In Bill writes:

No, lets don't. The Dem/Repub debate weirdnesses have taken on a
totally new character in recent years. 'Pubs want to blow the enemies
off the face of the earth come hell or high water and scoot it under
legal and public scrutiny while Dems....well, Dems haven't offered
anything except a whiney campaign about how the Pubs are doing it all wrong.
I'd rather be in a trench with a 'pub when the bullets are flying.

By and large I stay out of politics. Hell, I don't even live
in America -- I live in New York City. But this "What have they
offered?" always bugs me.

"Offering" in this sense means a sound bite or slogan that
can be reduced to a media headline. Which is never the whole
truth and nothing but the truth. C'mon, Bill! I know you don't
really believe any viable solution to the problems of the modern
world can be reduced to 500 words or less. Any offered plan in
this sense is simply playing to mass sentiment, and bereft of
the details needed to make it work.

Now let's go get 'em! You know, THEM!!!

--
Tim Mullen
------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I in your basement? Looking for antique televisions, fans, etc.
------ finger this account or call anytime: (212)-463-0552 -------

Well said Mr. Liberal! Want to share the cat food?

I (and at least half the population of the US) am sick and tired and
extremely offended by the right-wing, neo-conservative, propaganda slant
that equates the word "liberal" with various *expletive deleted* words. Fact
is, most of us are moderates. Extreme left and extreme right orientation is
much smaller. Anyone with at least an IQ of 100 will look at both sides and
draw conclusions from both. You neo-conservative bozos are going to pay
dearly in the next big election. I classify my political views as "extremely
moderate". I have voted for republicans and democrats based on their stance.
Lately I tend to vote for democrats as a statement against the whacko neo
republicans who have gained favor (for whatever unknown reason) in the last
couple of years. Anyone conservatively oriented should wake up and return to
real conservative political values and reject the "neo" crap and the
"evangelical Christian" crap. Otherwise, you are going down!

Phil B


"Beerbarrel" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:19:53 -0700, "xrongor"
wrote:


"Beerbarrel" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 16:59:50 -0500, " Uncle Peter"
wrote:


"Lazy Senior" wrote in message
news:J9Nff.1009$792.780@trnddc08...

Carefull, Bush supporters are a bit testy these days......

Lazy Senior

Better watch it. They are talking about cutting back on
the food stamp program. It might be back to catfood
for you.





Canned at that!

ah the conservatives always bring it down to this level when they have
nothing else to say.

randy




Well said Mr. Liberal! Want to share the cat food?

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:47:42 -0800, "Scott W. Harvey"
wrote:

Beerbarrel wrote:
sissies!

It is popular fodder for Republicans to portray Democrats (or anyone
else who rubs their fur the wrong way) as a bunch of wimps.



I'm not going to read that gibberish. I was pointing the coward
comment at Peter and xranger. Look back at all the posts. This was not
a political thread until they started posting. If they want to start
OT political rants then they need to be prepared for comments. It is
as simple as that. I still say....let's go in with guns blazing and
finish the job.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 03:18:01 -0500, "Phil B"
wrote:

Well said Mr. Liberal! Want to share the cat food?

I (and at least half the population of the US) am sick and tired and
extremely offended by the right-wing, neo-conservative, propaganda slant
that equates the word "liberal" with various *expletive deleted* words. Fact
is, most of us are moderates. Extreme left and extreme right orientation is
much smaller. Anyone with at least an IQ of 100 will look at both sides and
draw conclusions from both.



I did...I concluded that liberals suck!










You neo-conservative bozos are going to pay
dearly in the next big election.


I'm not going to pay anything. Unlike sissy liberals, I'm prepared to
support the next president whomever that may be.


I classify my political views as "extremely
moderate".


Come on! You can say liberal can't you?




I have voted for republicans and democrats based on their stance.
Lately I tend to vote for democrats as a statement against the whacko neo
republicans who have gained favor (for whatever unknown reason) in the last
couple of years. Anyone conservatively oriented should wake up and return to
real conservative political values and reject the "neo" crap and the
"evangelical Christian" crap. Otherwise, you are going down!

Phil B


You never got over losing did you?










"Beerbarrel" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:19:53 -0700, "xrongor"
wrote:


"Beerbarrel" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 16:59:50 -0500, " Uncle Peter"
wrote:


"Lazy Senior" wrote in message
news:J9Nff.1009$792.780@trnddc08...

Carefull, Bush supporters are a bit testy these days......

Lazy Senior

Better watch it. They are talking about cutting back on
the food stamp program. It might be back to catfood
for you.





Canned at that!

ah the conservatives always bring it down to this level when they have
nothing else to say.

randy




Well said Mr. Liberal! Want to share the cat food?

