On 30/11/2015 21:54, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.
There is good and there is cheap flood the market good .....

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios, especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


There was a transition. Early on, for reason I've never seen, Japan was
seen as cheap knockoffs in the US. That had to exist, but they also had
legit stuff, though maybe we simply didn't see the Sony stuff until later.

But Japan made inroads via relabelling. So Lafayette and Radio Shack sold
Japanese gear, except under their only labels. Some of it was bad, but it
was early transistor period, it didn't seem like anyone knew how to make
good solid state equipment. As the big names in the US faded, they were
buying Japanese. So my Hallicrafters S-120A, bought in the summer of
1971, was Japanese, I assume less a case of Hallicrafters going to Japan
and asking for a design and mostly an existing design that Hallicrafters
put their name on it. Drake had the TR-22 in the early seventies, a
portable 2M FM rig that could be had under other names. SOme of the best
inraods was because of the rise of 2M FM, the existing US base being tube
rigs intended for cars and the relatively expensive Motorola Handie
Talkies. So the Japanese came in either as rebadged or Inoue and Standard
etc. There wasn't much made in the US, at least not capable of making
enough.

ANd the Japanese also came via distributors. SOme of the big name ham
distributors had HF rigs under their own name, it was only after that
success that we started to see Yaesu and Kenwood coming under their own
name.

Michael

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios, especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

DIdn't the same thing happen in the UK? There were some UK based ham
manufacturers, didn't they too fade with the rise of the Japanese rigs?

Michael

On 11/30/2015 4:54 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

These were amongst the best radios around - especially Collins, which
was made to military specifications. But they couldn't compete with the
Japanese manufacturers with their low overhead.

Obviously, however, you have never owned any of these pieces of
equipment. While not having all of the features of newer gear, I would
still stack a Collins S-Line over anything manufactured today. Maybe
that's why they still run $2K US on the used market.

OTOH, I never saw anything worthwhile coming out of the UK. The only
decent radios from Europe were German.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On 11/30/2015 6:57 PM, Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


There was a transition. Early on, for reason I've never seen, Japan was
seen as cheap knockoffs in the US. That had to exist, but they also had
legit stuff, though maybe we simply didn't see the Sony stuff until later.

But Japan made inroads via relabelling. So Lafayette and Radio Shack
sold Japanese gear, except under their only labels. Some of it was bad,
but it was early transistor period, it didn't seem like anyone knew how
to make good solid state equipment. As the big names in the US faded,
they were buying Japanese. So my Hallicrafters S-120A, bought in the
summer of 1971, was Japanese, I assume less a case of Hallicrafters
going to Japan and asking for a design and mostly an existing design
that Hallicrafters put their name on it. Drake had the TR-22 in the
early seventies, a portable 2M FM rig that could be had under other
names. SOme of the best inraods was because of the rise of 2M FM, the
existing US base being tube rigs intended for cars and the relatively
expensive Motorola Handie Talkies. So the Japanese came in either as
rebadged or Inoue and Standard etc. There wasn't much made in the US,
at least not capable of making enough.

ANd the Japanese also came via distributors. SOme of the big name ham
distributors had HF rigs under their own name, it was only after that
success that we started to see Yaesu and Kenwood coming under their own
name.

Michael

Yes, there was some transition period when American manufacturers built
their equipment in Japan, due to the lower cost of labor (and parts).
But those American manufacturers required the Japanese to build the
equipment to the same specifications as the American factories did.

As a result, the American manufacturers were able to build cheaper, but
the Japanese got more experience in designing and manufacturing better
quality equipment. While American manufacturers won the economic
battle, Japanese manufacturers won the war.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 19:25:44 -0500, Jerry Stuckle
wrote:

ns as the American factories did.

As a result, the American manufacturers were able to build cheaper, but
the Japanese got more experience in designing and manufacturing better
quality equipment. While American manufacturers won the economic
battle, Japanese manufacturers won the war.

They've been taking revenge for Hiroshima for decades.

On 11/30/2015 7:31 PM, Rambo wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 19:25:44 -0500, Jerry Stuckle
wrote:

ns as the American factories did.

As a result, the American manufacturers were able to build cheaper, but
the Japanese got more experience in designing and manufacturing better
quality equipment. While American manufacturers won the economic
battle, Japanese manufacturers won the war.

They've been taking revenge for Hiroshima for decades.


Yup, if you can't beat them with military, do it with economics!

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On 30/11/2015 23:57, Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


There was a transition. Early on, for reason I've never seen, Japan was
seen as cheap knockoffs in the US. That had to exist, but they also had
legit stuff, though maybe we simply didn't see the Sony stuff until later.

But Japan made inroads via relabelling. So Lafayette and Radio Shack
sold Japanese gear, except under their only labels. Some of it was bad,
but it was early transistor period, it didn't seem like anyone knew how
to make good solid state equipment. As the big names in the US faded,
they were buying Japanese. So my Hallicrafters S-120A, bought in the
summer of 1971, was Japanese, I assume less a case of Hallicrafters
going to Japan and asking for a design and mostly an existing design
that Hallicrafters put their name on it. Drake had the TR-22 in the
early seventies, a portable 2M FM rig that could be had under other
names. SOme of the best inraods was because of the rise of 2M FM, the
existing US base being tube rigs intended for cars and the relatively
expensive Motorola Handie Talkies. So the Japanese came in either as
rebadged or Inoue and Standard etc. There wasn't much made in the US,
at least not capable of making enough.

ANd the Japanese also came via distributors. SOme of the big name ham
distributors had HF rigs under their own name, it was only after that
success that we started to see Yaesu and Kenwood coming under their own
name.

Michael

you certainly know your radio history ...but I still want another Clegg
FM27B .......you will be about the only person who would know what that
is....

Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

On 30/11/2015 23:58, Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65
the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable'
radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an
FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early
Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The
quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

DIdn't the same thing happen in the UK? There were some UK based ham
manufacturers, didn't they too fade with the rise of the Japanese rigs?

Michael
yes KW went west because couldn't compete as it was run by one english
bloke called Rowley Spears not a patch on Mr Hagasawa or Mr Inoue .....

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

On 01/12/2015 00:17, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:54 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

These were amongst the best radios around - especially Collins, which
was made to military specifications. But they couldn't compete with the
Japanese manufacturers with their low overhead.

Obviously, however, you have never owned any of these pieces of
equipment. While not having all of the features of newer gear, I would
still stack a Collins S-Line over anything manufactured today. Maybe
that's why they still run $2K US on the used market.

OTOH, I never saw anything worthwhile coming out of the UK. The only
decent radios from Europe were German.

yes all those big headed professional radio and electronics people in
the UK couldn't run a menage .....

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons