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#1
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Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc):
http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp? As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule? Or...? Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the terminology straight... Thanks. |
#2
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SparkyGuy wrote:
Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc): http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp? As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule? Or...? Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the terminology straight... Thanks. No soldering. You need the correct Paladin die. |
#3
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On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:48:14 -0800, SparkyGuy wrote:
Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc): http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp? As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule? Or...? Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the terminology straight... Thanks. The common BNC "crimp" connectors have you solder the center pin to the center conductor of the cable, then assemble the outer with a crimp. It works quite well in my experience, but I have yet to do this without distorting the center insulator and having to trim it with an X-acto knife to get it to fit, and I'm sure that in a critical application (like TNC in the GHz) that I'd be creating an unpredictable impedance bump with my hacking. This is bad enough with cables that have solid dielectric; I can only imagine the pain it would be with foam. In a production environment I'd almost certainly want to spring for the necessary crimp tool to crimp the inner, if the quality were there. (This is opposed to BNC connectors where you thread in a plug to capture the outer conductor between the outer shell and a rubber insert. It also works well, but it is bulky and the connectors cost more. And you're still asked to solder the center pin on, with all of the accompanying center insulator distortion issues). -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
#4
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On Dec 7, 4:23*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:48:14 -0800, SparkyGuy wrote: Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc): http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp? As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule? Or...? Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the terminology straight... Thanks. The common BNC "crimp" connectors have you solder the center pin to the center conductor of the cable, then assemble the outer with a crimp. It works quite well in my experience, but I have yet to do this without distorting the center insulator and having to trim it with an X-acto knife to get it to fit, and I'm sure that in a critical application (like TNC in the GHz) that I'd be creating an unpredictable impedance bump with my hacking. *This is bad enough with cables that have solid dielectric; I can only imagine the pain it would be with foam. *In a production environment I'd almost certainly want to spring for the necessary crimp tool to crimp the inner, if the quality were there. (This is opposed to BNC connectors where you thread in a plug to capture the outer conductor between the outer shell and a rubber insert. *It also works well, but it is bulky and the connectors cost more. *And you're still asked to solder the center pin on, with all of the accompanying center insulator distortion issues). -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consultinghttp://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes,http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems. I have an old Weller soldering gun with the tip removed. I wedge the pin between the two electodes on the gun, slide the pin over the tinned center conductor and pull the trigger for a couple of seconds. The pin cools almost instantly preventing deformation of the insulation. Ive been doing this for over 20 years using the same gun. This may take a little practice not to melt the insulation. I remember that it wasnt to bad getting the hang of it. Jimmie |
#5
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On Dec 7, 6:52*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Dec 7, 4:23*pm, Tim Wescott wrote: On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:48:14 -0800, SparkyGuy wrote: Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc): http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp? As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule? Or...? Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the terminology straight... Thanks. The common BNC "crimp" connectors have you solder the center pin to the center conductor of the cable, then assemble the outer with a crimp. It works quite well in my experience, but I have yet to do this without distorting the center insulator and having to trim it with an X-acto knife to get it to fit, and I'm sure that in a critical application (like TNC in the GHz) that I'd be creating an unpredictable impedance bump with my hacking. *This is bad enough with cables that have solid dielectric; I can only imagine the pain it would be with foam. *In a production environment I'd almost certainly want to spring for the necessary crimp tool to crimp the inner, if the quality were there. (This is opposed to BNC connectors where you thread in a plug to capture the outer conductor between the outer shell and a rubber insert. *It also works well, but it is bulky and the connectors cost more. *And you're still asked to solder the center pin on, with all of the accompanying center insulator distortion issues). -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consultinghttp://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes,http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html-Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems. I have an old Weller soldering gun with the tip removed. I wedge the pin between the two electodes on the gun, slide the pin over the tinned center conductor and pull the trigger for a couple of seconds. The pin cools almost instantly preventing deformation of the insulation. Ive been doing this for over 20 years using the same gun. This may take a little practice not to melt the insulation. I remember *that it wasnt to bad getting the hang of it. Jimmie Hey OM What size gun did you has a 240watt? How did you get the electrodes so close together? Isn't the center pin of an N connector really small? Or maybe you making lots 7/8 inch of heliax cables huh? Where the center conductor is like 3/8 in copper tubing. Where the 3/8 inch copper tubing would conduct all the heat away from the insulation? 73 OM n8zu |
#6
