It just amazes me how amp users push the limits out of a amp. If the outputs
can do 200 watts at RF out compression, they will drive it to do 200 watts
dead key and modulate it with AM the P-P watt out is 200 watts with downward
modulation.. They don't seem to realize that if they drove it to 35-50 watts
out and then apply modulation their signal would be just as strong, hitting
200 watts P-P Out and the current draw would be less, also much less heat
and sound better. Oh **** I said sound better, that is not the way in CB,
the more they can F
* up a radio, cutting limiters, adding a mic that overdrives the radio into
distortion, and using class C amps the more they like it.






"Scott in Baltimore" wrote in message
...
Actually the difference from 35 watts to 100 watts is far less than
that from 5 to 35 watts. In fact the difference from 35 watts to 100
watts is really just discernable. To make a real noticable difference
the power level has to go up by four times. Five to 35 is seven times.

A 2x455 amp will work great. They are called 225's now, because that's
how watts of DC input they use. It's a marketing ploy. Each MRF455 is
good for 60 watts max times a push/pull pair is 120 watts max RMS.
Expect OK audio on AM at 30 to 35 watts of dead key with a properly
biased box. Stay away from Class C (competition box or modulator) units.

There is no reason for a 100 Watt linear to NOT DO 100 watts dead key am
with 100% modulation... same goes with all other amps or greater/lesser
ratings...

On SSB carrier will be controlled by modulation, naturally...

However, "swing kits" and cheap amps which count on "swing" are nothing
but junk... a junk amp cannot pump our 100 Watts continuous (however,
even in amateur operation amps are usually rated at 50% duty
cycle--basically means 1 min key down, one minute off--on the avg--or
50% on time during conversations)

"Backwards modulation" can be caused by over 100% modulation which
causes signal to be "stolen" from rf amplification and given to more
audio, or a linear NOT peaked correctly...

There are a LOT of junk amps out there and those purchasing/using them
just are not aware of what a real amp is...

And of course, if you buy a 500 watt amp and cut down drive from the
transmitter so that the linear is only putting out 250 watts it will run
much cooler--possibly even able to run a 100% duty cycle... and a
"swing kit" that is bouncing the signal up and down with am audio is
just a junk toy... I guess the "good ole buddies" just like to see a
meter swing on am... hey, whatever keeps a child entertained...

Warmest regards,
John
"Crapper" wrote in message
...
It just amazes me how amp users push the limits out of a amp. If the
outputs can do 200 watts at RF out compression, they will drive it to
do 200 watts dead key and modulate it with AM the P-P watt out is 200
watts with downward modulation.. They don't seem to realize that if
they drove it to 35-50 watts out and then apply modulation their
signal would be just as strong, hitting 200 watts P-P Out and the
current draw would be less, also much less heat and sound better. Oh
**** I said sound better, that is not the way in CB, the more they can
F
* up a radio, cutting limiters, adding a mic that overdrives the radio
into distortion, and using class C amps the more they like it.






"Scott in Baltimore" wrote in message
...
Actually the difference from 35 watts to 100 watts is far less than
that from 5 to 35 watts. In fact the difference from 35 watts to 100
watts is really just discernable. To make a real noticable
difference
the power level has to go up by four times. Five to 35 is seven
times.

A 2x455 amp will work great. They are called 225's now, because
that's
how watts of DC input they use. It's a marketing ploy. Each MRF455 is
good for 60 watts max times a push/pull pair is 120 watts max RMS.
Expect OK audio on AM at 30 to 35 watts of dead key with a properly
biased box. Stay away from Class C (competition box or modulator)
units.

There is no reason for a 100 Watt linear to NOT DO 100 watts dead key am
with 100% modulation... same goes with all other amps or greater/lesser
ratings...

Explain to me how you can do 100 watts deadkey out of a 100 watt amp
and get 400 watt peak-to-peak swing out of it?

AM has a 4:1 ratio of carrier to modulation. That means that for 100%
modulation, the peak instantaneous power is 4 times the unmodulated
power. Since amps are rated in peak power (usually DC input power),
you need to put your deadkey at 25% of the maximum for the same reason
that amateur radios that claim 100 watts of SSB power only do 25 watts
of AM.

May I suggest the ARRL handbook at your local library as a primer?

"Scott in Baltimore" wrote in message
...
There is no reason for a 100 Watt linear to NOT DO 100 watts dead key am
with 100% modulation... same goes with all other amps or greater/lesser
ratings...

Explain to me how you can do 100 watts deadkey out of a 100 watt amp
and get 400 watt peak-to-peak swing out of it?

AM has a 4:1 ratio of carrier to modulation. That means that for 100%
modulation, the peak instantaneous power is 4 times the unmodulated
power. Since amps are rated in peak power (usually DC input power),
you need to put your deadkey at 25% of the maximum for the same reason
that amateur radios that claim 100 watts of SSB power only do 25 watts
of AM.

May I suggest the ARRL handbook at your local library as a primer?

The channel 6 method? 30 volts?

From: (Scott=A0in=A0Baltimore)
There is no reason for a 100 Watt linear to NOT DO 100 watts dead key am
with 100% modulation... same goes with all other amps or greater/lesser
ratings.
..
Explain to me how you can do 100 watts

deadkey out of a 100 watt amp and get 400

watt peak-to-peak swing out of it?

