Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#11
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Michael Coslo wrote on Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:00:40 EST:
I think it is pretty fair to say that the ARS will never be a mainstream hobby or avocation. I really don't think that that is even a good idea, after some thought. You managed to get that sentence approved by the moderators?!? :-) My path to the fold was in looking at ways to apply amateur radio to my other hobby, Amateur astronomy. Funny though, the Ham radio took over, and is now my main hobby, I never did apply it to astronmomy. Back in the 1960s, my lead man at Electro-Optical Systems was both a technician class licensee and a very hands-on telescope maker. He had ground his own 6" mirror for the telescope he was using and was slowly grinding a 10" for a bigger scope. I came up with a design and breadboarded a crystal-controlled time base for a sideral drive for the ten-incher. Done with now-obsolete RTL from Fairchild, it would be a snap to do it today with a single Microchip IC plus a small stepper-motor or synchronous motor driver circuit. Doug moved to Hawaii to work on the BIG telescopes there so the ten-incher project (and its final drive) were put on hold. BTW, he had been into amateur radio first, then converted to doing amateur astronomy. Folkses mileage differs. :-) What attracted you, and can we get some ideas from that to attract or identify and attract new blood? Do we HAVE to 'attract new blood?' Serious question. I've already told my personal story. It seems to rankle some old-timers because it is non-standard to the 'common' experience of USA radio amateurs...so I won't repeat it. shrug After starting in the electronics industry 54 years back, doing high-power HF communications transmitting, the elimination of the morse code test allowed me to get a license (told that story, too, but it is also non-standard). In talking to the applicants a year ago and several others locally in the past year, their interest in getting a license vary considerably. But, nearly all of them go the Technician class route for local radio contacts, a sort of social order thing possible in a large urban area. It was like the CB radio craze and then the BBSs that preceded the Internet era. Few of those got involved via the supposed paradigm of 30 to 50 years back that lots of old- timers repeat. In this newer world of the Internet and many, many components available for lots of different electronics things, plus ten kinds of consumer electronic products (at relatively low cost) on the marketplace, the old concept of 'having one's own personal radio station' is diminishing rapidly. As I see it, the old reasons-for-being of amateur radio aren't applicable anymore. Technology in electronics has long since leaped ahead of any state-of-the-art advances done by amateurs long ago. What I see are two areas - 1. The just-plain-for-fun boosting, for whatever purpose in communications, whether in a local urban area or a bit farther out...and an emphasis on trying out things on a personal-enjoyment level. We are NOT required to DO certain things in the hobby just because some old-timers say we MUST do those besides the regulations that all must obey. 2. De-emphasizing the 'necessity-to-be-a-part-of-the- community-as-a-service.' Now, I know that amateur radio CAN help in emergencies and all that 'service-to-community' PR can persuade some lawmakers to this 'amateur cause' but it seems to me to have gotten too big a share of the open political statements in periodicals. Those who really care about community service can just as easily go DIRECT to such existing organizations. With a total licensee database showing 720+ thousand licensees today, that should be large enough to show lawmakers that amateur radio has a large following. I'm no expert on PR or marketing, don't have the explicit solution to get more newcomers. As I observe the hobby, it will last at least a couple of decades. That's good enough for me. USA amateur radio stands or falls by what its publicists say and try to convince new members...seldom by what the old-timers claim. Times have changed (many times over in my lifetime) and all must adapt to that, not to hold onto ancient paradigms that no longer apply. 73, Len AF6AY |
#12
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
xpyttl wrote:
"Steve Bonine" wrote in message ... Michael Coslo wrote: some snippage Our Section Manager came up with a great idea. We have a very successful youth group in the far reaches of the state. There are, of course, a number of other amateur radio youth groups around the state, having varying levels of success. In April, we are going to gather kids from all these groups together, ply them with pop and pizza, a have them tell us what it was that attracted them, and what we could do better. What better way to figure out how to attract new hams than by asking the new hams themselves, and especially the young ones who we need, and who are likely to be more open than their older counterparts. Your group has hit on the correct way to attract the young folks - by getting a number of them together. If a young person comes into Ham radio all by themselves, it isn't as interesting for them, and they can't do as many things easily as if they were older. Its been my experience that young people (tweens and early teenagers) can get a little lost at club meetings and activities like Field day. And these days, there should be an approved adult to chaperone them at events who has been cleared by one of the state police background investigations. But if you can get a fair number of young'uns who can relate to each other well, they can become good hams and a future resource. - 73 de Mike N3LI - |
#13
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
AF6AY wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote on Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:00:40 EST: some snippage What attracted you, and can we get some ideas from that to attract or identify and attract new blood? Do we HAVE to 'attract new blood?' Serious question. We do need new people to replace those who leave for one reason or the other. I want someone to talk to on the other end, and don't want the Amateur radio community to become closed and eventually die out. more snippage As I see it, the old reasons-for-being of amateur radio aren't applicable anymore. Technology in electronics has long since leaped ahead of any state-of-the-art advances done by amateurs long ago. What I see are two areas - 1. The just-plain-for-fun boosting, for whatever purpose in communications, whether in a local urban area or a bit farther out...and an emphasis on trying out things on a personal-enjoyment level. We are NOT required to DO certain things in the hobby just because some old-timers say we MUST do those besides the regulations that all must obey. I'm fortunate that I never had that experience. Of course, if someone ever did tell me how I was supposed to use my time in the hobby, I think I would politely decline, and go do what I wanted to do. 8^) 2. De-emphasizing the 'necessity-to-be-a-part-of-the- community-as-a-service.' Now, I know that amateur radio CAN help in emergencies and all that 'service-to-community' PR can persuade some lawmakers to this 'amateur cause' but it seems to me to have gotten too big a share of the open political statements in periodicals. Here we agree. While I am impressed with what Amateurs have done in emergencies, the way that the public service genre of the hobby has morphed is a little troublesome to me. I don't know if you were watching the group a few weeks ago, but I related a story about an emergency comm person speaking at a club meeting. When a member noted that the ARS frequencies were there for use after the normal comms weren't working, he replied " Every thing we do is a matter of life and death, so we can use your frequencies any way we wish". That was not only wrong, but scary that people that think in that manner are coming into the hobby with such an attitude. He (and some like him) come in to talk to the people who will be building and maintaining repeaters and infrastructure, and lay one like that on them? - 73 de Mike N3LI - |
#14
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Michael Coslo wrote:
Your group has hit on the correct way to attract the young folks - by getting a number of them together. I agree, but I haven't found the secret for getting them together. How does one publicize this first gathering? I have not found the term "ham radio" to be effective in attracting young folks. How about some more detail from the original poster of this scheme in terms of how they got it off the ground, and how they manage to keep it going? Thanks and 73, Steve KB9X |
#15
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() "Steve Bonine" wrote in message ... How about some more detail from the original poster of this scheme in terms of how they got it off the ground, and how they manage to keep it going? Well, I wasn't the guy who got the original group going. However, my (vague) understanding is that the DAR Girls and Boys Club (I hadn't even known there was such a thing) was the original resource. Whether the DAR approached someone looking for an activity for these kids, or whether some interested ham was already a member, I don't know. Somehow they hit upon the idea of HF Contesting, and formed the "Young Amateurs Contest Ham Team" (YACHT). This, for whatever reason, took off. Apparently these kids enjoy contesting. As far as I know, the amateurs involved weren't big contesters, so this must have been the kids' idea. On reflection, contesting seems a pretty good idea. Kids are often reluctant to have conversations with older hams on the air. A contest is an easy way to get a lot of contacts without the risk of being asked hard questions. Locally we did have the 4H approach us looking for something of interest to the boys in 4H, since most of the activities seemed more oriented towards girls. As it turned out, we didn't attract many boys; a few girls but a bunch of parents! So that didn't work out for us. We still put together a little booth at the 4H annual pancake supper, but that really hasn't been terribly productive. One local activity that does seem to be working out is a school club. A couple of amateurs go to one of the middle schools once a week for a meeting of their radio club. This has gotten us a handful of new hams. Not huge numbers compared to the population, but every little bit helps. Someone mentioned having mentors for the kids background cheked, and in this day and age, there is something to be said for this. Most RACES organizations now require background checks, so your RACES organization might be a source for mentors for these kids that have already been vetted. ... |
#16
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
xpyttl wrote:
