In article , Jeffrey D Angus wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote:
I have lived in several communities that specifically forbade outside
antennas of any kind.... including TV.


What ever happened. I really didn't keep track. I thought at one time there
was some kind of thing going on many years ago, where Hams
were allowed to get by almost doing anything. Some kind of bill or
something. How was that lost ??

I moved to a new location 2.5 years ago, still remodling. I have no antennas
up but I live on kind of an antenna hill. There is still a Ham across the street,
two doors down. There used to be a Ham right across the street. I'm not
sure who owns the two of three towers over there. the property lines
are bizzare. The one guy has transmission lines
going up into the second story window. From my house it looks like about 20.

greg
N6GS

And it's getting more restrictive every day. Even so called older
neighborhoods are getting restrictions put in by the local city
councils in an effort to "make them look nicer".

These are the same fools that want streaming video on their cell
phones, but insist on no cell towers in their neighborhood.

On antenna towers for amateur radio use. I have no issues with
a tower as long as it meets certain engineering standards.

What I have problems with is Joe "I know code so I'm a civil
engineer too" Ham throwing together some 30 year old piece of
crap he bought at an estate sale and then having it fall over
onto my property. And then when the city tells him he needs a
permit, screaming about emergency communications as a
justification.

Jeff wa6fwi

(GregS) wrote in
:

In article , Jeffrey D
Angus wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote:
I have lived in several communities that specifically forbade
outside antennas of any kind.... including TV.


What ever happened. I really didn't keep track. I thought at one
time there was some kind of thing going on many years ago, where
Hams were allowed to get by almost doing anything. Some kind of
bill or something. How was that lost ??

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/reg...1_program.html

"PRB-1, cited as "Amateur Radio Preemption, 101 FCC2d 952 (1985)," is
a limited preemption of local zoning ordinances."

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/reg...local/ccr.html

"Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions in the Amateur Service"

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |

What ever happened. I really didn't keep track. I thought at one time
there
was some kind of thing going on many years ago, where Hams
were allowed to get by almost doing anything. Some kind of bill or
something. How was that lost ??

I moved to a new location 2.5 years ago, still remodling. I have no
antennas
up but I live on kind of an antenna hill. There is still a Ham across the
street,
two doors down. There used to be a Ham right across the street. I'm not
sure who owns the two of three towers over there. the property lines
are bizzare. The one guy has transmission lines
going up into the second story window. From my house it looks like about
20.

greg
N6GS

ALL ABOUT CC&R's, ZONING, PRB-1, HOA's AND ANTENNA RESTRICTIONS AT URL:
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/reg...local/ccr.html


Lamont

Chuck Harris wrote:


I'd sure like to see some references on that one!

Yeah, me to. Where my mother lives (condominiums) they absolutely
prohibit visible antennas of any sort - it's in their association
bylaws. If they put up a dish - they have to camouflage it. The City is
just as tough on other similar stuff...

Here's mom's neighborhood...

http://www.comcents.com/momshood.jpg

See any antennas? There is one - VERY tall as a matter of fact - see it?

http://www.comcents.com/momshood2.jpg

In case you think I'm making this up - here is a close-up noting two of
the lower antennas (there are several more up in the "fronds")...

http://www.comcents.com/tower.jpg

So like Chuck said - I'd like to see some references on that.


best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

The local NPR station (KUOW) ran a story this morning about how ham radio
operators provided the only means of communication in the hardest-hit areas
of western Washington.

Landline phones were dead, cell phones were dead, and even the police &
emergency network was dead except for something like handheld two-way
radios. Hams relayed messages up and down the coast about places to shelter,
availability of supplies, medical emergencies, and so on.

They interviewed a law enforcement guy who happens to be a ham.

In this age of the Internet, ham radio might seem like a quaint throwback to
old times, practiced by a shrinking crew of oddballs.

It's reassuring to know that ham radio is alive and well, and still
performing its public service function as a last-resort network in
emergencies.

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

I'd sure like to see some references on that one!
SNIP
So like Chuck said - I'd like to see some references on that.



FCC RULES ON ANTENNA RESTRICTIONS

I THINK YOU ALL ARE REFERRING TO THE FCC Over-the-Air Reception Devices
Rule
Preemption of Restrictions on Placement of Direct Broadcast Satellite,
Broadband Radio Service, and Television Broadcast Antennas

URL:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


Lamont

In article , Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote:


I'd sure like to see some references on that one!

Yeah, me to. Where my mother lives (condominiums) they absolutely
prohibit visible antennas of any sort - it's in their association
bylaws. If they put up a dish - they have to camouflage it. The City is
just as tough on other similar stuff...

