"Pat Cook" wrote:

I'd offer it as a point of debate Jim (Curiously of course ). What
*would* your new organization offer that ARRL & the many, many other
worldwide clubs don't already offer, Klystron & Iitoi?


The objective would be to provide an organization to those hams who
wish to make ham radio innovative and progressive (again). By
comparison, the ARRL exists to serve those hams who wish to keep ham
radio retrogressive, insular and xenophobic. Certain technologies would
be championed (digital voice, digital data, e.g.) while other
technologies would be abandoned to their fate (Morse).


I'm a member of one of the local clubs here in Denver. I'm also one of
those hams who IS NOT a member of ARRL itself. It's NOT because I don't
want to be. It's just that, with a fixed income, if I were to go pluncking
down PRECIOUS $$$ left and right for each and every organization covering
each and every interest of mine, I'd not only go insane, but I'd also GO
BROKE. As such, I have to ask myself WHERE DOES IT END? I don't *need* QST
Magazine to keep me updated on the world of Amateur Radio. Besides...Quite
frankly, compared to Newsline and ARRL Audio News & the ARRL Newsletter,
ANYTHING in QST Magazine would be DATED INFORMATION by the time I got it
anyway.

True, ARRL does do some valuable things for the Amateur Radio Service and
since I *am* a validly licensed Ham, they *do* represent me in various
political and legal capacities (For which I am eternally grateful BTW), I
still see a reason to join them if they're going to represent me anyway.
They know my position on various issues because much the same sentiment is
shared by SCORES of Hams like me. And many of those Hams have made their
sentiments public. I don't need to submit what would sound like a broken
record in the eyes of ARRL because they've heard it many times before.


If you look at those organizations that are EFFECTIVE in representing
their members and advancing the members' agenda (NRA, teachers' union,
tobacco lobby, trade associations that represent defense contractors,
etc.), certain patterns emerge, regardless of the nature of the
organization or the type of agenda. Such organizations tend to be
politically astute when dealing with government. They use PAC's, they
organize letter writing campaigns, they advise their members on the
voting records of their elected officials, they can deliver votes in
support of those who help them and in support of the OPPONENTS of those
who oppose them. Further, such constituencies often have MULTIPLE
organizations that pursue their agenda separately and with varying
levels of militancy (you will recall the fiasco when the NRA tried to
pull even with its more militant rivals by speaking of "jackbooted
thugs," which was a rare misstep by private-sector Beltway insiders). By
comparison, the ARRL's approach of being the FCC's lapdog is laughable.
If we haven't lost as much spectrum as we might have, it is certainly
not the result of astute lobbying.


Well...I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. So I ask
again....What *would* your new organization offer that ARRL & the many, many
other worldwide clubs don't already offer, Klystron & Iitoi? I'm really
curious.


Long story short: Once upon a time, hams were viewed as 'rocket
scientists' and were a force for progress and innovation. Now, they're
viewed as cranky old geezers who are living in the past and pounding
Samuel Morse' old telegraph key while whining about young
whippersnappers who don't respect their elders. A new organization would
break free of that past and move forward. It goes without saying that
ARRL types will not want this and will try to stop it.

On Jun 28, 12:30?pm, wrote:

ARRL publishes a wide range of books and
periodicals, has the Maxim Memorial station
on the air every day, sponsors a wide variety
of contests and operating activities, is
present at most major hamfests, is constantly
involved with FCC, has the QSL bureau, ARRL
VEC, and a host of other things, all amateur
radio related.

One more thing ARRL does: in-depth, Consumer-Reports-style Product
Reviews.

The ARRL Lab runs Amateur-Radio-related products
through a wide variety of independent lab tests and
on-the-air operating environments, and publishes detailed
reports of the results. They've been that sort of review
for over 25 years, and the Product Reviews from all that time are
available to members free.

Want to know the difference between a TS-950SD
and a TS-950SDX, or compare them to a current-
production rig? Just download the reviews.

In some cases, such as the Elecraft K2, there is an expanded review at
the website.

The way I figure it, if a Product Review from ARRL helps me make
better-informed choices, the whole cost of membership may be recouped
in savings. One Maxcom
Matcher situation can spare a lot of hams a lot of expense
and wasted effort. (A Maxcom Matcher cost about as much
as an ARRL Life Membership at the time).

Yes, there are product reviews on websites like eham.net.
They are valuable because they are owner's opinions and experiences.
But AFAIK, nobody does extensive
independent lab testing of amateur gear except ARRL.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Klystron wrote in
:

"Pat Cook" wrote:

I'd offer it as a point of debate Jim (Curiously of course ). What
*would* your new organization offer that ARRL & the many, many other
worldwide clubs don't already offer, Klystron & Iitoi?


