Keith wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:56:50 GMT, "Dee D. Flint" wrote:


While not a violation of the international treaty, it would be a violation
of the current FCC rules. They are quite clear that Techs (at this time)
must have passed a code test to use HF.


NO! This is what the rules say:

s97.301(e) reads:

For a station having a control operator who has been
granted an operator license of Novice Class or Technician
Class and who has received credit for proficiency in
telegraphy in accordance with the international requirements.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^
(followed by frequency table)



Now we have the new regs from WRC that are NOW in effect. They require no morse
code test except set down by the administration so a tech licensee should be in
compliance with the requirement set down in 97.301(e) There is no requirement
for morse code test except for the requirement by the international morse code
requirements.


WRC has dropped the code requirement, the FCC has not as of yet, so
everything is still as before, nothing has changed. What a twit!!

On 25 Jul 2003 16:37:40 GMT, Alun Palmer wrote:

s97.301(e) reads:

For a station having a control operator who has been
granted an operator license of Novice Class or Technician
Class and who has received credit for proficiency in
telegraphy in accordance with the international
requirements.

(followed by frequency table)

The 'international requirements' (ITU-R s25.5) now read:

Administrations shall determine whether or not a person seeking a licence
to operate an amateur station shall demonstrate the ability to send and
receive texts in Morse code signals.

There is no international requirement for proficiency in telegraphy, so
arguably any Tech could operate on all the frequencies listed in the
table. Be prepared to argue it in court, though!

That is what I'm talking about. There is no longer a international requirement
for morse code so tech's can pick up the microphone and talk on 10 meters.
Here in America the FCC has to issue a warning notice, then a violation notice
and the person cited can then simply demand a hearing before a administrative
law judge. The ALJ is a pretty informal process and you just need to cite the
rules and they are not very strict when it comes to matters like these.
If you have a tech license and you operate outside your allowed bands like pop
up in the twenty meter band and keep it up they might come after you. But if
you meet the international requirements and stay in the HF TECH bands it is not
a violation of the rules and no one can verify if you have passed a horse and
buggy CW test any god damn way.


--
The Radio Page Ham, Police Scanner, Shortwave and more.
http://www.kilowatt-radio.org/

Keith,
What you don't seem to realize is that the 'rule'
you quoted is NOT law in this country. Until it has
been adopted, it's only a recomendation. So until
the new ITU recomendations are accepted by the US,
nothing has changed.
It doesn't matter if the 'no-code' rule WILL be
changed. Until it IS changed, there is NO change.
The ITU can't change US law, only the US government
can do that. It's okay to be happy about the proposed
code change, but don't be stupid...
'Doc

Keith ) writes:
On 25 Jul 2003 16:37:40 GMT, Alun Palmer wrote:

s97.301(e) reads:

For a station having a control operator who has been
granted an operator license of Novice Class or Technician
Class and who has received credit for proficiency in
telegraphy in accordance with the international
requirements.

(followed by frequency table)

The 'international requirements' (ITU-R s25.5) now read:

Administrations shall determine whether or not a person seeking a licence
to operate an amateur station shall demonstrate the ability to send and
receive texts in Morse code signals.

There is no international requirement for proficiency in telegraphy, so
arguably any Tech could operate on all the frequencies listed in the
table. Be prepared to argue it in court, though!

That is what I'm talking about. There is no longer a international requirement
for morse code so tech's can pick up the microphone and talk on 10 meters.
Here in America the FCC has to issue a warning notice, then a violation notice
and the person cited can then simply demand a hearing before a administrative
law judge. The ALJ is a pretty informal process and you just need to cite the
rules and they are not very strict when it comes to matters like these.
If you have a tech license and you operate outside your allowed bands like pop
up in the twenty meter band and keep it up they might come after you. But if
you meet the international requirements and stay in the HF TECH bands it is not
a violation of the rules and no one can verify if you have passed a horse and
buggy CW test any god damn way.


This is silly. Each country has it's own laws, and you are obliged
to follow them.

What has changed is that the treaty agreement whereby all countries
issuing amateur radio licenses are obliged to have a code test of some
sort for operating below 30MHz (or, was it a higher frequency?) is now
gone.

That means that each country no longer has to conform to that treaty
agreement.

They can, if they so choose, to eliminate their law that requires
code proficiency for amateurs operating in the HF bands.

But they are not obligated to do so.

Until a country changes it's law about this, everyone is obligated
to follow those laws.

Just because the treaty agreement is gone does not mean that there
is any more legality for someone who hasn't taken a code test to operate
at HF. Two months ago, someone could have done it, and if caught they
would face a certain process. If they do it today, and are caught,
they face the same certain process. Nothing has changed on that
account.

Michael VE2BVW

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:47:07 -0500, 'Doc wrote:

Keith,
What you don't seem to realize is that the 'rule'
you quoted is NOT law in this country. Until it has
been adopted, it's only a recomendation. So until
the new ITU recomendations are accepted by the US,
nothing has changed.

The 25.5 is automatically accepted by the US Government. The treaty has
already been previously ratified. The change is administrative and it is not a
new treaty.



--
The Radio Page Ham, Police Scanner, Shortwave and more.
http://www.kilowatt-radio.org/

On 25 Jul 2003 20:01:38 GMT, (Michael Black) wrote:

What has changed is that the treaty agreement whereby all countries
issuing amateur radio licenses are obliged to have a code test of some
sort for operating below 30MHz (or, was it a higher frequency?) is now
gone.

