Has anyone investigated the quality/life/efficiency/MostBangForTheBuck/
whatever of ordinary AA (or other) cells? I recently saw the following
in a local sto

(I determined COST as the price for the most-economical
blister-pack divided by the number of cells in that pack.)

$ COST
EACH MANUFACTURER BRAND NAME OTHER CLAIM
------ ------------ ---------- ------------------------------
0.4435 Duracell CopperTop
0.4435 Energizer Max
0.81 Energizer Titanium
0.2875 Rayovac Alkaline Same Performance, Better Price
0.235 Rayovac Heavy Duty
0.36 (StoreBrand) Ever Alive

2.105 Energizer Lithium
2.4575 Energizer Rechargable
2.2425 Rayovac Rechargable
--
--Myron A. Calhoun.
Five boxes preserve our freedoms: soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge
PhD EE (retired). "Barbershop" tenor. CDL(PTXS). W0PBV. (785) 539-4448
NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor (Home Firearm Safety, Rifle, Pistol)

The problem with making comparisons is that the power you can get out of
most types of primary (non-rechargeable) cells depends heavily on a lot
of factors, such as:

-- Current drain
-- Duty cycle
-- Temperature
-- End voltage

In addition, some devices such as many GPS receivers have switching
regulators, which drain the battery at a near constant power rate.
Others drain at a nearly constant current rate, and still others with
more like a resistive load. Each type of cell behaves differently under
each condition.

Only a few rules of thumb can be put forth:

1. For heavy drain applications such as photoflash or an HT, alkalines
last many times longer than "heavy duty" carbon-zinc types, so the
latter is seldom an economical choice for those applications. Likewise
for applications with moderate but constant drain such as a GPS
receiver. Carbon-zinc is probably more economical (unless you use
alkalines from Costco or other discount store) for light-drain,
intermittent use such as a radio. Flashlights aren't light drain, but do
fairly well with carbon-zinc if used only occasionally. But I don't use
carbon-zinc for anything.

2. You're unlikely to see cell life increase anywhere near in proportion
to cost by using "titanium" or other "premium" alkaline cells -- their
special characteristics are mostly created in the marketing department.
If in doubt, consult the manufacturer's data sheet, readily available on
the web.

3. Modern NiMH cells have about the same capacity as alkaline cells --
more at very high currents --, and the capacity is quite constant over a
wide range of discharge conditions. A down side is the high
self-discharge rate -- they're not a good choice for something like a
flashlight that's used only occasionally.

4. I've never found a good use for the rechargeable alkalines. Their
capacity drops with each recharge and with increased current. At higher
currents, the capacity decrease is even faster. NiMH or primary alkaline
has been a better choice every time I've done a careful comparison.

5. The 1.5 volt primary lithium cells have more capacity than either
alkaline or NiMH, especially better than alkaline at high currents.
They're very light weight, have a long shelf life, and are excellent at
low temperatures. But they cost like the dickens. I keep a couple of
them in my emergency kit when backpacking or cross-country skiing as a
backup for GPS or flashlight, but don't use them regularly.

I've tested a good number of various alkaline AA cells at constant
current loads of around 200 mA, and found only minor and inconsistent
capacity differences among brands and types. Consequently, I usually use
the ones I buy at Costco for about 25 cents each.

If you have a particular application in mind, check the data sheet for
the performance under the conditions you anticipate. Then you pays your
money and makes your choice.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

wrote:
Has anyone investigated the quality/life/efficiency/MostBangForTheBuck/
whatever of ordinary AA (or other) cells? I recently saw the following
in a local sto

(I determined COST as the price for the most-economical
blister-pack divided by the number of cells in that pack.)

