In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/29/2014 10:14 AM, Rob wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/29/2014 1:09 AM, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Jerry Stuckle wrote:

snip

"No, unlike incandescent bulbs that work with almost any dimmer, LED and
CFL bulbs perform differently depending on the dimmer you install. You
will need to select a dimmer designed specifically for dimmable LED/CFL
bulbs."

Not if you use Phillips bulbs.

http://www.cnet.com/news/which-led-l...t-for-dimming/

snip remainder



And exactly what are the qualifications of the author? A "text-based
adventure connoisseur"?

I'll believe the engineers who design dimmers, not the funny pages.

Of course you won't believe it, but Philips (one l, a Dutch company)
know how to design lighting systems.


I never said they didn't. But that doesn't mean their LED bulbs work
with legacy dimmers.

Independant reviews by people not selling someone else's product like
you are say they do.


--
Jim Pennino

In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Jerry Stuckle wrote:

snip

If they lied in their statements, the FTC would be after them in a
second. They are very aggressive about such things.

Only if people complain first or if the statements are blatent and
very visible as on TV.

I did not say they lied, which is irrelevant, as they were only talking
about their products.

And not all manufacturers would be saying the same thing.

Not all manufacturers are saying the same thing.

But then you know everything, and you are always right. And anyone who
disagrees with you is a liar or doesn't know what he's talking about.

I am not the one selling light bulbs and neither are the people that also
disagree with you.



--
Jim Pennino

In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Rob wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
For incandescent, yes. But not for LED bulbs. If that were the case,
why would some LED bulbs be dimmable and others not?

"is it dimmable" refers to the use of a phase-cut TRIAC dimmer in combination
with a retrofit LED bulb designed to run on mains power.

This combination does not work for all LED bulbs, because the electronics
in the bulb are trying to put a constant current through the LED independent
on the mains voltage, and now you are cutting down the mains power.
(not even the voltage, really)

Yes, the RMS voltage, really.

If you remove part of a cycle from a sine wave, the RMS voltage goes
down. The RMS voltage depends on the waveform.

You probably have a 13.8V stabilized DC supply in your shack.
Can you use it as a variable-voltage supply by putting a dimmer in
front of it?

No, not really. When you turn down the dimmer, the supply will first
try all it can do to keep the voltage at 13.8, and at some point it can
not achieve that anymore and the voltage will drop, but it will not
be stabilized anymore.

Similarly, a LED bulb may keep constant light emission for a large part
of the dimmer setpoint range, and at some point it goes down in intensity
in an erratic way.


We are just in the first phase of LED lighting deployment, the
"compatability" phase where the bulbs are still using existing form
factors of incandescent bulbs, and are supplied with mains voltage
that is converted to current inside the bulb. It is not the best
solution to use such bulbs in combination with existing dimmers.

Of course a next phase will be to use more reasonable form factors and
connection, where the electronics have a light level setpoint that
determines the LED current and the mains voltage is directly applied
without intermediate phase-cut dimmer.

People like dimmers and the huge installed base of legacy dimmers
ensures they will be around for decades.

The various standards groups, such as NEMA, are actively working on
standards for the new lighting technologies and as the issue is global
and involves billions of dollars of product, will likely eventually
result in a set of standards for bulbs for legacy dimmers and standards
for new technologies.


--
Jim Pennino

In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/29/2014 4:30 AM, Rob wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
For incandescent, yes. But not for LED bulbs. If that were the case,
why would some LED bulbs be dimmable and others not?

"is it dimmable" refers to the use of a phase-cut TRIAC dimmer in combination
with a retrofit LED bulb designed to run on mains power.


No, some bulbs are not dimmable, period. Some are. None work reliably
with triac dimmer controls.

According to independant reviews by people NOT selling light bulbs, some
manufacturers bulbs do.

The ones you are selling do not.

snip

It's going to be years (if ever) before such standards are created for
the residential market. There are too many reasons to stick with 117V
wiring.

The standards are being actively developed and have nothing to do with
altering the wiring voltage and everything to do with dimmer and bulb
technology.



--
Jim Pennino

In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Jerry Stuckle wrote:

snip

If you must know, Phillips is not considered one of the top brands in
the U.S.

Yeah, they must be trolls.

snip

Oh no? ROFLMAO! Who do you think first developed LED bulbs? Here's a
hint: it wasn't Phillips.

Hint:

The Energy Independence and Security Act (EISA) of 2007 authorized the
Department of Energy (DOE) to establish the Bright Tomorrow Lighting
Prize competition, known as the "L Prize".

On 3 August 2011, DOE awarded the prize in the 60 W replacement category
to a Philips' LED lamp after 18 months of extensive testing.

snip

No, at the time neither had an advantage. You need to read up on the
"war" between Tesla and Edison.

