RST Engineering wrote:
That illegal transmitter put this kid into a 50 year career as an
electronics engineer with a lot of stops along the way.

My advice ... build a VOICE transmitter that has a couple of miles range and
let the kids have fun with it.

Licenses, we don't need no steenking licenses...

Jim



Andy writes:

And remember, it is much easier to ask for forgiveness than
for permission....

Do what you gotta do, but don't advertise. There is always someone
around who will try to make a big thing about it. And for goodness
sakes, don't tell anyone involved that what they are doing is illegal.
(Also, I would advise against posting this on newsgroups :))) )

Andy

RST Engineering wrote:


That illegal transmitter put this kid into a 50 year career as an
electronics engineer with a lot of stops along the way.

My advice ... build a VOICE transmitter that has a couple of miles range and
let the kids have fun with it.

Licenses, we don't need no steenking licenses...

Jim


And they say the American spirit is dead? They say the men have all
been "feminized" in America? They say the pointy-head attorneys have
brain washed everyone with threats of litigation? They say the
multi-dollar corporations now run the people like a heard of sheep under
thought control?

Hmmm, I wonder ... grin

Warmest regards,
JS

AndyS wrote:

...
And remember, it is much easier to ask for forgiveness than
for permission....

Do what you gotta do, but don't advertise. There is always someone
around who will try to make a big thing about it. And for goodness
sakes, don't tell anyone involved that what they are doing is illegal.
(Also, I would advise against posting this on newsgroups :))) )

Andy


AndyS:

To sum that up? "If all else fails play dumb?"

Hey, it has worked for me in the past! chuckle

Regards,
JS

Tim Shoppa wrote:

...
Ignoring your legal question, a suggestion:

Radio isn't too impressive among kids these days. Especially in
lesser-developed parts of the world (I honestly don't know how much
that overlaps with these kids?) everybody has a cellphone anyways.

Tim:

I really find there is a LOT of interest in radio these days.

Example:
The wife and I got a pair of maxon 49.??? Mhz communicators, vox, etc.
At first, we got them for the motorcycle we had, the head gear can be
jammed under a helmet and the transceiver clipped on a belt, great for
talking while going down the road.

Lately, with the super walmart and all, we have been using them while
shopping, it is always easy to locate her in the store and we can shop
together even though we shop apart. Or, I can wait outside and just
meet here when she is checking out.

Point is, I can't get through the store without someone striking up a
conversation over these things. If I mention other areas of radio I am
involved in, it can easily turn into an hour conversation ...

Point being, an interest in radio is actually easy to begin in others.
Biggest problem I have noted is that people just don't talk anymore,
with these "conversation starters" on, they do!

Regards,
JS

John,

So, say I had a CW oscillator on the colorburst frequency. I'll shunt
the output
with a 50 ohm resistor to ground. I'll put a random wire at the top of
the
resistor.

Basic equations yield P = (EE) / R

If R is 50 Ohms and maximum output power is 1.7e-9 watts, then E
is 4.1e-5 volts.

So, would a measurement of 40 microvolts or less across the resistor
be satisfactory?

Thanks,

The Eternal Squire

On Jan 25, 9:44 pm, "John" wrote:
wrote in oglegroups.com...

My question is this: so long as final output to the antenna is within
the requirement of part 15 unlicensed operation, is part 15 unlicensed
operation allowed within a band normally governed under part 97?
Part 15 operation would easily cover a 30 mile radius on 80M. http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr15_06.html

Part 15.223 says in part...

"Subpart C_Intentional Radiators
Sec. 15.223 Operation in the band 1.705-10 MHz.

(a) The field strength of any emission within the band 1.705-10.0
MHz shall not exceed 100 microvolts/meter at a distance of 30 meters.
However, if the bandwidth of the emission is less than 10% of the center
frequency, the field strength shall not exceed 15 microvolts/meter or
(the bandwidth of the device in kHz) divided by (the center frequency of
the device in MHz) microvolts/meter at a distance of 30 meters,
whichever is the higher level."

For CW operation, your bandwidth is zero for all practical purposes. You
will therefore be allowed 15 uV/m at 30 meters.

