On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 14:11:42 -0400, "Spamfree"
wrote:

snip
They were packed well and proven as such. When we went to the
UPS office, the business was transacted and they were told it was
"glass"........ The UPS lady picked the box up and gave it a heave ho to a
pile. My "ex" mother in law was ****ed. BUT, the package "did" survive the
journey.
snip

I once packed a box containing a monitor and keyboard to be shipped
ahead of me (I was flying) via UPS to a destination cross-country. I
had packed it using shaped foam that was at least 8 inches thick on
all sides and bottom and there was almost no possibility of inner
movement of either the monitor or keyboard. When I picked up the box
there was a nice hole with some 5" diameter dead-center on one of the
faces. On opening the box I found the keyboard had been demolished
but the monitor survived.

On closer look, it had the rough appearance of a sharp, conical
penetration. It was definitely NOT blunt damage. I then began to
imagine the idea that UPS keeps a steel cone mounted on their cement
factory floors, just for the occasional frustrated WHACK their
employees sometimes need to do to a box.

I really couldn't have anticipated this kind of penetration. It was
sharp, narrow, deep, and had enough of an impact to press through a
lot of foam and to then still break through the keyboard.

Jon

"Jeff Volp" wrote in message
...

And you're the fellow who suggested stuffing the transistors into a
flat-rate envelope to save 2 bucks on shipping?

I do agree that it is the responsibility of the seller to get the item to
you safely. That takes packaging appropriate for the item. And sometimes
even mandatory insurance for expensive fragile items.

And if you've ever watched UPS or FedEx 'deliver' parcels by kicking them
off the back of the truck onto the road you'll really want your vintage ham
receiver well packed - preferably with 3" of bubble wrap and not just a
bunch of foam peanuts.

"Spamfree" wrote in message
...

Though it sounds silly to insure a $1 item - here is a "possible"
answer....... If it arrives broken or it is lost - then a refund has to be
made by "someone"! The seller "may" be counting their time and packing
materials in the cost (which can add up) and wish not to lose out in the
event of any problems.

If you use Priority Post and create a label on the website you get tracking
for free. Unless all of the packing etc is included in the item price it
isn't covered by insurance.

"Spamfree" wrote in
:

Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.

Actually, packaging IS complex. To optimise it fully takes as much command
of physics and calculation of likely operating conditions as electronics!
(Commercial hauliers put a lot of R+D into packing, as do makers of
expensive equipment).

What makes it easier is two things: the cheapness of overengineering for
safety, and our more easy tangible grasp of the facts. A limited number of
stock items also makes choices easy.

If you know what you're buying, you can always specify packaging to the
seller. I bought a second-hand hard drive and knowing the tendency for some
people to use layers of newspaper for fragile stuff, and knowing how dense
and incompressible that stuff is unless you take lots of time to form
crumple zones, I asked the seller instead to just get a larger box, I don't
care how rough it is, and to put all the ****ty scrag ends of bublewrap
he'd not want to indignify anyone elses parcel with around that drive. He
didn't have to think, he was happy to shove all the crap that would fit
round it, and it arrived in perfect order.

Another time I wanted three HeNe laser tubes. I made the box and lined it
myself and put rolls of paper where the tubes should go, sent it to the
seller, said replace paper with glass, send it back. Again, it worked
perfectly, and it's always worth specifying somehow, if you know the
product better than the seller does. This is almost always the case when
buying electronics or optics parts from eBay surplus suppliers.

That won't work for full-on commercial sellers but they've (hopefully) got
decent arrangements made. It's works great for private sellers though, who
usually have the remains of packaging from private buying.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:02:29 GMT, Lostgallifreyan
wrote:

"Spamfree" wrote in
:

Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.

Actually, packaging IS complex. To optimise it fully takes as much command
of physics and calculation of likely operating conditions as electronics!
(Commercial hauliers put a lot of R+D into packing, as do makers of
expensive equipment).

What makes it easier is two things: the cheapness of overengineering for
safety, and our more easy tangible grasp of the facts. A limited number of
stock items also makes choices easy.

If you know what you're buying, you can always specify packaging to the
seller. I bought a second-hand hard drive and knowing the tendency for some
people to use layers of newspaper for fragile stuff, and knowing how dense
and incompressible that stuff is unless you take lots of time to form
crumple zones, I asked the seller instead to just get a larger box, I don't
care how rough it is, and to put all the ****ty scrag ends of bublewrap
he'd not want to indignify anyone elses parcel with around that drive. He
didn't have to think, he was happy to shove all the crap that would fit
round it, and it arrived in perfect order.

Another time I wanted three HeNe laser tubes. I made the box and lined it
myself and put rolls of paper where the tubes should go, sent it to the
seller, said replace paper with glass, send it back. Again, it worked
perfectly, and it's always worth specifying somehow, if you know the
product better than the seller does. This is almost always the case when
buying electronics or optics parts from eBay surplus suppliers.

That won't work for full-on commercial sellers but they've (hopefully) got
decent arrangements made. It's works great for private sellers though, who
usually have the remains of packaging from private buying.


...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"John Popelish" wrote in message
...

Sheeeesh! Last time I ordered ferrite cores, they were shipped in a
pressed foam container... each core had its own little depressed area,
so they were immobile... at least enough that they couldn't bang into
each other.

Those sound like new cores. I am talking about stuff from someone's
garage. This is eBay, after all.

A spray can of insulating foam and a roll of double sided tape can make
stuff survive a trip around the world.

"Jonathan Kirwan" wrote in message
...

