.... For those of us who became interested at the time of the
transition from thermionic devices to semiconductors, that
in 1965 a household might have less than 35 active devices
in total (25 in the colour TV, 7 in the transistor radio) and now we
have countless millions mostly in computerisation of one sort
or another.

Is it, I wonder the degree of integration in off-the-shelf
electronics that is the prime cause of the lack of technical
acumen and interest in home construction to be found
these days, especially in the under-educated NuHams
who cannot even tell one end of a resistor from the other?

On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 23:12:38 -0000 (UTC), Brian Reay
wrote:

gareth wrote:
... For those of us who became interested at the time of the
transition from thermionic devices to semiconductors, that
in 1965 a household might have less than 35 active devices
in total (25 in the colour TV, 7 in the transistor radio) and now we
have countless millions mostly in computerisation of one sort
or another.

Is it, I wonder the degree of integration in off-the-shelf
electronics that is the prime cause of the lack of technical
acumen and interest in home construction to be found
these days, especially in the under-educated NuHams
who cannot even tell one end of a resistor from the other?




Coming from someone who was afraid to attempt to use a basic amateur
transceiver due to a few missing pages, your comment is the height of
hypocrisy.


After all, many of your vapourware projects tend to be rather biased
towards older, simplistic, equipment- including things which are not even
active and were more typically perhaps 'novelties' over a century ago. The
type of thing many of us experimented with as youngsters but have since
progressed beyond. What was that analogy about amateur radio being a vast
pool to explore- not much point if you keep sitting on the side with your
toes in the shallow end talking about getting in- especially if you've been
doing that for 45+ years.


Nowt wrong with vintage radio Brian.

Why do you belittle those with an interest in it? I note that you
don't abuse your chum for his interest in vintage computing.

On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 09:23:04 -0000 (UTC), Brian Reay
wrote:

Rambo wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 23:12:38 -0000 (UTC), Brian Reay
wrote:

gareth wrote:
... For those of us who became interested at the time of the
transition from thermionic devices to semiconductors, that
in 1965 a household might have less than 35 active devices
in total (25 in the colour TV, 7 in the transistor radio) and now we
have countless millions mostly in computerisation of one sort
or another.

Is it, I wonder the degree of integration in off-the-shelf
electronics that is the prime cause of the lack of technical
acumen and interest in home construction to be found
these days, especially in the under-educated NuHams
who cannot even tell one end of a resistor from the other?




Coming from someone who was afraid to attempt to use a basic amateur
transceiver due to a few missing pages, your comment is the height of
hypocrisy.


After all, many of your vapourware projects tend to be rather biased
towards older, simplistic, equipment- including things which are not even
active and were more typically perhaps 'novelties' over a century ago. The
type of thing many of us experimented with as youngsters but have since
progressed beyond. What was that analogy about amateur radio being a vast
pool to explore- not much point if you keep sitting on the side with your
toes in the shallow end talking about getting in- especially if you've been
doing that for 45+ years.


Nowt wrong with vintage radio Brian.

Why do you belittle those with an interest in it? I note that you
don't abuse your chum for his interest in vintage computing.


I wasn't referring to vintage radio. You lack of technical knowledge has
let you down, as usual.


Read your own post again.

On Fri, 8 Jan 2016, gareth wrote:

... For those of us who became interested at the time of the
transition from thermionic devices to semiconductors, that
in 1965 a household might have less than 35 active devices
in total (25 in the colour TV, 7 in the transistor radio) and now we
have countless millions mostly in computerisation of one sort
or another.

Is it, I wonder the degree of integration in off-the-shelf
electronics that is the prime cause of the lack of technical
acumen and interest in home construction to be found
these days, especially in the under-educated NuHams
who cannot even tell one end of a resistor from the other?

That might account for recent things, but it took some time before surface
mount and really integrated ICs came along. And don't forget, most of the
semiconconductor manufacturers from 1970 have either changed drastically,
or the division sold off.

Yes, it is fascinating that the average home had so little electronics in
1971, and then circa 1975, there was an endless flow, if you didn't have
it, you thought about it. That is a major shift, and suddenly all kinds
of things that could cause interference, and all those clocks added in
because it cost nothing to add a clock function once the electronics were
designed (so you'd end up with clocks all over the place, none having the
same time, which then caused "atomic clocks" to become popular much later
when they became cheap).

But the introduction of ICs were a really great period. Lots of
interesting analog ICs, and they kept coming. There were some great RF
type ICs, which in the end died off because demand wasn't there, or later
shifted to other techniques.

But those National and Plessey ICs in the early seventies probably
increased building, a shift where "simple receiver" went from a regen to a
superhet, because the ICs made it simpler.

But circa 1971, the IC market was often for the non-consumer. It slowly
shifted to the consumer, which meant more and more specialized and
concentrated ICs that had little use other than in a specific circuit.
But the money was there, consumer electronics sold in way larger
quantities, and they needed it. A ham rig was too specialized, high
integration could bring the price down only so much, but save some money
on a consumer piece of equipment, and the price dropped quite a bit, which
was made up in large sales quantity.

Any consumer device, they started out expensive, big and using standard
parts. That applies to that dot matrix printer I got in 1982, any early
VCR, or early cellphones. You could open them up and see standard parts,
not just through-hole devices, but CPUs that were recognized and fairly
low integration devices that could be used elsehwere. But to bring prices
down for the consumer, they had to ramp up and manufacturing had to
decrease in cost, so they moved from metal to plastic and used higher
integration devices. So that equipment is fairly bare now, not loads of
ICs on multiple circuit boards. But they are also very much machine
built, since that's way cheaper. And repair is too expensive, compared to
the cost of the item.