From this I made a very crude estimate of your allowed transmitter output
power. Assuming your transmitter antenna is 100% efficient and radiates
hemispherically, your transmitter output power is allowed to be no more than
about 1.7 nanowatts (1.7e-9 watts). For ideal circumstances (0 dB receiver
antenna gain, 100% efficient receiver antenna), you would get less than 5 uV
at a receiver 400 meters away. I stress that this is for ideal
circumstances. If your transmitting antenna is less efficient, you can run
more power, but less of your power gets launched. How efficient is that
antenna, anyway? On the other hand, your antenna may have some directivity
which would further limit your power.

This is making my head hurt.

All that can really be said about this estimate is that, to be safe, you
should not have much more than about 2 nanowatts output power unless you
have the ability to measure the field strength according to regulations.

Good luck with your project.

73,
John

wrote:
John,

So, say I had a CW oscillator on the colorburst frequency. I'll shunt
the output
with a 50 ohm resistor to ground. I'll put a random wire at the top of
the
resistor.

Basic equations yield P = (EE) / R

If R is 50 Ohms and maximum output power is 1.7e-9 watts, then E
is 4.1e-5 volts.

So, would a measurement of 40 microvolts or less across the resistor
be satisfactory?

Thanks,

The Eternal Squire


Good question. And, although I support the effort, which was stated, in
helping the youngsters--you also must recognize I would be slow to give
advice. I don't wish to invoke the pointy-headed attorneys when I have
no horse in the race ... grin

Proceed at your own peril ...

Warmest regards,
JS

John Smith I wrote:

But .0000000017 watts?

I thought we were talking a full watt!

(more of a pirate in me than some grin)

JS

John Smith I wrote:

Anyway, I would pursue this much differently.

Indian reservations are exempt from MANY of the rules, regulations and
laws the rest of us non-indigenous peoples are subject too.

I'd see if the above were not a factor in all this.

JS

Okay, suppose I make a colorburst CW oscillator and shunt it with a 50
ohm resistor.
I'd put a random wire at the top of the resistor.

So from basic equations P = (EE)/R, with a power limit of 1.7 nanovolt
this gives a voltage limit of 0.6 microvolt.

I'm afraid I don't have a voltmeter or scope that goes that low.

The Eternal Squire

On Jan 25, 9:44 pm, "John" wrote:
wrote in oglegroups.com...

My question is this: so long as final output to the antenna is within
the requirement of part 15 unlicensed operation, is part 15 unlicensed
operation allowed within a band normally governed under part 97?
Part 15 operation would easily cover a 30 mile radius on 80M. http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr15_06.html

Part 15.223 says in part...

"Subpart C_Intentional Radiators
Sec. 15.223 Operation in the band 1.705-10 MHz.

(a) The field strength of any emission within the band 1.705-10.0
MHz shall not exceed 100 microvolts/meter at a distance of 30 meters.
However, if the bandwidth of the emission is less than 10% of the center
frequency, the field strength shall not exceed 15 microvolts/meter or
(the bandwidth of the device in kHz) divided by (the center frequency of
the device in MHz) microvolts/meter at a distance of 30 meters,
whichever is the higher level."

For CW operation, your bandwidth is zero for all practical purposes. You
will therefore be allowed 15 uV/m at 30 meters.

From this I made a very crude estimate of your allowed transmitter output
power. Assuming your transmitter antenna is 100% efficient and radiates
hemispherically, your transmitter output power is allowed to be no more than
about 1.7 nanowatts (1.7e-9 watts). For ideal circumstances (0 dB receiver
antenna gain, 100% efficient receiver antenna), you would get less than 5 uV
at a receiver 400 meters away. I stress that this is for ideal
circumstances. If your transmitting antenna is less efficient, you can run
more power, but less of your power gets launched. How efficient is that
antenna, anyway? On the other hand, your antenna may have some directivity
which would further limit your power.

This is making my head hurt.

All that can really be said about this estimate is that, to be safe, you
should not have much more than about 2 nanowatts output power unless you
have the ability to measure the field strength according to regulations.

Good luck with your project.

73,
John

John Smith I wrote:
John Smith I wrote:

Anyway, I would pursue this much differently.

Indian reservations are exempt from MANY of the rules, regulations and
laws the rest of us non-indigenous peoples are subject too.

I'd see if the above were not a factor in all this.

JS

Just think! Instead of the Indians having a monopoly on all gambling in
California (yes, I know, it is really vegas using the Indians), they
could now go ahead and get a monopoly on all broadcasting!

JS