I once packed a box containing a monitor and keyboard to be shipped
ahead of me (I was flying) via UPS to a destination cross-country. I
had packed it using shaped foam that was at least 8 inches thick on
all sides and bottom and there was almost no possibility of inner
movement of either the monitor or keyboard. When I picked up the box
there was a nice hole with some 5" diameter dead-center on one of the
faces. On opening the box I found the keyboard had been demolished
but the monitor survived.

On closer look, it had the rough appearance of a sharp, conical
penetration. It was definitely NOT blunt damage. I then began to
imagine the idea that UPS keeps a steel cone mounted on their cement
factory floors, just for the occasional frustrated WHACK their
employees sometimes need to do to a box.

I really couldn't have anticipated this kind of penetration. It was
sharp, narrow, deep, and had enough of an impact to press through a
lot of foam and to then still break through the keyboard.

Fork lift tines?

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:02:29 GMT, Lostgallifreyan
wrote:

"Spamfree" wrote in
:

Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.

Actually, packaging IS complex. To optimise it fully takes as much command
of physics and calculation of likely operating conditions as electronics!
(Commercial hauliers put a lot of R+D into packing, as do makers of
expensive equipment).

What makes it easier is two things: the cheapness of overengineering for
safety, and our more easy tangible grasp of the facts. A limited number of
stock items also makes choices easy.

If you know what you're buying, you can always specify packaging to the
seller. I bought a second-hand hard drive and knowing the tendency for some
people to use layers of newspaper for fragile stuff, and knowing how dense
and incompressible that stuff is unless you take lots of time to form
crumple zones, I asked the seller instead to just get a larger box, I don't
care how rough it is, and to put all the ****ty scrag ends of bublewrap
he'd not want to indignify anyone elses parcel with around that drive. He
didn't have to think, he was happy to shove all the crap that would fit
round it, and it arrived in perfect order.

Another time I wanted three HeNe laser tubes. I made the box and lined it
myself and put rolls of paper where the tubes should go, sent it to the
seller, said replace paper with glass, send it back. Again, it worked
perfectly, and it's always worth specifying somehow, if you know the
product better than the seller does. This is almost always the case when
buying electronics or optics parts from eBay surplus suppliers.

That won't work for full-on commercial sellers but they've (hopefully) got
decent arrangements made. It's works great for private sellers though, who
usually have the remains of packaging from private buying.

When I was staff consultant at GenRad, they used plastic bags around
the object to be shipped, then blew them up with some kind of foam,
thus form-fitting support.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Lostgallifreyan" wrote in message
...
"Spamfree" wrote in
:

Again, it isn't rocket science, but many have yet to master it.

Actually, packaging IS complex. To optimise it fully takes as much command
of physics and calculation of likely operating conditions as electronics!
(Commercial hauliers put a lot of R+D into packing, as do makers of
expensive equipment).

What makes it easier is two things: the cheapness of overengineering for
safety, and our more easy tangible grasp of the facts. A limited number of
stock items also makes choices easy.

If you know what you're buying, you can always specify packaging to the
seller. I bought a second-hand hard drive and knowing the tendency for
some
people to use layers of newspaper for fragile stuff, and knowing how dense
and incompressible that stuff is unless you take lots of time to form
crumple zones, I asked the seller instead to just get a larger box, I
don't
care how rough it is, and to put all the ****ty scrag ends of bublewrap
he'd not want to indignify anyone elses parcel with around that drive. He
didn't have to think, he was happy to shove all the crap that would fit
round it, and it arrived in perfect order.

Another time I wanted three HeNe laser tubes. I made the box and lined it
myself and put rolls of paper where the tubes should go, sent it to the
seller, said replace paper with glass, send it back. Again, it worked
perfectly, and it's always worth specifying somehow, if you know the
product better than the seller does. This is almost always the case when
buying electronics or optics parts from eBay surplus suppliers.

That won't work for full-on commercial sellers but they've (hopefully) got
decent arrangements made. It's works great for private sellers though, who
usually have the remains of packaging from private buying.

While you "could" be right about the calculations, R&D - etc of "bigger"
places, I think the gist of this is for "small" businesses (mom and pop) AND
individual sellers - the e-bay and newsgroups buying crowds. THEY don't use
high tech or high priced packaging. If you "pack" it securely - as you would
want to "receive" it - chances are you'll do a good job. Simply "throwing"
something into a box - adding some newspaper or peanuts and not "securing"
the item or cushioinng it - is half assed. Yes, it does take "some" effort
to pack - but again - it isn't "impossible" to get the hang of!

Fed Ex doesn't pick up (packages) near me - the closest place I know of, is
their terminal - 40 miles away. So, I use UPS and USPS. I've had a decent
record so far sending and receiving.

"Homer J Simpson" wrote in
news:J9zTg.4931$N4.734@clgrps12:


"Jeff Volp" wrote in message
...

And you're the fellow who suggested stuffing the transistors into a
flat-rate envelope to save 2 bucks on shipping?

I do agree that it is the responsibility of the seller to get the
item to you safely. That takes packaging appropriate for the item.
And sometimes even mandatory insurance for expensive fragile items.

And if you've ever watched UPS or FedEx 'deliver' parcels by kicking
them off the back of the truck onto the road you'll really want your
vintage ham receiver well packed - preferably with 3" of bubble wrap
and not just a bunch of foam peanuts.





Wouldn't be enough. You'd want to pack 'peanuts' into every internal
crevice too, to sustain that impact, and pack tubes separately, etc..

You'd do better taking a photo of the delivery and posting it on the net
with a clear picture of the guys face. Someone will pay you handsomely to
have that pic removed.