Read the regulation. The regulation indicates that according to international
morse code requirements the CW requirement is required. Well the international
regulations do not require a morse code proficiency for HF access.
97.301(e)
I guess it all boils down to what "IS IS".

BTW, what do you care about US regs if you live in Canada?


--
The Radio Page Ham, Police Scanner, Shortwave and more.
http://www.kilowatt-radio.org/

"Michael Black" wrote in message
...
Keith ) writes:
On 25 Jul 2003 16:37:40 GMT, Alun Palmer wrote:

s97.301(e) reads:

For a station having a control operator who has been
granted an operator license of Novice Class or Technician
Class and who has received credit for proficiency in
telegraphy in accordance with the international
requirements.

(followed by frequency table)

The 'international requirements' (ITU-R s25.5) now read:

Administrations shall determine whether or not a person seeking a
licence
to operate an amateur station shall demonstrate the ability to send and
receive texts in Morse code signals.

There is no international requirement for proficiency in telegraphy, so
arguably any Tech could operate on all the frequencies listed in the
table. Be prepared to argue it in court, though!

That is what I'm talking about. There is no longer a international
requirement
for morse code so tech's can pick up the microphone and talk on 10
meters.
Here in America the FCC has to issue a warning notice, then a violation
notice
and the person cited can then simply demand a hearing before a
administrative
law judge. The ALJ is a pretty informal process and you just need to
cite the
rules and they are not very strict when it comes to matters like these.
If you have a tech license and you operate outside your allowed bands
like pop
up in the twenty meter band and keep it up they might come after you.
But if
you meet the international requirements and stay in the HF TECH bands it
is not
a violation of the rules and no one can verify if you have passed a
horse and
buggy CW test any god damn way.


This is silly. Each country has it's own laws, and you are obliged
to follow them.

What has changed is that the treaty agreement whereby all countries
issuing amateur radio licenses are obliged to have a code test of some
sort for operating below 30MHz (or, was it a higher frequency?) is now
gone.

That means that each country no longer has to conform to that treaty
agreement.

They can, if they so choose, to eliminate their law that requires
code proficiency for amateurs operating in the HF bands.

But they are not obligated to do so.

Until a country changes it's law about this, everyone is obligated
to follow those laws.

Just because the treaty agreement is gone does not mean that there
is any more legality for someone who hasn't taken a code test to operate
at HF. Two months ago, someone could have done it, and if caught they
would face a certain process. If they do it today, and are caught,
they face the same certain process. Nothing has changed on that
account.

Michael VE2BVW


If the FCC decided to drop CW requirement totally they could still say the
TECHNICIAN is a VHF ONLY LICENSE. Or the could say its a VHF and 28.3-28.5
voice ONLY LICENSE.

In anycase I highly doubt the FCC will give the Technician ticket an
equivilant to a General UNLESS the Tech was issued prior to 1986 when the
WRITTEN was the same for Tech and General.

Get over it Keith.

Dan/W4NTI

I'd hate to be your underwear when the Uncle
asks you for proof of Element 1.

"Keith" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jul 2003 16:37:40 GMT, Alun Palmer wrote:

s97.301(e) reads:

For a station having a control operator who has been
granted an operator license of Novice Class or Technician
Class and who has received credit for proficiency in
telegraphy in accordance with the international
requirements.

(followed by frequency table)

The 'international requirements' (ITU-R s25.5) now read:

Administrations shall determine whether or not a person seeking a
licence
to operate an amateur station shall demonstrate the ability to send and
receive texts in Morse code signals.

There is no international requirement for proficiency in telegraphy, so
arguably any Tech could operate on all the frequencies listed in the
table. Be prepared to argue it in court, though!

That is what I'm talking about. There is no longer a international
requirement
for morse code so tech's can pick up the microphone and talk on 10 meters.
Here in America the FCC has to issue a warning notice, then a violation
notice
and the person cited can then simply demand a hearing before a
administrative
law judge. The ALJ is a pretty informal process and you just need to cite
the
rules and they are not very strict when it comes to matters like these.
If you have a tech license and you operate outside your allowed bands
like pop
up in the twenty meter band and keep it up they might come after you. But
if
you meet the international requirements and stay in the HF TECH bands it
is not
a violation of the rules and no one can verify if you have passed a horse
and
buggy CW test any god damn way.

While not a violation of the international treaty, it would be a violation
of the current FCC rules. They are quite clear that Techs (at this time)
must have passed a code test to use HF. Keep in mind that the international
treaty did not abolish the requirement altogether but simply let each
country set its own requirements of any where from no-code to whatever the
country wished. Our FCC rules have not yet changed so a codeless tech
operating HF is in violation.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:40:56 -0500, "Dan/W4NTI"
wrote:

In anycase I highly doubt the FCC will give the Technician ticket an
equivilant to a General UNLESS the Tech was issued prior to 1986 when the
WRITTEN was the same for Tech and General.

Get over it Keith.

You are not on track and are unable to follow a discussion. I am talking about
a technician class licensee having tech class HF privileges without the code
test. I'm not talking about making them to general.

Don't worry this is going to be reviewed legally very soon.

--
The Radio Page Ham, Police Scanner, Shortwave and more.
http://www.kilowatt-radio.org/