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#1
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Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4 wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m) Thanks, Nelson KE5MBX |
#3
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On Feb 12, 3:17�pm, "KE5MBX" wrote:
Hi, What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. *At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4 wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m) Thanks, Nelson KE5MBX If you are using TeraWatts of output power (unlikely) or wish to detonate a nuclear device (for its EMP or Electro-Magnetic Pulse), you are not going to blast anyone's rig or ruin their auto boom-box or even harm their ignition from a ready-built amateur radio rig. As the good "doctor" said, your ham radio test should have clued you in on what is considered "harmful" to humans. How about reigning in some hysteria and folk tales and concentrate on actual building-testing-slinging-solder radio-electronics instead of some fantasy notions? :-( |
#4
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On Feb 12, 6:17 pm, "KE5MBX" wrote:
Hi, What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4 wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m) Thanks, Nelson KE5MBX There are many times when "high" power has disrupted other devices. The early car computers have been know to shut down with 100 watts of VHF. Worked on a police car that the engine would shut off when over 80 mph and key the radio. A friend would be taking on his 1KW mobile as he pulled into his driveway. He would find his base radio receiver front end blown. Took three times to think it through and as he should have been doing, switch his base antenna (dipole over the driveway) to ground, when not in use. |
#5
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On Feb 13, 4:02�pm, wrote:
On Feb 12, 6:17 pm, "KE5MBX" wrote: Hi, What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. *At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4 wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m) Thanks, Nelson KE5MBX There are many times when "high" power has disrupted other devices. The early car computers have been know to shut down with 100 watts of VHF. Worked on a police car that the engine would shut off when over 80 mph and key the radio. *A friend would be taking on his 1KW mobile as he pulled into his driveway. He would find his base radio receiver front end blown. Took three times to think it through and as he should have been doing, switch his base antenna (dipole over the driveway) to ground, when not in use. Isn't that just ordinary RFI/EMI that can happen in a house environment? :-) Don't expect auto makers to RFI-proof their wiring without an extra kilodollar add-in to the sticker price. |
#6
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In article .com,
" wrote: On Feb 13, 4:02?pm, wrote: On Feb 12, 6:17 pm, "KE5MBX" wrote: Hi, What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. Â*At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4 wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m) Thanks, Nelson KE5MBX There are many times when "high" power has disrupted other devices. The early car computers have been know to shut down with 100 watts of VHF. Worked on a police car that the engine would shut off when over 80 mph and key the radio. Â*A friend would be taking on his 1KW mobile as he pulled into his driveway. He would find his base radio receiver front end blown. Took three times to think it through and as he should have been doing, switch his base antenna (dipole over the driveway) to ground, when not in use. Isn't that just ordinary RFI/EMI that can happen in a house environment? :-) Don't expect auto makers to RFI-proof their wiring without an extra kilodollar add-in to the sticker price. In Montana, there was a Sage radar, 5MW pulse power, which would zap your car radio when the beam crossed it. Fortuneatly this was in the 60's before the electronics control of your car's engine. The solution was to tilt the radar antenna up 5 deg. so both the town and the highway that passed in front of it were not impacted. Even so, I have tape recordings from that era which have a little zap in the every 12 secs as the lobes passed through town when the antenna rotated. Oh yes, and before the antenna was tilted, flourescent lights would also blink. Al |
#7
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What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4 wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m) About 2 years ago I was in a rather frivolous mood, brought about by a drop of absolute vodka. I wondered just how certain things reacted when put in a 750 Watt microwave oven. I first tried a new way of burning a CD. Amid sparks and a pyrotechnic display that appealed to my sense of ****edness, it sort of got crazy-paved. After about 20 seconds I had to switch off the microwave because of the stench. Then I turned to more "electronic" things. A Fujian MP3 player bit the dust instantly. Basically there was one huge "wooooofff!", then the PCB set fire to the plastic case after about 30 seconds. Then I tried an old hamradio rig. It was an old Trio (Kenwood in the USA) 2200GX, crystal-controlled rig, with a rubber-duck antenna, and a battery compartment that had not held batteries for several years. I put it in as it was, but without the mic. Battery door open, rubber-ducky antenna on. It sat there for about 15 seconds before anything happened, then the front panel sparked a bit and caught fire. The front panel looked similar to the CD, but a bit more melted-down, and the knobs had changed to a totally new shape. But apart from that, the radio itself still worked fine after a 30 second 750W cook. It just looked more of a mess then it did originally. Out of interest I tested it. I was expecting RF to get in the antenna and coarse its way through the PCB, but no! The RF sensitivity was 1.25uV PD for 20dB sinad. Perhaps that was 10dB down, but it was still quite useable The TX was still delivering 1.5 Watts. I took off the case and tried again, and THAT killed it for sure. After only 10 seconds the PCB "whooffed", with loads of sparks and spitting. But the point is that you cannot couple more power into a rig than that, even with the cover on. The antenna was connected, and 750 W did not kill it instantly, as expected. These rigs are far more resilient than one would imagine. BR Hairy NOSPAM_oeieio(at)hotmail.com |