Now things have changed, but this is about 50 years after the IC showed up
in hobby circles. Fifty years before that it was 1915, radio barely going
anywhere, tubes used only if you had the money and you were lucky.
Another fifty years, and things will likely be very different too.

SOme of the failure is more attitude. "We can't compete with the
internet" say the old men who forgot what it was like to be a kid and
learning about amateur radio for the first time. You don't compete, you
present the alternative. "Kids today use technology all the time", but
it's a mainstreamed technology, it's not about creating something or doing
something different, it's not even really about technology, it's about
using very advanced gadgetry. I knew someone who always complained about
"technology", but she drove a car, and the minute she got home, she'd
check her answering machine, and she was tied to her landline phone. SHe
was very mired in technology, except those things were mainstream.
Computes and cellphones and whatever have now become that sort of thing,
people get to be cool because they have the latest iPhone, but there is a
big difference between their skill with "technology" and some kid forty
years ago. Now, they are users, maybe more skilled than some, but they
don't really know technology. The kid in 1975 learning about computers
knew a whole lot more.

The minute people say "hams don't build anymore" is to be part of the
problem, because it's not true, even though it's now more hidden. But if
you start from that attitude, then you get real problems, like with QST
shifting technical articles elsewhere. They'd run articles on parametric
amplifiers and moonbounce and really down in the noise receiving
techniques, and whether or not most readers ignored it, it was there, no
extra step needed. Now they have "QEX" that costs quite a bit, and even
more if you aren't an ARRL member, and it has the technical articles.
When they aren't in front of you, then it's easy to be somewhere else.

Michael

On 08/01/16 22:59, gareth wrote:
... For those of us who became interested at the time of the
transition from thermionic devices to semiconductors, that
in 1965 a household might have less than 35 active devices
in total (25 in the colour TV, 7 in the transistor radio) and now we
have countless millions mostly in computerisation of one sort
or another.

Is it, I wonder the degree of integration in off-the-shelf
electronics that is the prime cause of the lack of technical
acumen and interest in home construction to be found
these days, especially in the under-educated NuHams
who cannot even tell one end of a resistor from the other?


Due to the availability of low cost micro controllers and computing
modules there seems to be an upsurge in home construction related to
electronics ,be it not necessarily ham radio .
The Makers World often focussing on robotics using cheap sensors
,Arduino , Raspberry Pi is alive and kicking and even rapidly expanding.

The Makers really know how to use electronic components .

In the ham radio community there are also groups of active "homebrewers"
although they might not hit the headlines any longer.

In ham radio , for most licensees ,the prime focus is on operating and
because of the availability of ready made equipment , often with an
acceptable price for many , home construction in ham radio overall has
steadily been in decline since WW2.
That is a fact and IMHO there is no reason to keep moaning about it.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH in IO87AT (a ham radio homebrewer)

"highlandham" wrote in message
...

In ham radio , for most licensees ,the prime focus is on operating

Then they are indistinguishable from CBers


That is a fact and IMHO there is no reason to keep moaning about it.

There is every reason to speak out against the dumbing down of a proud
technical pursuit

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"highlandham" wrote in message
...

In ham radio , for most licensees ,the prime focus is on operating

Then they are indistinguishable from CBers

As ably illustrated by the following :-

"Hello OM. My name is John Doe.

I live in Dopey Dumbsville Alabama.

My rig is an XYZ123 for which I paid 2345 dollars to the local emporium.

The antenna is a Butternut Squash.

I have neither interest nor knowledge in how
anything works because if it goes wrong the said CB emporium will fix
it for me.

It's been nice metting you, 73 and goodbye"

In rec.radio.amateur.equipment gareth wrote:
"highlandham" wrote in message
...

In ham radio , for most licensees ,the prime focus is on operating

Then they are indistinguishable from CBers


That is a fact and IMHO there is no reason to keep moaning about it.

There is every reason to speak out against the dumbing down of a proud
technical pursuit

I take it obtaining an amateur radio license is your only notable
accomplishment in life which would explain why you are such a self
rightous ass hole.

Here's a news flash for you:

Children were passing the tests over 50 years ago when they were much
more difficult.

Passing such tests shows nothing more than you are willing to put forth
the effort to learn a subject; it does NOT make you any better than
anyone else.


--
Jim Pennino

wrote in message
...
In rec.radio.amateur.equipment gareth wrote:
"highlandham" wrote in message
...

In ham radio , for most licensees ,the prime focus is on operating

Then they are indistinguishable from CBers

That is a fact and IMHO there is no reason to keep moaning about it.

There is every reason to speak out against the dumbing down of a proud
technical pursuit

I take it obtaining an amateur radio license is your only notable
accomplishment in life which would explain why you are such a self
rightous ass hole.

Here's a news flash for you:

Children were passing the tests over 50 years ago when they were much
more difficult.

Passing such tests shows nothing more than you are willing to put forth
the effort to learn a subject; it does NOT make you any better than
anyone else.


+1
--
;-)
..
73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint.
..
http://turner-smith.uk

On 10/01/2016 22:19, Brian Reay wrote:

Especially if, having qualified, and supposedly spent years building
kit etc., you don't know the basics.

I know what you mean. 40 years on and some planks can't even get the
basics of CW.



--
Extend ****s law - make 'em wear a cheat sheet 24/7