The objective would be to provide an organization to those hams who
wish to make ham radio innovative and progressive (again). By
comparison, the ARRL exists to serve those hams who wish to keep ham
radio retrogressive, insular and xenophobic. Certain technologies
would be championed (digital voice, digital data, e.g.) while other
technologies would be abandoned to their fate (Morse).

Now that you have made the rather strong claims, will you be able
to provide some evidence? If you start your organization, you'll be asked
to "prove it" by people who will be a lot less kindly than me.

What are some examples of ARRL catering to retrogressive Hams?

ARRL caters to a large and varied group of Hams. While some issues
deal with vintage radio, others deal with antennas, all kinds of
subjects.

Some examples of catering to insular Hams?

ARRL is constantly experimenting with methods to attract new blood.
I've used some of the material to attract new Ham in my area. I couldn't
disagree more with your assertion. The results are a 2 percent growth in
our area.

Some examples of Xenophobia?


I really don't know how to approach this one.


If you look at those organizations that are EFFECTIVE in
representing their members and advancing the members' agenda (NRA,
teachers' union,
tobacco lobby, trade associations that represent defense contractors,
etc.), certain patterns emerge,

snip


What is your fund raising approach? All of those groups have some
pretty deep pockets. You are going to have to raise a lot of money in
order to operate as they do. There are 625,000 of us, and with all due
respect, you're present approach alienates a lot of them. So you are
going to have to generate those funds from say 300.00 people tops;
probably a lot less.



Well...I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. So I ask
again....What *would* your new organization offer that ARRL & the
many, many other worldwide clubs don't already offer, Klystron &
Iitoi? I'm really curious.


Long story short: Once upon a time, hams were viewed as 'rocket
scientists' and were a force for progress and innovation. Now, they're
viewed as cranky old geezers who are living in the past and pounding
Samuel Morse' old telegraph key while whining about young
whippersnappers who don't respect their elders. A new organization
would break free of that past and move forward. It goes without saying
that ARRL types will not want this and will try to stop it.

Might I respectfully suggest that you are engaging is some serious
profiling? In addition, some proof would go a long way to advance your
argument.

I haven't been able to find any evidence of ARRL's "serving" of the
amateurs you've mentioned above. The closest thing to it is on the QST
opinion pages, and people are entitled to their opinions. A look at their
web pages doesn't show any evidence of what you are accusing them of, nor
does their magazine.

I haven't found anyone with the opinion that Hams are "cranky old
geezers who are living in the past and pounding Samuel Morse' old
telegraph key while whining about young whippersnappers who don't respect
their elders" except for certain Hams who have an axe to grind, for
whatever reason. The general public doesn't have much of an idea about us
one way or the other IMO.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 07:49:18 EDT, Klystron wrote:

Long story short: Once upon a time, hams were viewed as 'rocket
scientists' and were a force for progress and innovation. Now, they're
viewed as cranky old geezers who are living in the past and pounding
Samuel Morse' old telegraph key while whining about young
whippersnappers who don't respect their elders. A new organization would
break free of that past and move forward. It goes without saying that
ARRL types will not want this and will try to stop it.

Why, when I read stuff like this, and I reminded of Robert Heinlein's
classic short story "The Roads Must Roll" ? (If you are not familiar
with it, READ IT before your next posting.)

This "cranky old geezer" was licensed with that call sign since 1952
and is on the air daily with HF and VHF digital data and voice while a
WW-II J-38 telegraph key sits next to a modern kit-built HF SSB and
data transmitter with all the bells and whistles. I've mentored more
hams than I can think of and have testified for and represented quite
a number of hams in hearings and court trials over their right to
operate their stations.

None of that would have happened without the ARRL teaching me, helping
me, and backing me. None of it.

"Cranky old geezer" ? Hardly. And there's a lot more folks like me
out there.

If you think that the League is "static" then you aren't looking in
the right places. It's your problem, not the League's.
--
73 de K2ASP -- Phil Kane
k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

ARRL Life Member
ARRL Volunteer Counsel
ARRL Volunteer Consulting Engineer
ARRL Northwest Division Assistant Director
Trustee of several radio club stations

"Klystron" wrote:

The objective would be to provide an organization to those hams who
wish to make ham radio innovative and progressive (again). By
comparison, the ARRL exists to serve those hams who wish to keep ham
radio retrogressive, insular and xenophobic. Certain technologies would
be championed (digital voice, digital data, e.g.) while other
technologies would be abandoned to their fate (Morse).

From my viewpoint of this discussion, what it really seems like you are
championing is an organization consisting of people who hate morse code.

That's ok, I guess, but I think you should simply be upfront and honest
about it, by calling it the "We hate Morse Code Ham Radio Society", rather
than attempting to veil it in bogus atruistic poppycock.



It goes without saying that
ARRL types will not want this and will try to stop it.

I suppose it is easier to blame your own failure on others, rather than
acknowledge the fact that your idea is faulty from the onset.

kh6hz

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 07:49:18 EDT, Klystron wrote:

Long story short: Once upon a time, hams were viewed as 'rocket
scientists' and were a force for progress and innovation. Now, they're
viewed as cranky old geezers who are living in the past and pounding
Samuel Morse' old telegraph key while whining about young
whippersnappers who don't respect their elders. A new organization would
break free of that past and move forward. It goes without saying that
ARRL types will not want this and will try to stop it.


If you think that the League is "static" then you aren't looking in
the right places. It's your problem, not the League's.
--
73 de K2ASP -- Phil Kane
k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

ARRL Life Member
ARRL Volunteer Counsel
ARRL Volunteer Consulting Engineer
ARRL Northwest Division Assistant Director
Trustee of several radio club stations


LEAGUE CITES MEMBERSHIP GROWTH

Thee ARRL Letter says that its membership in the
League is up and the trend is toward continued
growth. Customer Service Manager Amy Hurtado, KB1NXO,
says the League now has close to 152,000 members.

Hurtado credits the rise in membership in part to
the FCC rule changes earlier this year that
eliminated Morse code testing for the General and
Amateur Extra license classes. She says that
since more people are upgrading their licenses as
a result of there being no Morse code
requirement, the League is now successfully able
to show them the benefits of being an ARRL member.
73, Ace - WH2T


..

Hi everyone:
"Klystron" wrote in message
...
"Pat Cook" wrote:

I'd offer it as a point of debate Jim (Curiously of course ). What
*would* your new organization offer that ARRL & the many, many other
worldwide clubs don't already offer, Klystron & Iitoi?


The objective would be to provide an organization to those hams who
wish to make ham radio innovative and progressive (again). By
comparison, the ARRL exists to serve those hams who wish to keep ham
radio retrogressive, insular and xenophobic. Certain technologies would
be championed (digital voice, digital data, e.g.) while other
technologies would be abandoned to their fate (Morse).

Okay, so it's true they were somewhat relunctant to allow digital
communications such as, and perhaps namely, packet to take place on the
bands. But look what's happened in the end. Not only have digital
communications become an acceptable form of communications (Thankfully
spearheaded by the work of TAPR BTW), digital communications have been
EMBRACED as a means of PROMOTING Amateur Radio. When was the last time you
proudly told someone that you can work the International Space Station? My
last time was just this afternoon while on the bus enroute back home from
the "candy store" (Hi...Hi).

True, ARRL does do some valuable things for the Amateur Radio Service and
since I *am* a validly licensed Ham, they *do* represent me in various
political and legal capacities (For which I am eternally grateful BTW), I
still see a reason to join them if they're going to represent me anyway.
They know my position on various issues because much the same sentiment
is
shared by SCORES of Hams like me. And many of those Hams have made their
sentiments public. I don't need to submit what would sound like a broken
record in the eyes of ARRL because they've heard it many times before.


If you look at those organizations that are EFFECTIVE in representing
their members and advancing the members' agenda (NRA, teachers' union,
tobacco lobby, trade associations that represent defense contractors,
etc.), certain patterns emerge, regardless of the nature of the
organization or the type of agenda. Such organizations tend to be
politically astute when dealing with government. They use PAC's, they
organize letter writing campaigns, they advise their members on the
voting records of their elected officials, they can deliver votes in
support of those who help them and in support of the OPPONENTS of those
who oppose them.

That's because ARRL *IS* a PAC (And a SIG). I doubt ARRL denies that.

Well...I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. So I ask
again....What *would* your new organization offer that ARRL & the many,
many
other worldwide clubs don't already offer, Klystron & Iitoi? I'm really
curious.

Long story short: Once upon a time, hams were viewed as 'rocket
scientists' and were a force for progress and innovation. Now, they're
viewed as cranky old geezers who are living in the past and pounding
Samuel Morse' old telegraph key while whining about young
whippersnappers who don't respect their elders. A new organization would
break free of that past and move forward. It goes without saying that
ARRL types will not want this and will try to stop it.

*SOME* ARRL types. Not all.

And despite your efforts to "break free" from ARRL, you will ALWAYS have
members who will gleefully rush out to their mailbox to retrieve that shiny
new edition of QST each month. And there's NO WAY you will EVER be able to
stop that.

Just my honest opinion....

Cheers & 73

Pat Cook, KB0OXD
Denver, Colorado
WEBSITE - http://www.qsl.net/kb0oxd/
**NEW VIDEO SECTION - http://www.qsl.net/kb0oxd/cybershacktv/