$ COST
EACH MANUFACTURER BRAND NAME OTHER CLAIM
------ ------------ ---------- ------------------------------
0.4435 Duracell CopperTop
0.4435 Energizer Max
0.81 Energizer Titanium
0.2875 Rayovac Alkaline Same Performance, Better Price
0.235 Rayovac Heavy Duty
0.36 (StoreBrand) Ever Alive

2.105 Energizer Lithium
2.4575 Energizer Rechargable
2.2425 Rayovac Rechargable

" bravely wrote to "All" (03 Nov 05 13:46:08)
--- on the heady topic of "Battery quality/life/efficiency/MostBangForTheBuck/whatever"

mc From:
mc Xref: core-easynews rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:88699

mc Has anyone investigated the
mc quality/life/efficiency/MostBangForTheBuck/ whatever of ordinary AA (or
mc other) cells? I recently saw the following in a local sto

mc (I determined COST as the price for the most-economical
mc blister-pack divided by the number of cells in that pack.)

mc $ COST
mc EACH MANUFACTURER BRAND NAME OTHER CLAIM
mc ------ ------------ ---------- ------------------------------
mc 0.4435 Duracell CopperTop
mc 0.4435 Energizer Max
mc 0.81 Energizer Titanium
mc 0.2875 Rayovac Alkaline Same Performance, Better Price
mc 0.235 Rayovac Heavy Duty
mc 0.36 (StoreBrand) Ever Alive

mc 2.105 Energizer Lithium
mc 2.4575 Energizer Rechargable
mc 2.2425 Rayovac Rechargable
mc --
mc --Myron A. Calhoun.


Have a look at AAA's for a chuckle. If we compare them by mass, one
gets 4 times less in AAA's (2 cells) than in AA's (4 cells) for the
*same* price. The battery makers must be giggling all the way to the
bank over this one. Howver, my remote control doesn't care if it is a
fine vintage Union Carbide or a China special. That will have an
effect eventually, especially in lost jobs.

A*s*i*m*o*v

.... I came, I saw, I got sidetracked, I forgot why I was here.

"Roy Lewallen" bravely wrote to "All" (03 Nov 05 16:08:56)
--- on the heady topic of " Battery
quality/life/efficiency/MostBangForTheBuck/whatever"

RL From: Roy Lewallen
RL Antenna Software Xref: core-easynews rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:88706


RL The problem with making comparisons is that the power you can get out
RL of most types of primary (non-rechargeable) cells depends heavily on a
RL lot of factors, such as:

RL -- Current drain
RL -- Duty cycle
RL -- Temperature
RL -- End voltage

There is another factor I've discovered for a cell's usage in audio
applications such as a battery powered portable mixer or especially an
electret microphone. Alkaline cells seem to be plagued with pops and
ticks while carbon cells are dead quiet in comparison. Since most
electret mics have very simple electronics with no voltage regulation,
the battery must be extremely quiet. Unfortunately I don't have the
numbers on hand to document my experience but this is just to comment
that sometimes there are other factors (noise) which may make a cell
type more desirable for very specific applications. For example
electric guitar players are sticklers for the type of square 9 volt
batteries that go into their vintage pedals.

A*s*i*m*o*v

.... May you find the light and walk the mountain tops.

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:11:01 GMT, "Asimov"
wrote:

" bravely wrote to "All" (03 Nov 05 13:46:08)
--- on the heady topic of "Battery quality/life/efficiency/MostBangForTheBuck/whatever"

mc From:
mc Xref: core-easynews rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:88699

mc Has anyone investigated the
mc quality/life/efficiency/MostBangForTheBuck/ whatever of ordinary AA (or
mc other) cells? I recently saw the following in a local sto

mc (I determined COST as the price for the most-economical
mc blister-pack divided by the number of cells in that pack.)

mc $ COST
mc EACH MANUFACTURER BRAND NAME OTHER CLAIM
mc ------ ------------ ---------- ------------------------------
mc 0.4435 Duracell CopperTop
mc 0.4435 Energizer Max
mc 0.81 Energizer Titanium
mc 0.2875 Rayovac Alkaline Same Performance, Better Price
mc 0.235 Rayovac Heavy Duty
mc 0.36 (StoreBrand) Ever Alive

mc 2.105 Energizer Lithium
mc 2.4575 Energizer Rechargable
mc 2.2425 Rayovac Rechargable
mc --
mc --Myron A. Calhoun.