Huh? He said 100 watts, not 400 and he didn't mention swing at all.

"I AmnotGeorgeBush" wrote in message
...
From: (Scott in Baltimore)
There is no reason for a 100 Watt linear to NOT DO 100 watts dead key am
with 100% modulation... same goes with all other amps or greater/lesser
ratings.
..
Explain to me how you can do 100 watts

deadkey out of a 100 watt amp and get 400

watt peak-to-peak swing out of it?

Huh? He said 100 watts, not 400 and he didn't mention swing at all.


Jay is right about the power end of it. If an amp is not rated anything
other than "100 watts", it would be smart to assume it is 100 watts output
*maximum*. That means 100 watts on FM or CW or any digital mode, but ssb
would be 100 watts pep as would AM. In the case of AM, that means a 25 watt
carrier (to end up with 100 watts pep).


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim

From: =A0=A0 "Jim Hampton"
Group: =A0=A0 rec.radio.cb
Subject: =A0=A0 Picked up a small amp X-Priority: =A0=A0 3
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(EDT+4)
"I AmnotGeorgeBush" wrote in message
...
From: (Scott in Baltimore) There is no reason
for a 100 Watt linear to NOT DO 100 watts dead key am with 100%
modulation... same goes with all other amps or greater/lesser ratings.

Explain to me how you can do 100 watts

deadkey out of a 100 watt amp and get 400

watt peak-to-peak swing out of it?

Huh? He said 100 watts, not 400 and he didn't mention swing at all.
-
said:
Jay is right about the power end of it. If an

amp is not rated anything other than "100

watts", it would be smart to assume it is 100

watts output *maximum*.


Exactly.

That means 100 watts on FM or CW or any

digital mode, but ssb would be 100 watts pep

as would AM. In the case of AM, that means a
25 watt carrier (to end up with 100 watts pep).

73 from Rochester, NY

Jim

On AM, how many bird watts will the bird watts swing from 100 bird watts
dead key carrier? g

"I AmnotGeorgeBush" wrote in message
...
From: "Jim Hampton"
Group: rec.radio.cb
Subject: Picked up a small amp X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Complaints-To:
X-Trace:
52616e646f6d495606fc1a66ad665b5cb50fbd0705b6e47103 26c788f81f8ede38f8a5f7bead8d9b46fe9d2f1e66531196db 2b26143b03f2214fd6d9c561420d3de982c4750cf5ddfb4f6a d5ac2370c627ea23e3aee461f8f211368a26b0f127
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21, 2005, 10:12pm (EDT+4) Date: Tue, Jun 21, 2005, 10:12pm
(EDT+4)
"I AmnotGeorgeBush" wrote in message
...
From: (Scott in Baltimore) There is no reason
for a 100 Watt linear to NOT DO 100 watts dead key am with 100%
modulation... same goes with all other amps or greater/lesser ratings.

Explain to me how you can do 100 watts

deadkey out of a 100 watt amp and get 400

watt peak-to-peak swing out of it?

Huh? He said 100 watts, not 400 and he didn't mention swing at all.
-
said:
Jay is right about the power end of it. If an

amp is not rated anything other than "100

watts", it would be smart to assume it is 100

watts output *maximum*.


Exactly.

That means 100 watts on FM or CW or any

digital mode, but ssb would be 100 watts pep

as would AM. In the case of AM, that means a
25 watt carrier (to end up with 100 watts pep).

73 from Rochester, NY

Jim

On AM, how many bird watts will the bird watts swing from 100 bird watts
dead key carrier? g


............yeah, what he said.

Jim:

I have never seen an amp rated both 100 watts am and 100 watts ssb. By
nature a ssb signal is only half the bandwidth (roughly) of an am
signal.

I have an old CMI linear I have ran since 1975--100 watts am but 165
watts ssb p-p. I have found most amps to fall relatively close to
ratings, if a 100 watt amp.

I have looked at the new amps and they components are truly pushed to
the max. I would think they must run HOT!!!

On an am signal, the power out should remain relatively the same with
and without audio. "Swing kits" cause the rf out to vary--but why,
unless you are driving components above their ratings and need to avg
the power out. A true 100 watt amp should hold a fairly steady 100 watt
output on AM from key down to key up.

Some freaks out there just like to see a meter "swing" like ssb
causes--so they either go a swing kit or a variable power xmitter which
allow rf increases on peak audio--in some ways it reminds me of a childs
toy.

John

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

"I AmnotGeorgeBush" wrote in message
...
From: (Scott in Baltimore)
There is no reason for a 100 Watt linear to NOT DO 100 watts dead key
am
with 100% modulation... same goes with all other amps or
greater/lesser
ratings.
.
Explain to me how you can do 100 watts

deadkey out of a 100 watt amp and get 400

watt peak-to-peak swing out of it?

Huh? He said 100 watts, not 400 and he didn't mention swing at all.


Jay is right about the power end of it. If an amp is not rated
anything
other than "100 watts", it would be smart to assume it is 100 watts
output
*maximum*. That means 100 watts on FM or CW or any digital mode, but
ssb
would be 100 watts pep as would AM. In the case of AM, that means a
25 watt
carrier (to end up with 100 watts pep).


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim