Hi all,
the electrical codes differ in different countries. Consult the
current one in your country.

One is that the Radio Shack tester can detect certain forms of
mis-wiring, but there's at least one which it cannot detect. This is
one in which you have a three-wire outlet, hooked up to a two-wire
power feed (one which doesn't actually have a ground), and the
installer simply wired the "neutral" and "ground" screws together at
the outlet.
This setup was legal and widely used in Czechoslovakia for many years.
Now it should not be used in new or reconstructed instalations, but it
is still in use in thousands of houses and flats. It doesn't seem
hazardous provided that the network is fused properly.

...
The other reason I'd discourage wiring the power-outlet ground to your
hot-water-heater pipe, is that the National Electric Code doesn't
permit this. If a short circuit occurs somewhere on this circuit, it
would cause your water pipes to carry some of the current back to the
house ground, and this could result in a shock hazard for anyone in
contact with the pipes (e.g. somebody in a shower or tub).
The Czech code requires to interconnect all tubing and conductive
items in a bathroom and connect them to the protective wire
(protective AND NEUTRAL in older installations, see higer)...

BR from Ivan

OK1SIP wrote:
Hi all,
the electrical codes differ in different countries. Consult the
current one in your country.

#snip# neutral-ground interconnection

This setup was legal and widely used in Czechoslovakia for many years.
Now it should not be used in new or reconstructed instalations, but it
is still in use in thousands of houses and flats. It doesn't seem
hazardous provided that the network is fused properly.

#snip# ground/piping interconnection

The Czech code requires to interconnect all tubing and conductive
items in a bathroom and connect them to the protective wire
(protective AND NEUTRAL in older installations, see higer)...

BR from Ivan

Fascinating information, Ivan - thanks very much! "Curiouser and
curiouser..."

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

And, it gets even better!! As most homes now use EITHER Plastic, or Copper
pipes.
Obviously, Plastic is an insulator. What many DON'T appreciate, however, is
that COPPER PLUMBING (to the water main) most likely (and , if it doesn't ,
should be installed) has Insulated UNIONS ! These are placed on the feeds
to prevent electrolysis! With them, copper pipe will survive 20 + Years,
before being eaten thru. Without, more like 5-8 years!! And, even in
OLDER HOMES , with Iron pipes, if the lines have been replaced, you may
encounter this !
Word to the wise: sink a 8 FOOT ground rod!! Better to be safe than
sorry-- Jim NN7K



k1ttt wrote

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but here's something glaringly
obvious...

Grounding will be easy when I get around to it - I have
baseboard hot water radiators that I can ground to.

NEVER ground to hot water pipes - ALWAYS use the cold water pipe,
as it goes directly to the earth outside the building. The hot water
pipes are routed through the hot water heater(s) and are NOT a direct
path to ground.


first a couple of truisms:
NEVER say NEVER.
NEVER believe anyone who asserts an ALWAYS.
In the end an easy job is rarely as easy as you first thought.

RIGHT ON !!!



That being said, NEVER rely on pipes of any kind for safety (either AC or
lightning) grounding of equipment, ALWAYS run your own wire to the proper
ground rod or electrical service connection as required by electrical
codes.

RF "grounds" are another problem. The problem here is to remember that
any
conductor more than a small fraction of a wavelength will have currents
induced in it and thus have a different voltage at one end than the other
when exposed to an HF RF field. The real aim here is two fold: First, to
provide a low resistance path for 'ground' currents back to the antenna
end
of the feedline so the currents in the feedline can be properly balanced.
Second, to keep all equipment and personel in the antenna field near the
same potential to prevent injury and reduce interference.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:17:08 -0700, wrote:

Word to the wise: sink a 8 FOOT ground rod!! Better to be safe than
sorry-- Jim NN7K

An eight foot ground rod makes a lousy RF ground.

Danny, K6MHE

You are absolutly right, but, so does a deeply buried long ground! Better
to run copper wires buried shallow then try to use water pipes, in my book
Jim NN7K


"Dan Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:17:08 -0700, wrote:

Word to the wise: sink a 8 FOOT ground rod!! Better to be safe than
sorry-- Jim NN7K

An eight foot ground rod makes a lousy RF ground.

Danny, K6MHE

If only it were so! Houses in my area have very nice copper plumbing, but
the water pipe connecting the copper to the main in the street is plastic
all the way. The copper never even touches the ground!

"Adam T. Cately" wrote in message
...
SNIP
NEVER ground to hot water pipes - ALWAYS use the cold water pipe,
as it goes directly to the earth outside the building. The hot water
pipes are routed through the hot water heater(s) and are NOT a direct
path to ground.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 08:24:12 -0400, "Adam T. Cately"
wrote:

SNIP

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but here's something glaringly
obvious...

Grounding will be easy when I get around to it - I have
baseboard hot water radiators that I can ground to.

NEVER ground to hot water pipes - ALWAYS use the cold water pipe,
as it goes directly to the earth outside the building. The hot water
pipes are routed through the hot water heater(s) and are NOT a direct
path to ground.

Not in my house. The water main coming in is plastic. Yet the
electrical code requires me to ground to the meter fitting which is
the only metal in the system. It has plastic going out both sides.

I have to ground to the gas main which is plastic coated and doesn't
reach ground potential until it reaches the main on the other side of
the road. Of course all this ties to the electrical system ground
which is several 8' ground rods. about 8' apart.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 13:23:59 -0000, "David Robbins"
wrote:


"Adam T. Cately" wrote in message
...
SNIP

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but here's something glaringly
obvious...

Grounding will be easy when I get around to it - I have
baseboard hot water radiators that I can ground to.

NEVER ground to hot water pipes - ALWAYS use the cold water pipe,
as it goes directly to the earth outside the building. The hot water
pipes are routed through the hot water heater(s) and are NOT a direct
path to ground.


first a couple of truisms:
NEVER say NEVER.
NEVER believe anyone who asserts an ALWAYS.
In the end an easy job is rarely as easy as you first thought.

That being said, NEVER rely on pipes of any kind for safety (either AC or
lightning) grounding of equipment, ALWAYS run your own wire to the proper
ground rod or electrical service connection as required by electrical codes.

RF "grounds" are another problem. The problem here is to remember that any

You reminded me of the sometimes tremendous difference between RF
ground and electrical ground.

Many years ago I had my station temporarily down in the basement when
I still lived with my folks. (bout 43 years ago) There was a storm
headed our way and I decided to disconnect the antenna and goround out
the station.

Well, when I grounded the transmitter (HT-37) by tying the coax to the
hot water heating system the signals on 20 actually got louder...I
didn't have much of an antenna to begine with. I thought I might as
well give it a try and actually worked a couple of South American
stations with the transmitter output tied to that 1" copper water
pipe. The ground terminal had a copper braid tied to it, but that had
to run out a window and tie to an 8' ground rod that was pretty much
in dry sand.

Good thing no one used the ahhh facilities while I was transmitting as
everything in the water system was hot.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
conductor more than a small fraction of a wavelength will have currents
induced in it and thus have a different voltage at one end than the other
when exposed to an HF RF field. The real aim here is two fold: First, to
provide a low resistance path for 'ground' currents back to the antenna end
of the feedline so the currents in the feedline can be properly balanced.
Second, to keep all equipment and personel in the antenna field near the
same potential to prevent injury and reduce interference.