On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:31:56 GMT, Lancer wrote:

+ Maybe you should read Ansi standard ANSI/ESD-S20-1999. It states
+Soldering Irons should have a tip to ground resistance of less than 1
+ohm. Companies spends tons of money each year to prevent static
+damge, and that icludes insuring that everything is at the same
+potential. Including the operator and all equipment he uses. Thats
+why iron's that are ANSI rated have a third wire, the ground. It
+wasn't put there to prevent the user from being "shocked"
******

maybe you should study Coulomb's and Guass' Law and understand how
Static Charges are developed. A soldering iron sitting on a
anti-static mat plugged into the wall is not going to develope large
electrostatic charge.

What does happen is the tip of a soldering iron is in the strong field
of a time varying magnetic field. This comes from the inductance in
the heater coil. Putting the tip at ground potential will eliminate
any potential charge build up from the time varying magnetic field
from teh heater coil.

Battery operated soldering do not have time varying magnetic fields
near the tip. It will have a static magnetic field that is often far
weaker than that of a soldering iron that operates on 120VAC.

In ESD it is the rapid movement of charge that will do the damage.
Rapid movement of electric charge will result in high current in a
very shor time frame. Ampere's Law. Damage is severe when the change
in charge(Q) versus change in time(T), dQ/dT, is very small. The slow
movement of charge results in low current and therefore damage is
minimalized.

Yes repeated strikes of low level electrostatic charge can be as
damaging as one big strike of electrostatic charge movement.


james

"james" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 21:26:35 GMT, gwb wrote:

+On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:27:51 GMT, james wrote:
+
+On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:46:25 GMT, Lancer wrote:
+
++Thats total bull****...What happens if your tip has a 1,000 of
static
++on it? ESD control is supposed to eliminate the difference in
++potential. ANSI ESD standards state that "everything should be at
the
++same potential" That means the operator or person, all test
equipment
++and irons. Why don't you do a search on ANSI ESD standards and find
++out for yourself... You are cluesless about ESD...
+****
+
+IF you are properly grounded, once you grab the handle of the
+soldering iron it will within seconds no longer be at 1000 volts
+potential. Maybe you should also read your Ansi Standards a bit more
+and understand static prevention. Once you are grounded touching any
+other ungrounded object will dissapate the charge built in it. That
+charge will drain through your body to ground within a very short
+period.
+
+Besides most ICs can shrug off 1KV with no damage. It is neat to see
+what a 15KV jolt does to the poly layers and the protective zeners on
+an IC. If you ever get a chance to do some electron scanning of static
+damage to the die pad area of an IC, do so. It is a really neat to see
+what 15KV can do.
+
+james
+
+you evidently have never worked for a large company such as Northern
+Telecom. If you mentioned you understanding of ESD during an
+interview they would laugh you out the door. You are 30 years behind
+in your ESD knowledge.
******
Actually more like four or five years behind. I will admit that I am
not fully abreast on the 1999 ANSI standards.

Son I have worked in enough ESD sensitive areas for the better part of
23 yrs. You and others are very good in quoting standards, but have
really failed to understand what ESD is, how it generates and what is
needed to combat ESD. Various areas of the US is far more suspectable
to ESD than other areas of the US. Cold dry areas are more susceptable
tham humid and warmer areas.


Here in southeast Texas, we have like 7 days every winter when you have to
worry about it. The rest of the time you have to wear a sweatband to keep
the moisture out of your work.



My knowledge of ESD is good enough that I do not have to worry if I
ever decided to work for a large corporation again.

james

Lancer wrote:
Hey, Wal-mart is hiring... thats a large corporation..

Lancer

I wanna be a greeter' when I'm 75. Gimme' the smock. hehe

Lancer wrote:
So far we haven't had any winter.. looks like another year with 5 or 6
months of over a 100 degree weather...

That's bad man. You guys need rain and cooler temps no doubt. I almost feel
guilty going from cold ass snow to rain over here in the Buckeye. Wish I
could send some of it your way Lance. I seen some of those lawn fires on
the teevee..how close was that **** to you?

Ya' hate to ask for a deluge for fear of flood, but you guys need your
ground soaked just for old times sake by now..

Lancer wrote:
On 18 Jan 2006 23:33:08 GMT, Steveo wrote:

Lancer wrote:
Hey, Wal-mart is hiring... thats a large corporation..

Lancer

I wanna be a greeter' when I'm 75. Gimme' the smock. hehe

I love the greeters, nicest people in the store...

No doubt, perhaps you could strive to be one once you're old and creaking.

Lancer wrote:
On 18 Jan 2006 23:42:25 GMT, Steveo wrote:

Lancer wrote:
So far we haven't had any winter.. looks like another year with 5 or
6
months of over a 100 degree weather...

