Isn't free speech a wonderful thing? I followed the Tek thread with
interest and am wondering if the whiners actually:

1. Have a use for instruments of this caliber
2. Know how to use them properly

I have used Tektronix instruments for almost 30 years now, and don't
know how I could have got along without them. Most of my work has been
in commercial radio and television.

The manuals are written incredibly well, and I have received
assistance from tech support on devices more than 25 years old. Try
that with Hitachi, Leader or Phillips or Sony. And I could still get
parts for them!

I reflect with fondness on repairing a device like a waveform monitor,
more than 20 years old, and finding a small coil of silver solder on
the chassis in a place that was designed for it, tucked neatly in its
own "home." Tek has used silver solder for decades now...they have
always known it makes a better solder joint...and they want their
stuff to keep on working, 24/7 for years and years. So they put their
money where their mouth is, and provide the end user with what they
consider to be a lifetime supply (for that instrument) of the stuff.

And now I hear that they desroy their own equipment so they can sell
more new stuff?! Baloney.

I think I am hearing from people who not only do not understand that
"you get what you pay for," but have no use for the quality and
accuracy of the products they are complaining about.

Merry Chirstmas and Happy Holidays to all.

de WA2AFD

Well stated! Sparks

Well stated! Sparks

In article , haf47
@juno.com says...
And now I hear that they desroy their own equipment so they can sell
more new stuff?! Baloney.


You're wearing rose-colored glasses. They absolutely do destroy older
equipment via the trade-in "bounties" collected by resellers such as
Tucker. This is no secret in the industry.

That doesn't make them evil, and it doesn't make them "suck", but it
does (IMHO) demonstrate a lack of respect for the engineering ethos and
tradition that made the company great, while taking perfectly good
equipment out of the ham/hobbyist community forever.

You could divide the T&M equipment world into two categories: stuff like
logic analyzers and signature analyzers that's pretty much doomed to
obsolescence the minute the first pilot build rolls off the production
line; and gear like oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers that still
serves its original purpose decades after it's out of production. HP,
for instance, made a lot of great test equipment, but a lot of it fell
into the first category and nobody misses it much. For most of its
life, Tektronix focused on the second category: scopes, spectrum
analyzers, video monitoring equipment. In this regard, Tek's main
competition is themselves, which is a problem for them.

Whether I'm a hobbyist or a pro, I can (and do) use an old 2430A DSO and
2467 analog scope to do just about anything I could do with a new $6K
TDS3034B. That means that it's not really in Tek's best interest to
support their customers in their efforts to keep the old gear alive.

I think I am hearing from people who not only do not understand that
"you get what you pay for," but have no use for the quality and
accuracy of the products they are complaining about.

If you actually read the thread, you'll see that folks aren't
complaining about the *products* as much they are the company's support
policies and decision-making strategies. Yes, it sucks that they no
longer honor Howard Vollum's lifetime warranty on 535 power
transformers. It sucks that I can't get a replacement U800 for my 2467.
It sucks that they sold the chip foundry to a bottom-feeding IC company
known for promising the moon and delivering press releases. But Tek is
what it is. They still make good scopes, even if they aren't worthy of
the kind of adoration from the engineering community that they used to
enjoy. And their legal department is actually pretty enlightened when
it comes to granting permission to reproduce out-of-print T&M manuals
and documents.

-- jm

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx
Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam
------------------------------------------------------

In article , haf47
@juno.com says...
And now I hear that they desroy their own equipment so they can sell
more new stuff?! Baloney.


You're wearing rose-colored glasses. They absolutely do destroy older
equipment via the trade-in "bounties" collected by resellers such as
Tucker. This is no secret in the industry.

That doesn't make them evil, and it doesn't make them "suck", but it
does (IMHO) demonstrate a lack of respect for the engineering ethos and
tradition that made the company great, while taking perfectly good
equipment out of the ham/hobbyist community forever.

You could divide the T&M equipment world into two categories: stuff like
logic analyzers and signature analyzers that's pretty much doomed to
obsolescence the minute the first pilot build rolls off the production
line; and gear like oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers that still
serves its original purpose decades after it's out of production. HP,
for instance, made a lot of great test equipment, but a lot of it fell
into the first category and nobody misses it much. For most of its
life, Tektronix focused on the second category: scopes, spectrum
analyzers, video monitoring equipment. In this regard, Tek's main
competition is themselves, which is a problem for them.

Whether I'm a hobbyist or a pro, I can (and do) use an old 2430A DSO and
2467 analog scope to do just about anything I could do with a new $6K
TDS3034B. That means that it's not really in Tek's best interest to
support their customers in their efforts to keep the old gear alive.

I think I am hearing from people who not only do not understand that
"you get what you pay for," but have no use for the quality and
accuracy of the products they are complaining about.