At the time there was no such thing as an effient DC-DC converter but
transformers did exist; that was a HUGE advantage.

snip

We have only digital TV here, also. Been that way for over 5 years.

Nope, we still have legacy analog in many places and that was the
reason the FCC denied the petition to establish a 4M amateur band
in the US.


--
Jim Pennino

In rec.radio.amateur.homebrew gareth wrote:

Apologies to all. I had thought that this might be an interesting area to
investigate. I did not mean for it to be a vehicle for the two infantile
Yank rednecks to vent their spleens (again)

Thus speaketh Colonel Blimp, the pikey, bloviating, gas bag.



--
Jim Pennino

On 11/29/2014 12:56 PM, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/29/2014 10:14 AM, Rob wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/29/2014 1:09 AM, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Jerry Stuckle wrote:

snip

"No, unlike incandescent bulbs that work with almost any dimmer, LED and
CFL bulbs perform differently depending on the dimmer you install. You
will need to select a dimmer designed specifically for dimmable LED/CFL
bulbs."

Not if you use Phillips bulbs.

http://www.cnet.com/news/which-led-l...t-for-dimming/

snip remainder



And exactly what are the qualifications of the author? A "text-based
adventure connoisseur"?

I'll believe the engineers who design dimmers, not the funny pages.

Of course you won't believe it, but Philips (one l, a Dutch company)
know how to design lighting systems.


I never said they didn't. But that doesn't mean their LED bulbs work
with legacy dimmers.

Independant reviews by people not selling someone else's product like
you are say they do.



Independent reviews by untrained people are worth exactly what you paid
for them.

Keep reading the funny pages. They're your speed.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On 11/29/2014 12:55 PM, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/29/2014 1:09 AM, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Jerry Stuckle wrote:

snip

"No, unlike incandescent bulbs that work with almost any dimmer, LED and
CFL bulbs perform differently depending on the dimmer you install. You
will need to select a dimmer designed specifically for dimmable LED/CFL
bulbs."

Not if you use Phillips bulbs.

http://www.cnet.com/news/which-led-l...t-for-dimming/

snip remainder



And exactly what are the qualifications of the author? A "text-based
adventure connoisseur"?

I'll believe the engineers who design dimmers, not the funny pages.

Yes, you will believe the engineers from the company whose bulbs and
dimmers you sell; you kind of have to.


No, I don't. I believe them because they are correct. If I didn't
believe them, we wouldn't sell their product.

There are lots of INDEPENDANT reviews out there that do NOT hold the
same views you do.


Independent reviews by untrained people are worth exactly what you paid
for them.

Keep reading the funny pages. They're your speed.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On 11/29/2014 1:06 PM, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Jerry Stuckle wrote:

snip

If they lied in their statements, the FTC would be after them in a
second. They are very aggressive about such things.

Only if people complain first or if the statements are blatent and
very visible as on TV.


Incorrect. The FTC takes actions on their own quite often.

I did not say they lied, which is irrelevant, as they were only talking
about their products.


Either they are correct or they lied. Which one is it?

And not all manufacturers would be saying the same thing.

Not all manufacturers are saying the same thing.


Which ones are not?

But then you know everything, and you are always right. And anyone who
disagrees with you is a liar or doesn't know what he's talking about.

I am not the one selling light bulbs and neither are the people that also
disagree with you.


No, and you're not experts in the field. The engineers I've worked with
are.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On 11/29/2014 1:33 PM, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors Jerry Stuckle wrote:

snip

If you must know, Phillips is not considered one of the top brands in
the U.S.

Yeah, they must be trolls.


You said it, not me.

snip

Oh no? ROFLMAO! Who do you think first developed LED bulbs? Here's a
hint: it wasn't Phillips.

Hint:

The Energy Independence and Security Act (EISA) of 2007 authorized the
Department of Energy (DOE) to establish the Bright Tomorrow Lighting
Prize competition, known as the "L Prize".

On 3 August 2011, DOE awarded the prize in the 60 W replacement category
to a Philips' LED lamp after 18 months of extensive testing.


Yes, but they did not develop the LED bulb. You obviously are not
reading, and arguing for argument's sake.

snip

No, at the time neither had an advantage. You need to read up on the
"war" between Tesla and Edison.

At the time there was no such thing as an effient DC-DC converter but
transformers did exist; that was a HUGE advantage.


Which had nothing to do with the war between Tesla and Edison. You
should read about the history before proving your ignorance.

snip

We have only digital TV here, also. Been that way for over 5 years.

Nope, we still have legacy analog in many places and that was the
reason the FCC denied the petition to establish a 4M amateur band
in the US.



Nope. There is no analog TV in the United States. But those
frequencies ARE being used by digital TV stations - as the FCC said in
its denial of the petition.

Once again you prove your ignorance.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================