"Professor" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well... you guys can play around with your little toy soldering iron.
I'll continue to use my http://www.hexaconelectric.com/thermo.html


Not bad, but I like mine better... XyTronic XY26-60D. An older model that
looks exactly like this unit http://www.xytronic-usa.com/960a_index.htm#esd,
aside from a color difference... Same specs...

Yes... that looks like a nice unit also.

Professor
www.telstar-electronics.com

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:47:49 -0600, "DrDeath"
wrote:

+"james" wrote in message
...
+ On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:34:33 -0600, "DrDeath"
+ wrote:
+
++"Clark" wrote in message
...
++ How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
++ irons.
++ Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
++ likely
++ good for one PL259 soldering job.
++
++
++
++They show them soldering an IC. I don't think the IC would like that.
++
+ ********
+
+ Most ICs are tolerent to 400 degrees celsius for up to 10 seconds when
+ heat is applied to the pin. In IR assited reflow ovens, most
+ components on the board are subject to 275 degree C heat upwards of 45
+ to 90 seconds. Total reflow process time for surface mounted
+ components in a reflow oven is between 5 and 7 minutes. Most of that
+ will determine the pallete material that act as carrier for the PCBs.
+
+ FR4/5 laminate material will withstand heat around 300 degrees C for 7
+ to 10 minutes without discoloration or delamination.
+
+
+ james
+
+
+I haven't had a chance to see one in person. But from the commercial, it
+appears to look like an arc. That can't be good for sensitive electronics. I
+think I'll stick to my Hakko or my butane until I've had a chance to use
+one.
+
*****

No it is not an arc. One possibility is a conductive ceraminc alloy.
That would at least explain the rapid heat and cool down periods.
There are ceramics that can conduct and dissapate heat rather rapidly.

As for the Hakko, the hot air Hakko reflow units are real good for
surface mount devices. The only other item that I found better for
large ICs, 208 pin TQFPs is a hot plate.


james

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:12:19 GMT, Lancer wrote:

+On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:07:17 -0500, Scott in Baltimore
wrote:
+
+ Actually cordless soldering irons are preffered in small static
+ senesitive areas. Larger wattage irons that are plugged into AC
+ outlets can do more damage than cordless irons with static sensitive
+ parts.
+
+I use a 12 VDC iron plugged into a 13.8 V ps for sensitive stuff.
+
+Scott;
+ Its not the power it runs on, its the difference in potential
+between the tip and the device your soldering. If the tips not at the
+same potential (I.E. static) you can damage the component.
****

If you are working on a static free surface it really does not matter
which iron you use.

The most refered is hot air tools to remove static parts. Hakko makes
one as well as many others.

james

On 12 Jan 2006 10:32:57 -0800, "Professor"
wrote:

+Well... you guys can play around with your little toy soldering iron.
+I'll continue to use my http://www.hexaconelectric.com/thermo.html
+
+Professor
+www.telstar-electronics.com
******

FOr most surface mounted work I prefer a hot plate. Cheaper than hot
air rework stations and just as reliable.

james

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:51:25 GMT, Lancer wrote:

+On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:12:48 GMT, james wrote:
+
+On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:47:49 -0600, "DrDeath"
wrote:
+
++"james" wrote in message
++news:dfucs1ptthup70hipg899p0rfmdjkqcf8g@4ax .com...
++ On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:34:33 -0600, "DrDeath"
++ wrote:
++
+++"Clark" wrote in message
...
+++ How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
+++ irons.
+++ Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
+++ likely
+++ good for one PL259 soldering job.
+++
+++
+++
+++They show them soldering an IC. I don't think the IC would like that.
+++
++ ********
++
++ Most ICs are tolerent to 400 degrees celsius for up to 10 seconds when
++ heat is applied to the pin. In IR assited reflow ovens, most
++ components on the board are subject to 275 degree C heat upwards of 45
++ to 90 seconds. Total reflow process time for surface mounted
++ components in a reflow oven is between 5 and 7 minutes. Most of that
++ will determine the pallete material that act as carrier for the PCBs.
++
++ FR4/5 laminate material will withstand heat around 300 degrees C for 7
++ to 10 minutes without discoloration or delamination.
++
++
++ james
++
++
++I haven't had a chance to see one in person. But from the commercial, it
++appears to look like an arc. That can't be good for sensitive electronics. I
++think I'll stick to my Hakko or my butane until I've had a chance to use
++one.
++
+*****
+
+No it is not an arc. One possibility is a conductive ceraminc alloy.
+That would at least explain the rapid heat and cool down periods.
+There are ceramics that can conduct and dissapate heat rather rapidly.
+
+Yes it is an arc, I have one.
+
+
+As for the Hakko, the hot air Hakko reflow units are real good for
+surface mount devices. The only other item that I found better for
+large ICs, 208 pin TQFPs is a hot plate.
+
+
+james
+
+Even with a hot plate, you still need hot air on top on the desired
+component. Or are you planning on removing all the componets? My hot
+plate is set to just below the temperature that the solder will flow.
+A quic k blast of hot air to remove the component.
*****