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On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:52:21 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote: Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems. In past life, in a land far far away (Smog Angeles), I once worked for and later ran a comm shop. At the time, UG-21/U male N connectors were commonly available and in fashion. Our 460MHz repeater systems were full of them so I had plenty of experience in soldering, assembling, and repairing these connectors. I don't want to remember all the 25 mile joy rides up the fire road to Santiago and Mojeska Pk just to fix a problem caused by a flakey UG-21/U coax connector. Well, to be totally accurate, I had equal problems with soldered PL-259 connectors. I fought these problems for years because I assumed there was no better way. Meanwhile, I was also involved in an avionics shop (on the business end). They were slowly switching from soldered to crimp type connectors. The owner insisted that is was worth the effort because the number of connector failures and rework had approached zero with the crimp type. I became a believer overnight. Many years later, I designed a few marine radios for the USCG. The specs would tolerate either solder or crimp. So, I asked which they preferred. Crimp was the answer, because they never could teach the techs how to properly solder a connector, while the crimper always does it right. All our radios used crimp connectors, even on the inside. Roll forward more years and we have 10Base2 and 10baseT ethernet. The former uses UG-21/u N connectors. The latter uses BNC. The nice yellow coax cable with the flakey connector was a constant source of headaches. The crimp type BNC's never failed (unless abused). I'm not sure what to suggest. With skill UG-21/u can be made to work. With luck, they can even be kept working in the field. However, I'll take crimp type any day, especially after many year of experience dealing with both. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#7
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raypsi wrote:
Hey OM What size gun did you has a 240watt? [snip] 73 OM n8zu Weller manufactures the following of that type of solder guns: 8200 = 140/100W D550 = 260/200W D650 = 300/200W See http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm I have an 8200. They make plain copper and iron-clad copper tips (the iron-clad tips last longer). The beauty is that, when your only tip goes open and the local hardware store is closed and you HAVE TO solder something, 12ga solid copper wire can be formed into a tip. ![]() vy 73, Bryan WA7PRC |
#8
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I still have a dual power (500/250) model Weller gun that a friend bought
while we were in the Air Force. He took it out of the package and dropped it on the floor accidentially. A tiny piece of non functional plastic busted off the top, so he threw it in the trash can (he was having a bad day). I pulled it out of the trash, plugged it in and showed him that it still worked fine. I then offered it back to him. He wanted no parts of it. I'm still using it to this day. That 500 watt heating range actually comes in handy now and then. Ed Cregger "Bryan" wrote in message ... raypsi wrote: Hey OM What size gun did you has a 240watt? [snip] 73 OM n8zu Weller manufactures the following of that type of solder guns: 8200 = 140/100W D550 = 260/200W D650 = 300/200W See http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm I have an 8200. They make plain copper and iron-clad copper tips (the iron-clad tips last longer). The beauty is that, when your only tip goes open and the local hardware store is closed and you HAVE TO solder something, 12ga solid copper wire can be formed into a tip. ![]() vy 73, Bryan WA7PRC |
#9
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On Dec 8, 11:12*pm, "Bryan" wrote:
raypsi wrote: Hey OM What size gun did you has a 240watt? [snip] 73 OM n8zu Weller manufactures the following of that type of solder guns: 8200 = 140/100W D550 = 260/200W D650 = 300/200W Seehttp://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm I have an 8200. *They make plain copper and iron-clad copper tips (the Hey OM But can you wedge a center pin from an N connector in between the electrodes of your 140watt gun (without a tip in the gun) and solder in the center conductor of a piece of coax? hmmm? 73 OM n8zu |
#10
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On Dec 8, 4:13*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:52:21 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE wrote: Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems. In past life, in a land far far away (Smog Angeles), I once worked for and later ran a comm shop. *At the time, UG-21/U male N connectors were commonly available and in fashion. *Our 460MHz repeater systems were full of them so I had plenty of experience in soldering, assembling, and repairing these connectors. *I don't want to remember all the 25 mile joy rides up the fire road to Santiago and Mojeska Pk just to fix a problem caused by a flakey UG-21/U coax connector. Well, to be totally accurate, I had equal problems with soldered PL-259 connectors. *I fought these problems for years because I assumed there was no better way. Meanwhile, I was also involved in an avionics shop (on the business end). *They were slowly switching from soldered to crimp type connectors. *The owner insisted that is was worth the effort because the number of connector failures and rework had approached zero with the crimp type. *I became a believer overnight. Many years later, I designed a few marine radios for the USCG. *The specs would tolerate either solder or crimp. *So, I asked which they preferred. *Crimp was the answer, because they never could teach the techs how to properly solder a connector, while the crimper always does it right. *All our radios used crimp connectors, even on the inside. Roll forward more years and we have 10Base2 and 10baseT ethernet. *The former uses UG-21/u N connectors. *The latter uses BNC. *The nice yellow coax cable with the flakey connector was a constant source of headaches. *The crimp type BNC's never failed (unless abused). I'm not sure what to suggest. *With skill UG-21/u can be made to work. With luck, they can even be kept working in the field. *However, I'll take crimp type any day, especially after many year of experience dealing with both. -- Jeff Liebermann * * 150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558 I dont have a problem with crimp on terminals just that where I work someone has always borrowed the crimp tool just when I need it. I always have my trusty soldeing gun handy, no one wants to borrow it. For me one is as easy and works as well as the other. The biggest problem I have with the non crimp type is the shield is eventually cut from the connector. The ones at work that are disconnected weekly for preventive maintenance have only lasted about 20 years before needing the connectors replaced, BUMMER. The crimp-on type are not without their problems. I was doing an inspection after some equipment installation and was able to pull the the ends off of 20 BNC connectors. The inspection stopped at that point and the decision was made to reaccomplish all of the connectors, about 200 of them. The installer was not happy. The problem turned out to be a bad crimp tool. Like the solder-ons if done properly they are both reliable connections. Jimmie |
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