auto-tuner like a marine
unit that I could remote in the attic and coax up to it then wire to
outside.

Is there a better way?? Ideas? Input?
thanks for the help!
Woody

Need help... End-fed, long wire or ????
 

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:14:51 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

SO... if you only had one direction to throw an antenna out, but could arrow
a 300 footer through the treetops if need be,
what would you do?

Hi Woody,

Go for it!

It's not like an act of desperation or anything like that. I had a
similar situation (although more options) with an ad-hoc hillside
longwire (same size, height, etc.). It worked like gang-busters.

Which style antenna would be best? Random or folded or ?

Just as you described it. Anything more convoluted is unlikely to
give you more performance.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Need help... End-fed, long wire or ????
 

Thread a longwire through the trees... Have a quarter wave radial on
the ground for each band you intend to operate - this is the RF
counterpoise for the antenna tuner so it doesn't bite your fingers...
Operate and enjoy.. On a ridge as you describe, it should work just
fine...


denny

Need help... End-fed, long wire or ????
 

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:14:51 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

Hey, here's a question for you antenna heads..... I've googled and not found
much but a million opinions
and ideas on which is better so I thought I'd come here and lay out the
situation and get some advice.

I want to put an HF radio back in the house.

I only have a small yard and pesky neighbors.

I want to operate ham and MARS freqs.

I need to be somewhat incognito. A tower is out, and a big vertical is
questionable.
I don't like the radial issue as I live on solid rock, nor the price issues.

My only option is to go out back... zero yard but a hillside that is almost
limitless,
however; I live on top of a ridge so the hills all go downward. I'm assuming
a long wire in the treetops or similar is my only hope.
[very few trees are higher than my house up here, LOL]

SO... if you only had one direction to throw an antenna out, but could arrow
a 300 footer through the treetops if need be,
what would you do? Which style antenna would be best? Random or folded or ?
I'm assuming end-fed is my only option here, with only one direction to go.
[Southerly]

I'm considering a manual tuner in the shack, or auto-tuner like a marine
unit that I could remote in the attic and coax up to it then wire to
outside.

Is there a better way?? Ideas? Input?
thanks for the help!
Woody

I am happy with my SGC-237 tuner. It has a wide range of matching
capability and keeps the RF at the antenna instead of the shack.

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"

Need help... End-fed, long wire or ????
 

Ok, maybe that's what I'll do then... So should I use a balun of any kind or
just make a coax connection of my own?
Woody

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:14:51 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

SO... if you only had one direction to throw an antenna out, but could
arrow
a 300 footer through the treetops if need be,
what would you do?

Hi Woody,

Go for it!

It's not like an act of desperation or anything like that. I had a
similar situation (although more options) with an ad-hoc hillside
longwire (same size, height, etc.). It worked like gang-busters.

Which style antenna would be best? Random or folded or ?

Just as you described it. Anything more convoluted is unlikely to
give you more performance.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Need help... End-fed, long wire or ????
 

OK.... so work with the ignorant here.. I've never used anything other than
my trusty dipole/folded dipoles...
How do I put in radials under a longwire?? I'm kind of on a cliff so not
sure where I could do any digging back there...

A good website for the longwire user would be fantastic and I could just
research it.
thanks!
Woody


"Denny" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thread a longwire through the trees... Have a quarter wave radial on
the ground for each band you intend to operate - this is the RF
counterpoise for the antenna tuner so it doesn't bite your fingers...
Operate and enjoy.. On a ridge as you describe, it should work just
fine...


denny

Need help... End-fed, long wire or ????
 

Ya know ... if I had my druthers... and I don't.. lol...
I'd go for a Motorola Micom 500e setup or a Harris, or an SGC radio...
Not sure I can afford any of them though!
Collecting my pennies though.
Woody

"John Ferrell" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:14:51 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

Hey, here's a question for you antenna heads..... I've googled and not
found
much but a million opinions
and ideas on which is better so I thought I'd come here and lay out the
situation and get some advice.

I want to put an HF radio back in the house.

I only have a small yard and pesky neighbors.

I want to operate ham and MARS freqs.

I need to be somewhat incognito. A tower is out, and a big vertical is
questionable.
I don't like the radial issue as I live on solid rock, nor the price
issues.