Someone mentioned having mentors for the kids background cheked, and in this day and age, there is something to be said for this. Most RACES organizations now require background checks, so your RACES organization might be a source for mentors for these kids that have already been vetted. Keep in mind that the background checks for working with children are looking for different issues. When I was prez of an association and coaching youth Ice Hockey, I often had to explain that we weren't looking for violations of basic law, that no one was going to be rejected because they had an underage drinking offense or the like. No one is perfect. The only thing that would trigger the thing was violations involving children. The RACES checks might be a bit different, but I'm not sure. I'm almost certain the Red Cross' ones are. - 73 de Mike N3LI |
#17
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() "Michael Coslo" wrote in message ... Keep in mind that the background checks for working with children are looking for different issues. When I was prez of an association and coaching youth Ice Hockey, I often had to explain that we weren't looking for violations of basic law, that no one was going to be rejected because they had an underage drinking offense or the like. No one is perfect. The only thing that would trigger the thing was violations involving children. The RACES checks might be a bit different, but I'm not sure. I'm almost certain the Red Cross' ones are. RACES background checks are, of course, dependent on your local emergency manager. Most, however, a looking for pretty much the same things. In the event of an emergency you might be deployed at a shelter or other location where there might be vulnerable individuals. That is the same sort of thing I would suspect one would want to know if someone were to be around children. But it is a good caution. Different jurisdictions can be amazingly uneven. I know of one jurisdiction where a deputy interviews the candidate's spouse. The concern is that the volunteer work might interfere with the home life. So clearly, YMMV. ... |
#18
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Michael Coslo wrote on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:36:39 EST:
AF6AY wrote: Michael Coslo wrote on Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:00:40 EST: Do we HAVE to 'attract new blood?' Serious question. We do need new people to replace those who leave for one reason or the other. I want someone to talk to on the other end, and don't want the Amateur radio community to become closed and eventually die out. That seems a tad premature to me. At present there are 722K TOTAL licensees and the expiration rate is roughly 27K/year. If that keeps up without any newcomers, it would be 26.7 years before all were gone. [of course there will be newcomers...but how many depends on the attitude of the old-timers they come in contact with] ... We are NOT required to DO certain things in the hobby just because some old-timers say we MUST do those besides the regulations that all must obey. I'm fortunate that I never had that experience. Of course, if someone ever did tell me how I was supposed to use my time in the hobby, I think I would politely decline, and go do what I wanted to do. 8^) Well, from my experience (at work or at play) I've had some who INSISTED on telling me what I 'should' be doing. Some of those got rather antagonistic about it. "We don't DO that kind of thing in fill-in-the-blank" kind of comment. It was so prevalent among amateur radio licensees that I encountered that it turned me off of bothering to get a license for a long time. That's been my experience over the last half century and I spent that time working IN the electronics industry. I'll have to say that the above attitude was reflected in the older amateur-radio-interest newsgroups and was partly due to the creation of rec.radio.amateur.moderated. ... I don't know if you were watching the group a few weeks ago, but I related a story about an emergency comm person speaking at a club meeting. I was 'reading the mail' but didn't bother with it much. :-) When a member noted that the ARS frequencies were there for use after the normal comms weren't working, he replied " Every thing we do is a matter of life and death, so we can use your frequencies any way we wish". That was not only wrong, but scary that people that think in that manner are coming into the hobby with such an attitude. That person was more right than wrong. If one bothers to look, the small-number Parts of Title 47 C.F.R. state clearly that ANYONE can use ANY radio frequency to call for assistance if a situation is really life or death...licensed or not. True. Phil Kane could probably quote the Part and wording off the top of his head but, not being an attorney, I would have to search the Parts (all freely accessible). Besides, someone in here would want to start a whole steamy argument thread on that, arguing minutiae on the whichness of the what...:-) Memory says it is the Part on commercial radio licenses but undoubtedly someone in here will say 'I am wrong.' [sigh] Radio amateur licensees are not bound JUST to what Part 97 says. The whole of Title 47 applies, even if 99+% has nothing directly to do with the amateur radio service. But, with REAL life-and-death situations, anyone can use any frequency at any time with or without any license. He (and some like him) come in to talk to the people who will be building and maintaining repeaters and infrastructure, and lay one like that on them? Let's take that IN context. Consider that the attending radio amateurs might ALSO have an 'attitude' going. Consider that lots of government infrastructure radio facilities are kept going 24/7 