Have a look at AAA's for a chuckle. If we compare them by mass, one
gets 4 times less in AAA's (2 cells) than in AA's (4 cells) for the
*same* price. The battery makers must be giggling all the way to the
bank over this one. Howver, my remote control doesn't care if it is a
fine vintage Union Carbide or a China special. That will have an
effect eventually, especially in lost jobs.

A*s*i*m*o*v

... I came, I saw, I got sidetracked, I forgot why I was here.


From a manufacturer's point of view AA and AAA probably cost about
the same. Small long tubes are harder to draw and fill without
rejects. What really annoys me is the way designers are pushing
toward AAA in LED flashlights and small portable radios to keep the
weight/size down. I would much rather have AA.

I generally stock up on Energizer batteries by buying them in the bulk
pack from Home Depot.

For AA Energizer Max Alkaline cells, a package of 36 is $9.75 or $0.27
each. AAA, C, D and 9-volt batteries are similarly discounted. Home
Depot seems like an odd place to purchase batteries, still they have
the best prices by a wide margin.

I've personally had bad experiences with Duracell Copper Tops (very
erratic cell life when used in series), so I switched to Energizer and
have never seen that problem again.

let me clarify what I mean by a bad experience. My hand-held Lorain
receiver uses (IIRC) 9 AA cells connected in series. Using Duracells,
I've twice had one of the 9 batteries prematurely fail, with the
remaining 8 only partially discharged. Consequently you replace all 9
cells. The first time this happened I was just sitting on my boat
playing with the Lorain. The second time it happened was in the middle
of a line squall while 4-miles or so offshore of Cape Ann in
Massachusetts. When I asked the Lorain to take me home, it faltered
and quit due to the premature failure of one of the Duracell batteries
at a time when I was nearly knee deep in water in the boat's cockpit
(it's a 23' Hutchins Compac cruising sailboat). As a result, I was damn
lucky to reach the shelter of the Annisquam River while believing I was
entering the inlet to Plum Island Sound at Ipswich under nearly zero
visibility conditions.

It surfices to say that I will never again purchase a Duracell battery.
They are not reliable. Energizer seems to be.

Just my experience, which I thought that I should share with others.

Harry C.

In article ,
Roy Lewallen wrote:

| Only a few rules of thumb can be put forth:
|
| 1. For heavy drain applications such as photoflash or an HT, alkalines
| last many times longer than "heavy duty" carbon-zinc types, so the
| latter is seldom an economical choice for those applications. Likewise
| for applications with moderate but constant drain such as a GPS
| receiver. Carbon-zinc is probably more economical (unless you use
| alkalines from Costco or other discount store)

.... well, if you're looking for the most bang-for-your-buck, you
SHOULD be getting the non name brand alkalines

Personally, I've not found carbon-zinc batteries to be more
economical, unless you're not actually using them.

| But I don't use carbon-zinc for anything.

Me neither.

| 3. Modern NiMH cells have about the same capacity as alkaline cells

In my experience, the alkaline cells have higher capacities, about
twice as high.

| more at very high currents -- and the capacity is quite constant
| over a wide range of discharge conditions.

And this is very true. The alkalines suffer greatly if you discharge
at a high rate, where the NiMH cells do just fine.

| A down side is the high self-discharge rate -- they're not a good
| choice for something like a flashlight that's used only
| occasionally.

Yup. NiCd cells are better, but still nowhere near as good as
alkaline or lithium cells with regard to self discharge rates.