My only option is to go out back... zero yard but a hillside that is
almost
limitless,
however; I live on top of a ridge so the hills all go downward. I'm
assuming
a long wire in the treetops or similar is my only hope.
[very few trees are higher than my house up here, LOL]

SO... if you only had one direction to throw an antenna out, but could
arrow
a 300 footer through the treetops if need be,
what would you do? Which style antenna would be best? Random or folded or
?
I'm assuming end-fed is my only option here, with only one direction to
go.
[Southerly]

I'm considering a manual tuner in the shack, or auto-tuner like a marine
unit that I could remote in the attic and coax up to it then wire to
outside.

Is there a better way?? Ideas? Input?
thanks for the help!
Woody

I am happy with my SGC-237 tuner. It has a wide range of matching
capability and keeps the RF at the antenna instead of the shack.

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"

Need help... End-fed, long wire or ????
 

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:46:51 GMT, "Woody" wrote:

Ok, maybe that's what I'll do then... So should I use a balun of any kind or
just make a coax connection of my own?

Hi Woody,

To answer this and your other question about radials, I will use my
own experience.

I drove a ground rod at a remote point, about 12 feet from the house
and closer to the woods. My shack was at ground level and this rod
was more an anchor for a former vertical (where the rod extended up
out of the ground for a foot). Anyway, my principle ground was the
service ground 6 feet from my operating position with both rods tied
together.

At the remote rod (basically at the crest of the ridge), I fanned out
radials down the slope. Don't worry about tuning them, or cutting
them for a band, the proximity of ground completely negates any sense
of tune.

At this remote point, I built a box that contained a choke (a short
length of coax with 50 or 70 beads) that terminated in a BNC bulkhead
connector at one end, and two porcelain posts.

One post was tied to the radial field, the other post was tied to the
skywire. This put the system ground out at the feedpoint when I ran
battery (I always do unless I am on a float charge). This means any
house noise was 12 feet further away than would have normally been
encountered and snubbed properly by the choke. I measured this and
found it to be quite effective for noise control alone.

The sky wire (12 ga THNN) merely lifted off from about 1 foot off the
ground up to the canopy (Maples) around 60 feet above. The wire ran
down the hill, on top of the canopy for about 200 feet. At the remote
end, I simply tied it to a limb (at ground level, the wire ending
somewhere high above) through a length of 1/16th inch nylon line
(crab-pot line). So, from the feedpoint to on-high, the wire
basically described a sideways V with ground (as the slope also fell
beneath it too at roughly the same angle of 25 degrees).

During a storm, two of my Maples snapped about 30 feet above ground
level (but down the slope) and one lay over horizontal, and was
suspended there 20 feet above ground by snagging other trees. The
traditional term for that 30 foot length of tree in this area is
called a "widow maker." On its way down, it hit my wire, ripped the
box off the post, yanked the coax along until it strained my house
connection and broke the coax connection there.

After the storm, I hove the wire over the widow maker, confirmed the
1/16th inch nylon withstood the strain (who wulda thought?) and
repaired the stripped BNC house connection. Amazingly only the ground
wire to the radial field broke when the box started to fly.

We get messages here from those who agonize about setting the woods on
fire - never happened to me, and I never worried about it.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Need help... End-fed, long wire or ????
 

Woody,
you have received plenty of advice... Let me simplify if I may..

The tuner has to sit within reach usually, so that means the end of
the long wire drops down into the shack to the tuner, no coax
involved... No baluns, etc. are needed or advised...

On certain bands the case of the antenna tuner is likely to bite you
when you touch it and the rig also The cure for this is to run a
quarter wave radial for each band from the ground terminal of the
tuner... These can be run around in the room, or exit out the window
and fan out on the ground can be slit into the dirt, whatever
MFJ actually makes a tuner for the ground radials.. Works quite
well...

The purpose of the ground radial is to act as a counterpoise for the
antenna currents reduces ground current losses and to move the RF
peak voltage out to the end of the quarter wave radial leaving the
tuner/radio at low RF potential...

Don't over analyze this... Just hang your longwire, put out your
ground radials, and have fun on the bands...

denny / k8do

Need help... End-fed, long wire or ????
 

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:19:44 -0700, Denny wrote:

Woody,
you have received plenty of advice... Let me simplify if I may..

The tuner has to sit within reach usually, so that means the end of
the long wire drops down into the shack to the tuner, no coax
involved... No baluns, etc. are needed or advised...

On certain bands the case of the antenna tuner is likely to bite you
when you touch it and the rig also The cure for this is to run a
quarter wave radial for each band from the ground terminal of the
tuner...
The SGC-237 keeps the bite outside with the antenna. No RF in the
shack! It does need a source of 12 Volts to power it. There may be
less expensive auto tuners but I am really tired of having to buy
cheaper models only to eventually buy the top of the line...

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"