expressly FOR the purpose of life-and-death comms needs. Amateur radio repeaters aren't. Amateur repeaters are there primarily for the benefit of other amateurs. I don't know about your local group, but I've seen (in real life as well as in print) some groups that are simply too full of themselves with self-righteousness. Such folks have a terrible attitude and couldn't negotiate anything unless it was in their favor. Anyone coming in contact with them would tend to reply in-kind. Now, in my area, I'm GLAD that the commercial, professional radio services ARE there for anyone's benefit 24/7. LAPD and LAFD are up and running as are the neighboring incorporated cities of Burbank and Glendale (with nice cooperative ties between all the government facilities). The Greater Los Angeles Emergency Communications Center is staffed and ready to go into action any time there is a REAL emergency and they can tie into dozens of utility companies and other firms for unusual emergency situations. It was put to the test on 17 Jan 94 with the Northridge earthquake and passed. Since then it was improved via the LAFD Emergency Communications Service which donated old, unused buildings and bought or converted busses and radio equipment. I took my amateur tests at an 'Old Firehouse' that is now part of that LAFD sub-organization. Nice civic cooperation by the LAFD. I experienced that Northridge earthquake first-hand and helped a utility company restore services. All the electric power of an area populated by 10 million or so were WITHOUT electric power for half a day. Didn't see ANY sign of 'amateur radio emergency' groups until two days AFTER the 17th. FEMA flew in RF-plus-video terminals and put them in service the day after. I'd like to say something positive about amateur radio since I am a licensee in the radio service, but there wasn't much evidence of it. I've been a commercial radio licensee for 52 years and can't forget that...I have to give credit where it is due from REAL experiences, not some nebulous 'future plans' or PR write-ups that appear only within amateur radio interest groups. 73, Len AF6AY |
#19
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Kudos to those working to bring new folks, young and old, to ham
radio. Some observations from a ham who started out in ham radio at the age of 13 (in no particular order): 1) Don't just go for high schoolers. Middle-school and even elementary schoolers can be hams if they're interested enough. 3) Don't try to sell amateur radio as a substitute for cell phones, the internet, or other communications methods. Sell it as a unique activity with its own unique attractions and rewards. 4) Scouting has a long history of connection to amateur radio. Some councils have pretty serious amateur radio programs, and always need more help. 5) Don't assume what parts of amateur radio young people will or won't be interested in. Emphasize the wide variety of activities hams do, and how much choice there is. 6) Don't assume that younger hams only want to associate with other younger hams. For me, part of the attraction to amateur radio was the opportunity to be part of a community where one's age, gender, income, etc. are not a factor. Morse Code operation made this possible - on the air with that mode, nobody knows how old you are. You can interact with other hams of all ages. You're judged by your skills and signal quality, not how much you spent on your rig, etc. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
#20
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
AF6AY wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:36:39 EST: When a member noted that the ARS frequencies were there for use after the normal comms weren't working, he replied " Every thing we do is a matter of life and death, so we can use your frequencies any way we wish". That was not only wrong, but scary that people that think in that manner are coming into the hobby with such an attitude. That person was more right than wrong. If one bothers to look, the small-number Parts of Title 47 C.F.R. state clearly that ANYONE can use ANY radio frequency to call for assistance if a situation is really life or death...licensed or not. True. Phil Kane could probably quote the Part and wording off the top of his head but, not being an attorney, I would have to search the Parts (all freely accessible). Besides, someone in here would want to start a whole steamy argument thread on that, arguing minutiae on the whichness of the what...:-) Memory says it is the Part on commercial radio licenses but undoubtedly someone in here will say 'I am wrong.' [sigh] It is not as simple as that. What constitutes an emergency? If an ambulance crew is transporting a 90 year old heart attack victim, it is certainly a matter of life or death for that one patient. However, if the ambulance breaks down, they can't commandeer your car. For a government agency to seize private property (a category that includes repeaters, transceivers, etc.) for their own use, they must have a declaration of emergency, declaration of martial law, or, in individual cases, a court order. The fire department employee who claimed that the FD could take over an amateur radio club's repeaters anytime that they wanted to do so was dead wrong. -- Klystron |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Forum | |||
What makes the toad a better person? | Policy | |||
For the person that asked.... | CB | |||
PeePeeHolic: How Can Any Person Be SO Gay | CB | |||
Will the person who I got the ham equipment from please contact me? | Swap |