That's bad man. You guys need rain and cooler temps no doubt. I almost
feel guilty going from cold ass snow to rain over here in the Buckeye.
Wish I could send some of it your way Lance. I seen some of those lawn
fires on the teevee..how close was that **** to you?

Some were a few miles away, I set my deck on tractor as low as it
would go. And then took the wheels off the deck, cut everything
around the house right down to bare dirt..


That's pretty ****ed up, even if you speak Spanish and swing a machete'.
You guys are toasted..


Ya' hate to ask for a deluge for fear of flood, but you guys need your
ground soaked just for old times sake by now..

We do need the rain, even my old shrubs like photinias are turning
brown..

We are almost flooding in my little area, dang.

Lancer wrote:
On 18 Jan 2006 23:45:33 GMT, Steveo wrote:

Lancer wrote:
On 18 Jan 2006 23:33:08 GMT, Steveo wrote:

Lancer wrote:
Hey, Wal-mart is hiring... thats a large corporation..

Lancer

I wanna be a greeter' when I'm 75. Gimme' the smock. hehe

I love the greeters, nicest people in the store...

No doubt, perhaps you could strive to be one once you're old and
creaking.

Nah, We have our eyes on a motor home... sell the house and travel..
all we will need is beer money and gas money... :-)

Sweet program. Yore always welcome with free hook-up in Medina, old man.
(ewe new dat)

Gonna bring a couple good pics back from Daytona? Get one of Sterling
Marlin if you get the chance, please.

Lancer

This simple drivel has done nothing but dwindle done to a ****ing
contest and I am put of ****.

I recogneize that there are ANSI standards and I don't disagree with
any of them. I also have years of education and practical experience
with electrrostatics and how it forms and how it discharges. I don't
have to prove anything to a twit like you that can only quote
standards like it is a bible of some sorts.

You are arguing an issue by throwing standards up and I don't care to
argue standards. I made a statement and I still stand by it. All you
have done is through some standards in my face and failed to disprove
my statement.

Until you can prove me wrong in my original statement, I suggest that
any further discourse is a wate of my time and the internet bandwidth.

james


On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:21:18 GMT, Lancer wrote:

+On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:53:53 GMT, james wrote:
+
+On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:31:56 GMT, Lancer wrote:
+
++ Maybe you should read Ansi standard ANSI/ESD-S20-1999. It states
++Soldering Irons should have a tip to ground resistance of less than 1
++ohm. Companies spends tons of money each year to prevent static
++damge, and that icludes insuring that everything is at the same
++potential. Including the operator and all equipment he uses. Thats
++why iron's that are ANSI rated have a third wire, the ground. It
++wasn't put there to prevent the user from being "shocked"
+******
+
+
+
+....Snipped, because ANSI standards were written to take into acoount
+all the drivel you posted.
+
+I understand now james, there is ANSI ESD standards
+and jame ESD standards.
+
+And you think that james ESD standards are more correct, more
+accurate, and more accepted than ANSI.
+
+What other electronic standards have you written so that I can go
+though and replace all of my quality manuals that reference ANSI
+standards and replace them with james standards?
+
+Have a nice day
+
+Lancer
+
+james

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:27:21 GMT, Lancer wrote:

+Actually more like four or five years behind. I will admit that I am
+not fully abreast on the 1999 ANSI standards.
+
+Think so?
+
*****

I know so! Furthermore I do not have to prove nothing to you!

+
+Son I have worked in enough ESD sensitive areas for the better part of
+23 yrs. You and others are very good in quoting standards, but have
+really failed to understand what ESD is, how it generates and what is
+needed to combat ESD. Various areas of the US is far more suspectable
+to ESD than other areas of the US. Cold dry areas are more susceptable
+tham humid and warmer areas.
+
+No **** sherlock.. guess thats why you get more static shocks in the
+winter time?
+
+
+My knowledge of ESD is good enough that I do not have to worry if I
+ever decided to work for a large corporation again.
+
+james
+
+Hey, Wal-mart is hiring... thats a large corporation..
*******

So is Disney also. Maybe you should work there. You have brought
laughter to this thread.

james

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:43:14 GMT, james wrote:

Lancer

This simple drivel has done nothing but dwindle done to a ****ing
contest and I am put of ****.

I recogneize that there are ANSI standards and I don't disagree with
any of them. I also have years of education and practical experience
with electrrostatics and how it forms and how it discharges. I don't
have to prove anything to a twit like you that can only quote
standards like it is a bible of some sorts.

You are arguing an issue by throwing standards up and I don't care to
argue standards. I made a statement and I still stand by it. All you
have done is through some standards in my face and failed to disprove
my statement.

Until you can prove me wrong in my original statement, I suggest that
any further discourse is a wate of my time and the internet bandwidth.

james



I already did over a week ago, tips on soldring irons should be
grounded. So quit wasting my time...