If you actually read the thread, you'll see that folks aren't
complaining about the *products* as much they are the company's support
policies and decision-making strategies. Yes, it sucks that they no
longer honor Howard Vollum's lifetime warranty on 535 power
transformers. It sucks that I can't get a replacement U800 for my 2467.
It sucks that they sold the chip foundry to a bottom-feeding IC company
known for promising the moon and delivering press releases. But Tek is
what it is. They still make good scopes, even if they aren't worthy of
the kind of adoration from the engineering community that they used to
enjoy. And their legal department is actually pretty enlightened when
it comes to granting permission to reproduce out-of-print T&M manuals
and documents.

-- jm

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx
Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam
------------------------------------------------------

John Miles wrote:
That means that it's not really in Tek's best interest to
support their customers in their efforts to keep the old gear alive.

Isn't this where -- at least in the software arena -- the idea of
maintenance contracts comes in? Granted, the average hobbyist is typically
not going to buy into such a plan, but I would imagine most of Tek's sales
are to companies that would be willing to pay, e.g., 10-30% of the original
equipment cost per year for a guarantee that the equipment will be repaired
free of charge if it breaks. The new equipment is so much software-based as
well these days that Tek could also consider changing for software
upgrades -- although personally I'm quite happy that TDS3000 software
upgrades are free!

I am going to get myself a nice 2465B or perhaps a 2467 after finish school
and find myself a Real Job again -- in a sense those scopes seem like the
pinnacle of pure-analog scope development and even if they are only good to
400MHz, there'll continue to be plenty of designs that can be serviced by
such scopes for years to come.

It sucks that I can't get a replacement U800 for my 2467.

Ah, but wasn't someone mentioning that some third party is making compatible
replacements? It was supposedly very expensive, but if one person can do
it, surely others can as well -- and will, once there's some demand. Look
at the old computers such as the Commodore 64 -- these days people enjoy not
only completely emulating them in software (doesn't applies to scopes,
obviously) but also building equivalent pieces of hardware in FPGAs (e.g.,
the Commodore One).

---Joel Kolstad

John Miles wrote:
That means that it's not really in Tek's best interest to
support their customers in their efforts to keep the old gear alive.

Isn't this where -- at least in the software arena -- the idea of
maintenance contracts comes in? Granted, the average hobbyist is typically
not going to buy into such a plan, but I would imagine most of Tek's sales
are to companies that would be willing to pay, e.g., 10-30% of the original
equipment cost per year for a guarantee that the equipment will be repaired
free of charge if it breaks. The new equipment is so much software-based as
well these days that Tek could also consider changing for software
upgrades -- although personally I'm quite happy that TDS3000 software
upgrades are free!

I am going to get myself a nice 2465B or perhaps a 2467 after finish school
and find myself a Real Job again -- in a sense those scopes seem like the
pinnacle of pure-analog scope development and even if they are only good to
400MHz, there'll continue to be plenty of designs that can be serviced by
such scopes for years to come.

It sucks that I can't get a replacement U800 for my 2467.

Ah, but wasn't someone mentioning that some third party is making compatible
replacements? It was supposedly very expensive, but if one person can do
it, surely others can as well -- and will, once there's some demand. Look
at the old computers such as the Commodore 64 -- these days people enjoy not
only completely emulating them in software (doesn't applies to scopes,
obviously) but also building equivalent pieces of hardware in FPGAs (e.g.,
the Commodore One).

---Joel Kolstad

In article ,
says...

In article , haf47
@juno.com says...
And now I hear that they desroy their own equipment so they can sell
more new stuff?! Baloney.


You're wearing rose-colored glasses. They absolutely do destroy older
equipment via the trade-in "bounties" collected by resellers such as
Tucker. This is no secret in the industry.

snip

I would question this statement. I've seen lots of older 'scopes
and other gear at the Tektronix company surplus store, mainly 7000 and
11000 series.

I would be curious to know how much really is destroyed, and how
much makes it into the store's inventory. Perhaps someone who actually
works for Tektronix could comment?


--
Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m
Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available -
http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)

In article ,
says...

In article , haf47
@juno.com says...
And now I hear that they desroy their own equipment so they can sell
more new stuff?! Baloney.


You're wearing rose-colored glasses. They absolutely do destroy older
equipment via the trade-in "bounties" collected by resellers such as
Tucker. This is no secret in the industry.

snip

I would question this statement. I've seen lots of older 'scopes
and other gear at the Tektronix company surplus store, mainly 7000 and
11000 series.

I would be curious to know how much really is destroyed, and how
much makes it into the store's inventory. Perhaps someone who actually
works for Tektronix could comment?


--
Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m
Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available -
http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)

In article , Joel Kolstad JKolstad71
writes

I am going to get myself a nice 2465B or perhaps a 2467 after finish school
and find myself a Real Job again -- in a sense those scopes seem like the
pinnacle of pure-analog scope development and even if they are only good to
400MHz, there'll continue to be plenty of designs that can be serviced by
such scopes for years to come.
CRT/Analog scopes are superior in many ways that are seldom discussed.
Dynamic range is equivalent to 24 bits which with 200MHz is not
equalled in the digital domain.
--
ddwyer