Here's mom's neighborhood...

http://www.comcents.com/momshood.jpg

See any antennas? There is one - VERY tall as a matter of fact - see it?

http://www.comcents.com/momshood2.jpg

In case you think I'm making this up - here is a close-up noting two of
the lower antennas (there are several more up in the "fronds")...

http://www.comcents.com/tower.jpg

So like Chuck said - I'd like to see some references on that.

There is an old church near a hill, and I was watching them making an addition. Its
a very old church. They had a kind of bell tower, but now the bell tower is much higher.
Its loaded with cell antennas inside.

greg

The Shadow wrote:

I'd sure like to see some references on that one!
SNIP
So like Chuck said - I'd like to see some references on that.



FCC RULES ON ANTENNA RESTRICTIONS

I THINK YOU ALL ARE REFERRING TO THE FCC Over-the-Air Reception
Devices Rule
Preemption of Restrictions on Placement of Direct Broadcast Satellite,
Broadband Radio Service, and Television Broadcast Antennas

URL:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


Lamont

This rule says basically that you can have an antenna in an area that
is available for your exclusive use. That would include your living
room, and the confines of a private balcony.

"A: No. The rule does not prohibit restrictions on antennas installed
beyond the balcony or patio of a condominium or apartment unit if
such installation is in, on, or over a common area. An antenna that
extends out beyond the balcony or patio is usually considered to be
in a common area that is not within the scope of the rule. Therefore,
the rule does not apply to a condominium or rental apartment unit
unless the antenna is installed wholly within the exclusive use area,
such as the balcony or patio"

However, not all town houses have such areas. I lived in one that
specifically stated that anything from the drywall out belonged to the
association. I would not have been allowed to stake an antenna in
the dirt in front of my house, or projecting out from a window.

-Chuck

"Bert Hyman" wrote in message
...
(GregS) wrote in
:

In article , Jeffrey D
Angus wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote:
I have lived in several communities that specifically forbade
outside antennas of any kind.... including TV.


What ever happened. I really didn't keep track. I thought at one
time there was some kind of thing going on many years ago, where
Hams were allowed to get by almost doing anything. Some kind of
bill or something. How was that lost ??

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/reg...1_program.html

"PRB-1, cited as "Amateur Radio Preemption, 101 FCC2d 952 (1985)," is
a limited preemption of local zoning ordinances."

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/reg...local/ccr.html

"Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions in the Amateur Service"

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |

Areyou related to Buster Hyman? hahahahahaha!



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Doug Adair wrote:
"Randy or Sherry Guttery" wrote in message
.. .
Chuck Harris wrote:


I'd sure like to see some references on that one!
Yeah, me to. Where my mother lives (condominiums) they absolutely
prohibit visible antennas of any sort - it's in their association
bylaws. If they put up a dish - they have to camouflage it. The City is
just as tough on other similar stuff...

Better tell her association that lawyers will be knocking on their door
sooner or later with their hands out. I don't know about rooftop
conventional OTA antennas, but associations are absolutely prohibited by
federal law from including prohibitions on DBS dishes in their CCRs or
discouraging their use in any way. Requirements to camoflage are NOT
permitted either. The FCC has made it very clear that they want
competition to cable and have jurisdiction in this matter to achieve it,
so the edicts of cities and "townships" do not apply. If an association
takes it to court they will LOSE.

I have a acquaintance who made a good chunk of change during the dot-com
days. He bought a home in a tony planned community in 2001, and put up a
DirecTV dish. Almost immediately one of the neighborhood Nazis tried to
get him to take it down under threat of suit, he said "go ahead and
try"......and they did, and wound up with several thousands of dollars
of egg on their faces, which their insurance company did not pay for
because they had already warned about it in one of their newsletters to
the association some time earlier.

Some time later, I ran into his lawyer (I had met him earlier because I
had helped install the dish that started this mess) and the subject of
the DirecTV dish suit came up. He told me that he deals with disputes
between homeowners and HOAs all the time about all sorts of issues
embedded in CCRs-sometimes he wins and sometimes he loses, but he has
NEVER lost a case involving a homeowner's DBS dish, and he has dealt
with a couple hundred cases.

Unfortunately, none of this applies to ham radio antennas. HOAs are free
to deal with them as they wish, and a lot of them wish to ban them
outright.

Maybe when a major disaster strikes and phone lines and cell towers are
knocked out for miles around and the residents have no way of telling
Mom and Dad in another state that they are safe because there are no ham
radio installations in their perfect, manicured community, they will
relent, but I am not holding my breath even then. Control is hard for
some people to give up, even when doing so makes sense.

-Scott