The democrats used to be "hawks". Now the neo-cons are the hawks. What a
change! Regardless, the outcome of the current war is very apparent.
Traditional conservative political values have been hijacked by Bush II and
his cronies. I am looking forward to the coming major elections. I think a
return to bi-partisan, middle-of-the road, more sensible, politics will
appeal to voters. That is, if the widely spread "neo" propaganda doesn't
brainwash the majority. I prefer to think optimistically that it won't.

Phil B


"Scott W. Harvey" wrote in message
...
Beerbarrel wrote:
sissies!

It is popular fodder for Republicans to portray Democrats (or anyone else
who rubs their fur the wrong way) as a bunch of wimps.

Well, let's take a brief look at history over the last century.......

World War I-Prosecuted by the administration of Woodrow Wilson, a
Democrat. The first truly mechanized war, and the first widespread use of
chemical weapons in war. The USA and its allies were ultimately
victorious, but things soon turned ugly. Wilson's failed attempts to
secure a lasting postwar peace led to a complete destruction of his
health. Widespread postwar unemployment and a health care system strained
to its limits by a pandemic spread by returning troops made victory
bittersweet.

World War II-Prosecuted by the administration of Franklin Delano
Roosevelt, a Democrat. The most complete military victory in American
history led to the emergence of the USA as a superpower, and the pent-up
demand for long-rationed consumer goods led to a booming economy as well.
But victory came at a heavy price....A quater of a million US lives lost,
and a postwar world enormously complicated by the development and
deployment of atomic weapons.

Korean Conflict-Prosecuted by the administration of Harry S. Truman, a
Democrat. Although some of the same brilliant strategists who engineered
the victory in WWII were involved in this conflict (including Douglas
MacArthur for a time), The best the US and its allies were able to
accomplish in two years of fighting was a draw....Not good for a military
action that claimed at least 32,000 American lives.

Vietnam Conflict-Prosecuted by the administration of Lyndon B. Johnson, a
Democrat. This war became so unpopular that Johnson was forced to give up
his bid to serve the longest period of any post WWII president. By 1968,
the nation was the most divided it had been since the Civil War. Richard
Nixon, Johnson's White House Descendant, fared little better with the war
effort and finally called it quits in 1973 after 55,000 American lives had
been lost. It should be noted that many high-ranking officials of the
current Bush administration came of age during the Vietnam involvement.
Most of them, including the President himself, received student deferments
and/or National Guard appointments and did not play a combat role in this
conflict.

Desert Storm-Prosecuted by the administration of George H.W. Bush, a
Republican. Mission accomplished.....light casualties and total victory
over the enemy in a popular and patriotic war. Sounds like a home run,
right? That's what the Republicans thought, too....Until voters sent Bush
packing in favor of Republican arch-enemy Bill Clinton, making Bush the
first single-term Republican president since Herbert Hoover.


It can be seen that the outcome and aftermath of these conflicts is
definitely a mixed bag, and that most of them were prosecuted by
Democratic administrations. Does the current Democratic skittishness about
the Iraq war mean that they are just sissies and wimps-or could it be that
it is because the Democrats have learned some awful truths about the
social and political costs of waging modern warfare that the Republicans
have yet to learn?


-Scott



-

Tim Mullen wrote:



By and large I stay out of politics. Hell, I don't even live
in America -- I live in New York City. But this "What have they
offered?" always bugs me.

"Offering" in this sense means a sound bite or slogan that
can be reduced to a media headline. Which is never the whole
truth and nothing but the truth. C'mon, Bill! I know you don't
really believe any viable solution to the problems of the modern
world can be reduced to 500 words or less. Any offered plan in
this sense is simply playing to mass sentiment, and bereft of
the details needed to make it work.

Now let's go get 'em! You know, THEM!!!

I'll take 250 words of anybody's mass sentiment pitch if they don't
include worn out homilies that only mention bashing 'the Bush
administration' and 'quagmire' as THE platform.
I don't expect any mortal to have the answers but I'd sure like to see
someone who pretends to have a better option.

No one does...ummm, maybe because they know better. What if a major Dem
were to surface and say "Lets pull out tomorrow, lock, stock and barrel.
Let those *******s go thru civil war until they get their ****
together". Now wouldn't that ring as loud a Conservative Bell as a
major RePub saying "kill them all and let Allah sort 'em out" ?

Seems to be the same thing to me.

Waxing political, I happen to think the answer is dividing up the
hellhole like was done in the Balkans because these factions just aren't
gonna agree on anything as a whole. That doesn't prevent the nutty
voluntary martyrs with a belt of explosives from doing their deeds - but
at least it provides a mechanism for the US to get the heck out of
there...which is now becoming more of a focus.