I have used a hot plate exclusively. No hot air assist. There is no
problem with the reheat. The board is on the hot plate and off in one
to two minutes max. I have even reflowed BGA chips with little
difficulty and no loss of reliability.

james

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:46:25 GMT, Lancer wrote:

+Thats total bull****...What happens if your tip has a 1,000 of static
+on it? ESD control is supposed to eliminate the difference in
+potential. ANSI ESD standards state that "everything should be at the
+same potential" That means the operator or person, all test equipment
+and irons. Why don't you do a search on ANSI ESD standards and find
+out for yourself... You are cluesless about ESD...
****

IF you are properly grounded, once you grab the handle of the
soldering iron it will within seconds no longer be at 1000 volts
potential. Maybe you should also read your Ansi Standards a bit more
and understand static prevention. Once you are grounded touching any
other ungrounded object will dissapate the charge built in it. That
charge will drain through your body to ground within a very short
period.

Besides most ICs can shrug off 1KV with no damage. It is neat to see
what a 15KV jolt does to the poly layers and the protective zeners on
an IC. If you ever get a chance to do some electron scanning of static
damage to the die pad area of an IC, do so. It is a really neat to see
what 15KV can do.

james

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:53:22 GMT, Lancer wrote:

+On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:17:57 GMT, james wrote:
+
+On 12 Jan 2006 10:32:57 -0800, "Professor"
wrote:
+
++Well... you guys can play around with your little toy soldering iron.
++I'll continue to use my http://www.hexaconelectric.com/thermo.html
++
++Professor
++www.telstar-electronics.com
+******
+
+FOr most surface mounted work I prefer a hot plate. Cheaper than hot
+air rework stations and just as reliable.
+
+james
+
+Is that a George Foreman hot plate?
+
*****

Actually one that is generally used in a chemistry lab. 4 inch square
top surface or even a 3 inch diameter round will do nicely on small
PCBs that are about 2 - 4 square inches.

Oh it also is nice to place the PCB on a alumina ceramic plate about
100 mils think which sits on top of the hot plate. Makes a nice smooth
surface to slide the PCB off after heating it. A second ceramic plate
is nice to slide the PCB on to let is cool down on.

james

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:27:51 GMT, james wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:46:25 GMT, Lancer wrote:

+Thats total bull****...What happens if your tip has a 1,000 of static
+on it? ESD control is supposed to eliminate the difference in
+potential. ANSI ESD standards state that "everything should be at the
+same potential" That means the operator or person, all test equipment
+and irons. Why don't you do a search on ANSI ESD standards and find
+out for yourself... You are cluesless about ESD...
****

IF you are properly grounded, once you grab the handle of the
soldering iron it will within seconds no longer be at 1000 volts
potential. Maybe you should also read your Ansi Standards a bit more
and understand static prevention. Once you are grounded touching any
other ungrounded object will dissapate the charge built in it. That
charge will drain through your body to ground within a very short
period.

Besides most ICs can shrug off 1KV with no damage. It is neat to see
what a 15KV jolt does to the poly layers and the protective zeners on
an IC. If you ever get a chance to do some electron scanning of static
damage to the die pad area of an IC, do so. It is a really neat to see
what 15KV can do.

james

you evidently have never worked for a large company such as Northern
Telecom. If you mentioned you understanding of ESD during an
interview they would laugh you out the door. You are 30 years behind
in your ESD knowledge.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 21:26:35 GMT, gwb wrote:

+On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:27:51 GMT, james wrote:
+
+On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:46:25 GMT, Lancer wrote:
+
++Thats total bull****...What happens if your tip has a 1,000 of static
++on it? ESD control is supposed to eliminate the difference in
++potential. ANSI ESD standards state that "everything should be at the
++same potential" That means the operator or person, all test equipment
++and irons. Why don't you do a search on ANSI ESD standards and find
++out for yourself... You are cluesless about ESD...
+****
+
+IF you are properly grounded, once you grab the handle of the
+soldering iron it will within seconds no longer be at 1000 volts
+potential. Maybe you should also read your Ansi Standards a bit more
+and understand static prevention. Once you are grounded touching any
+other ungrounded object will dissapate the charge built in it. That
+charge will drain through your body to ground within a very short
+period.
+
+Besides most ICs can shrug off 1KV with no damage. It is neat to see
+what a 15KV jolt does to the poly layers and the protective zeners on
+an IC. If you ever get a chance to do some electron scanning of static
+damage to the die pad area of an IC, do so. It is a really neat to see
+what 15KV can do.
+
+james
+
+you evidently have never worked for a large company such as Northern
+Telecom. If you mentioned you understanding of ESD during an
+interview they would laugh you out the door. You are 30 years behind
+in your ESD knowledge.
******
Actually more like four or five years behind. I will admit that I am
not fully abreast on the 1999 ANSI standards.

Son I have worked in enough ESD sensitive areas for the better part of
23 yrs. You and others are very good in quoting standards, but have
really failed to understand what ESD is, how it generates and what is
needed to combat ESD. Various areas of the US is far more suspectable
to ESD than other areas of the US. Cold dry areas are more susceptable
tham humid and warmer areas.

My knowledge of ESD is good enough that I do not have to worry if I
ever decided to work for a large corporation again.

james