#8
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On Feb 14, 5:31�am, Al wrote:
" wrote: On Feb 13, 4:02?pm, wrote: On Feb 12, 6:17 pm, "KE5MBX" wrote: Hi, What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. *At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4 wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m) Thanks, Nelson KE5MBX There are many times when "high" power has disrupted other devices. The early car computers have been know to shut down with 100 watts of VHF. Worked on a police car that the engine would shut off when over 80 mph and key the radio. *A friend would be taking on his 1KW mobile as he pulled into his driveway. He would find his base radio receiver front end blown. Took three times to think it through and as he should have been doing, switch his base antenna (dipole over the driveway) to ground, when not in use. * *Isn't that just ordinary RFI/EMI that can happen in a house * *environment? *:-) * *Don't expect auto makers to RFI-proof their wiring without an * *extra kilodollar add-in to the sticker price. * In Montana, there was a Sage radar, 5MW pulse power, which would zap your car radio when the beam crossed it. Fortuneatly this was in the 60's before the electronics control of your car's engine. The solution was to tilt the radar antenna up 5 deg. so both the town and the highway that passed in front of it were not impacted. Even so, I have tape recordings from that era which have a little zap in the every 12 secs as the lobes passed through town when the antenna rotated. Oh yes, and before the antenna was tilted, flourescent lights would also blink. The flourescent lights blinking on by themselves and buzz tones in the 16 mm motion picture projectors' audio were common at the Radar Basics classrooms of Fort Monmouth, NJ, in 1952. The high-bay where 1 MW peak pulse search radars were set up were constantly annoying the instructors across the street in the classrooms. shrug Got annoying to the students too. But, none of that was in the league of "frying auto electronics" nor any real danger to humans at a half block distance. |
#9
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On Feb 14, 8:26�am, "Hairy Lethal" (spellin
mistaik) wrote: What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. *At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4 wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m) About 2 years ago I was in a rather frivolous mood, brought about by a drop of absolute vodka. I wondered just how certain things reacted when put in a 750 Watt microwave oven. I first tried a new way of burning a CD. Amid sparks and a pyrotechnic display that appealed to my sense of ****edness, it sort of got crazy-paved. After about 20 seconds I had to switch off the microwave because of the stench. Then I turned to more "electronic" things. A Fujian MP3 player bit the dust instantly. Basically there was one huge "wooooofff!", then the PCB set fire to the plastic case after about 30 seconds. Then I tried an old hamradio rig. It was an old Trio (Kenwood in the USA) 2200GX, crystal-controlled rig, with a rubber-duck antenna, and a battery compartment that had not held batteries for several years. I put it in as it was, but without the mic. Battery door open, rubber-ducky antenna on. It sat there for about 15 seconds before anything happened, then the front panel sparked a bit and caught fire. The front panel looked similar to the CD, but a bit more melted-down, and the knobs had changed to a totally new shape. But apart from that, the radio itself still worked fine after a 30 second 750W cook. It just looked more of a mess then it did originally. Out of interest I tested it. I was expecting RF to get in the antenna and coarse its way through the PCB, but no! The RF sensitivity was 1.25uV PD for 20dB sinad. Perhaps that was 10dB down, but it was still quite useable The TX was still delivering 1.5 Watts. I took off the case and tried again, and THAT killed it for sure. After only 10 seconds the PCB "whooffed", with loads of sparks and spitting. But the point is that you cannot couple more power into a rig than that, even with the cover on. The antenna was connected, and 750 W did not kill it instantly, as expected. These rigs are far more resilient than one would imagine. Remember: All electronics works by means of smoke. If the smoke leaks out, it won't work... LA |
#10
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![]() "KE5MBX" wrote in message oups.com... Hi, What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? A couple of years back there were cars that included the caveat that any transmitter installation would void the warrenty. Now that everyone and their brother uses their cell phones in the car I guess they don't put that notice in anymore. Back in the mid 1970's I was in NROTC in college. There it was mentioned that an EA6B (the electronics warfare version of an A6) could pulse its radar and fry the electronics of a plane in the cone if it was close enough (under 1 mile if I recall correctly). Anecdotal stories like that are the source of electronic killing rf. That involved a multi megawatt microwave pulse, not something you would normally see in an amatuer installation. Living in an apartment, years ago I tried putting a 10 meter dipole across the ceiling in a stealth installation, I shut down when the residents above me complained that their tv would scramble while I tried running psk31. You may not blow out their electronics but can definately interfere with them if they are close enough. thanks, John. KC5DWD |
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