Maybe we are getting close. This summit in Cairo where the guys asked
for a timetable for US withdrawal was a good sign. If the 'official'
Iraqi gubmnit (FWIW) were to ask this we should assign another 100,000
troops to go over there and help the troops pack their bags and be out
of there tomorrow. I think the Iraqi authorities are much more credible
in that regard and see the extended US occupation as a problem rather
than a solution.

Zeroing back to the point. Bush ain't gonna back down. He can't
politically. Its up to you Dems to find some leadership to make this
happen. So strap on a pair of balls and kwitcher-bitching and quit
forking up uniquely Northeastern woosie french-fag-type candidates like
Kerry and that high-school cheerleader guy from Vermont. Bush's
satifaction rating is in the 30% range and I don't see any Dem
capitalizing on that. Do you guys need a book or something?
-ex

Phil B wrote:

The democrats used to be "hawks". Now the neo-cons are the hawks. What a
change! Regardless, the outcome of the current war is very apparent.
Traditional conservative political values have been hijacked by Bush II and
his cronies. I am looking forward to the coming major elections. I think a
return to bi-partisan, middle-of-the road, more sensible, politics will
appeal to voters. That is, if the widely spread "neo" propaganda doesn't
brainwash the majority. I prefer to think optimistically that it won't.

Phil B


How many Dem-negative-buzzwords can I pick out of that post?

neo-cons
cronies
brainwash

I agree with your post but the parrot mentality is what keeps us from
accord. Whats a "neo-con"? Did this exist 10 years ago? No. How can
one make a cogent argument when the terminology suggests that the writer
has been brought up with accusatory spoon-fed terminology from one side
(or the other) as a means of making a point? What ever happened to
individual thought that wasn't influenced by campaign designer?.

Tim Mullen wrote:

I know you don't
really believe any viable solution to the problems of the modern
world can be reduced to 500 words or less.



The core, the essence of being a Republican is nothing which takes long
to explain can be true (50 words is more like it).

You must hate America
You must hate freedom
You must hate our troops
Clinton lied
We are the only moral ones
Etc.

I do admire their ability to stay on message no matter what the cost.
Everything must be cast in the starkest, most black and white way. I
often play by the rule book myself now, as I have to agree the Dems just
don't sound bite well enough without this approach.

John H.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 03:18:01 -0500, "Phil B"
wrote:

Well said Mr. Liberal! Want to share the cat food?

I (and at least half the population of the US) am sick and tired and
extremely offended by the right-wing, neo-conservative, propaganda slant
that equates the word "liberal" with various *expletive deleted* words. Fact
is, most of us are moderates. Extreme left and extreme right orientation is
much smaller. Anyone with at least an IQ of 100 will look at both sides and
draw conclusions from both. You neo-conservative bozos are going to pay
dearly in the next big election. I classify my political views as "extremely
moderate". I have voted for republicans and democrats based on their stance.
Lately I tend to vote for democrats as a statement against the whacko neo
republicans who have gained favor (for whatever unknown reason) in the last
couple of years. Anyone conservatively oriented should wake up and return to
real conservative political values and reject the "neo" crap and the
"evangelical Christian" crap. Otherwise, you are going down!

Phil B


I find it funny that you complain about the way conservatives try to
portray the word liberal and then you turn around in this posts and
your next post and do the exact same thing to the word conservative.
You are the reason I don't and won't vote for a liberal. You are
allowed all the negative rhetoric you wish to throw out but if someone
on the other side fires back you run crying to your mommy 'cause the
big bully is being mean to you.

Steve B.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:06:57 GMT, Steve B. wrote:

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 03:18:01 -0500, "Phil B"
wrote:

Well said Mr. Liberal! Want to share the cat food?

I (and at least half the population of the US) am sick and tired and
extremely offended by the right-wing, neo-conservative, propaganda slant
that equates the word "liberal" with various *expletive deleted* words. Fact
is, most of us are moderates. Extreme left and extreme right orientation is
much smaller. Anyone with at least an IQ of 100 will look at both sides and
draw conclusions from both. You neo-conservative bozos are going to pay
dearly in the next big election. I classify my political views as "extremely
moderate". I have voted for republicans and democrats based on their stance.
Lately I tend to vote for democrats as a statement against the whacko neo
republicans who have gained favor (for whatever unknown reason) in the last
couple of years. Anyone conservatively oriented should wake up and return to
real conservative political values and reject the "neo" crap and the
"evangelical Christian" crap. Otherwise, you are going down!

Phil B


I find it funny that you complain about the way conservatives try to
portray the word liberal and then you turn around in this posts and
your next post and do the exact same thing to the word conservative.
You are the reason I don't and won't vote for a liberal. You are
allowed all the negative rhetoric you wish to throw out but if someone
on the other side fires back you run crying to your mommy 'cause the
big bully is being mean to you.

Steve B.


Hehehehe...funny and true!