--
Doug McLaren,
`Ever heard of .cshrc? That's a city in Bosnia. Right?' -- Discussion in
comp.os.linux.misc on the intuitiveness of commands

Even with moderately high self-discharge rates, I'm finding NiMH AAs to
be a good solution for most applications where I use AAs. I just cycle
them through the recharger occasionally. I have enough extras, and
recharging is so fast, that it's not a problem to me if I forget and
let a set discharge to where I have to put in a new set. Noteable
exceptions: very low drain devices like smoke detectors and remote
control transmitters that will run for a year or more on alkalines.
Digital cameras, particularly, show off the advantages of the NiMHs:
alkalines just don't cut it in mine (unuseable after five or ten
pictures, compared with dozens for one charge on NiMHs), though I've
heard that the alkalines specially designed for digital cameras are at
least useable.

There's a lot of misinformation about batteries of various kinds out
there. I've found http://www.batteryuniversity.com/ to be an easy to
understand source of generally very good information about a lot of
different types of batteries. It mostly covers rechargables, but
there's some info about alkalines in there.

A friend who uses alkalines in his insulin pump told me he was
surprised to find that, in that particular application, he's seeing a
significant difference between standard Duracell and Energizer alkaline
AAs. "Your mileage may vary."

Cheers,
Tom

K7ITM wrote:
A friend who uses alkalines in his insulin pump told me he was
surprised to find that, in that particular application, he's seeing a
significant difference between standard Duracell and Energizer alkaline
AAs. "Your mileage may vary."

I've always had horrible luck with Duracells. Every five years or so I
go out and buy another set to remind myself of this, but the results are
never different.

Harry G. mentions getting good prices on Energizers at Home Depot. Seems
like the HD stores around here never ever have the good deals I read about
from other people on the 'net; batteries there are about the same price as
Walgreen's around here. People talk about borrowing free tools to replace
cartridges in Moen faucets and then getting free replacements at HD; ours
will sell us a plastic tool for $18 and then we get to decide which size
cartridge is appropriate, at full retail price, of course. But the (local?)
Menard's chain usually has Ray-O-Vac AA's at 30 for $9.99, and I get great
life out of them, nearly as good as the Energizers for about half the price.

Roy Lewallen mentions Costco; they haven't had their particular brand
(40 for $10) for literally years here, all they sell is Duracells now
and they want 25% more than Menard's and the Ray-O-Vacs.

Doug McLaren mentioned his experience that alkalines have higher
capacities than rechargeables, but I'm finding that my new Eveready
2500 mAH NiMH batteries compete quite well with a fresh set of Energizers.
KenRockwell.com lists alkalines at 2700 to 3135 mAH, sounds reasonable.

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

Of possible interest
The Great Battery Shootout! by Dave Etchells

URL:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM

--
CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be !






"K7ITM" wrote in message
ups.com...
Even with moderately high self-discharge rates, I'm finding NiMH AAs to
be a good solution for most applications where I use AAs. I just cycle
them through the recharger occasionally. I have enough extras, and
recharging is so fast, that it's not a problem to me if I forget and
let a set discharge to where I have to put in a new set. Noteable
exceptions: very low drain devices like smoke detectors and remote
control transmitters that will run for a year or more on alkalines.
Digital cameras, particularly, show off the advantages of the NiMHs:
alkalines just don't cut it in mine (unuseable after five or ten
pictures, compared with dozens for one charge on NiMHs), though I've
heard that the alkalines specially designed for digital cameras are at
least useable.

There's a lot of misinformation about batteries of various kinds out
there. I've found http://www.batteryuniversity.com/ to be an easy to
understand source of generally very good information about a lot of
different types of batteries. It mostly covers rechargables, but
there's some info about alkalines in there.

A friend who uses alkalines in his insulin pump told me he was
surprised to find that, in that particular application, he's seeing a
significant difference between standard Duracell and Energizer alkaline
AAs. "Your mileage may vary."

Cheers,
Tom