"Dick Carroll" wrote in message
...


"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...
"Arnie Macy" wrote in message
...
"Kim W5TIT" wrote ...

No doubt what started ham radio was an experiment using the best of
what
was around then. Perhaps you'd like to move into the most recent
century,
Dick. If ham radio were "invented" today, it would never even get
near
CW.


__________________________________________________ _______________________

Or SSB, Kim.

Arnie -
KT4ST

"What Hath God Wrought?"



Well, yeah. But my comments were specifically to Dick and were angled
at
his argument for CW. Heck, yeah. I think if ham radio were
"invented"
today, we'd pretty much need to be computer experts...

Kim W5TIT

If radio were invented today, no amateur radio service would even be
allowed
to exist. The governments would hog it all. They've already tried to
take
it away more than once.

Naw, the politically connected money would soon own the whole show.


Dick, the huge chip on shoulder is filled with gangue green.

Kim W5TIT


---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to

JJ wrote:

Kim W5TIT wrote:


I think some PCTAs are darned great people and I have no problem associating
with them. I think some NCTAs are darned great people and I have no problem
associating with them. Now, you Dick, as a PCTA? Well, Carl's expression
above says it all.

Kim W5TIT

Larry and Dick are perfect examples of the elitist types of hams
to whom a new or prospective ham attends a ham club meeting sees
as an example of ham radio, and decides they don't want to have
anything to do with ham radio.

JJ you're about as dippy as they're made these days. One of us says he beleives
that it's important for hams to learn to do morse code because it's a good, really
simple and viable communications mode for hams, and suddenly you've got us all
packaged up as ogres. You haven't a single clue, and you'r so far off that
you have no clue that you have no clue. Probably a good thing, dipschitz like you,
if intelligent, might be something of an annoyance. As it is you come in somewhere
below a gnat.

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in part ...

Simply stating the facts as perceived in terms of the membership's views.
This is NOT NCI's issue though ... though, as I have said over and over, I
*personally* would hate to see the digital/CW sub-bands overrun by SSB.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Your position as to Digital/CW subands is well documented, Carl. I was
simply quoting the "official" reply comments of NCI to the NPRM. It seems
pretty clear that, in general, they will be very soft on this issue. Maybe,
with your influence, you could convince them otherwise.

Arnie -
KT4ST

Dee D. Flint wrote:
"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
...

"Guessing" wrote in message
news:kTWPa.1427$Bd5.928@fed1read01...

"Alun Palmer" wrote in message
...

"Guessing" wrote in
news:bXVPa.1425$Bd5.445@fed1read01:

Ask a lawyer about that one. Hey I
want to be a BSEE, why do I have to take History classes ????

You don't have to take history classes in some schools
to get a BSEE.



Broaden the category to Socio-Humanistic electives or whatever equivalent
term that your college uses and you will find that you do have to take a
certain amount of them. And everyone regardless of major has to take
English even though they should already be proficient at that before they
get there. You have to take quite a few "unnecessary" courses in college to
get a degree in any field.

Unless you are a "non-traditional student" at old PSU, you have to take
Physical Education classes. My son is taking Karate this semester, as a
required course.

It has no bearing on his eventual carreer, yet he may elect to not take
it, and not graduate. He has to take some history, to and there are
plenty of other classes that have a questionable relevence to his
eventual carreer.

Even the Electrical engineers have to take these classes.

The idea is actually sound, as it helps produce a more well rounded
individual. It also takes into account that a person may not have the
same "core competencies" their entire career. A narrowly focused
education may prepare a person for a carreer that eventually dissapears.

- Mike KB3EIA -

JJ wrote:


Kim W5TIT wrote:


I think some PCTAs are darned great people and I have no problem
associating
with them. I think some NCTAs are darned great people and I have no
problem
associating with them. Now, you Dick, as a PCTA? Well, Carl's
expression
above says it all.

Kim W5TIT


Larry and Dick are perfect examples of the elitist types of hams to whom
a new or prospective ham attends a ham club meeting sees as an example
of ham radio, and decides they don't want to have anything to do with
ham radio.

Gee, you guys are sensitive! Both Larry and Dick are very outspoken,
and I have disagreed with both of them at times. So What??? I like them
both.

Who the heck say everyone has to agree with everyone else?

- Mike KB3EIA -

JJ wrote:


Kim W5TIT wrote:


I think some PCTAs are darned great people and I have no problem
associating
with them. I think some NCTAs are darned great people and I have no
problem
associating with them. Now, you Dick, as a PCTA? Well, Carl's
expression
above says it all.

Kim W5TIT


Larry and Dick are perfect examples of the elitist types of hams to whom
a new or prospective ham attends a ham club meeting sees as an example
of ham radio, and decides they don't want to have anything to do with
ham radio.

Hey JJ, you have a real name and maybe a callsign? Or are you just here
from the cb group doing a little trolling?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Dick Carroll wrote:



JJ it's just another minor rrap irritant that you're another dip**** who spouts off
without
having a hint of a clue. No problem,we've had plenty of them here on rrap to date.
You and Kim fit really well together.

Now I know I am getting under your skin when you resort to the
childish vulgar name calling. Good!


Oh, don't think just because you try to be anonymous that no one can find out who
you are. That's been tried here before. If I was interested at all I'd already know.
I'm not, but some others will probably be.

So who am I?

Kim W5TIT wrote:


And, so once you "find out" who JJ is, Dick, what would you be doing with
that? You're making veiled threats now, are you?

Kim W5TIT

He's gonna come punch me in the nose with his CW key.

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

Alun Palmer wrote:
"Guessing" wrote in
news:bXVPa.1425$Bd5.445@fed1read01:


I still maintain it is all a matter of achieve or cop out. Make
excuses or meet a challenge.
And you are correct "Code aptitude and IQ are completely unrelated" So
much for the "Engineer copout"

It has nothing to do whether you or I like or dislike the code.


I disagree. If someone doesn't like CW, why on earth should they be
forced to train as a CW operator to get accesss to phone frequencies?
This is a hobby.


It has nothing to do with "Antiquated technology"


I don't think CW can match PSK or TOR, so it is somewhat antiquated,
IMHO

Well, Alun, what say we just get rid of all the "antiquated"
technologies? Our anonymous friend is right.


No. although I'm glad spark isn't allowed!



It has nothing to do with "I'll never use code"


On the contrary. I don't use code, so why did I have to learn to use
it?

You don't have to learn anything you don't want to learn.


On the contrary, I had to learn code to get HF phone. It certainly wasn't
done willingly

It has everything to do with "Want HF Ham Ticket -- Pass the Test "(at
the moment) If dropped is all OK with me. Times and requirements
change as they should.


So you have no trouble with the oncoming changes, then?

I do. A Celebration of Entropy


All systems tend to maximise entropy. You must know that.


Black and white -- yep sure is -- society, government, et al make it
that way. Don't Drink and Drive, 3 strikes you are outta here -- Pass
the Test -- pretty black and white to me.



So you don't beleive anyone should try to change any of the rules?


As for Anyone who used the code as an excuse for not becoming a
ham, just

wasn't serious about it.

An unsupported assertion, and untrue

I have talked with hundreds and I mean hundreds of folks and VE's over
the years and here are the copouts.

I don't have time. The most common one. VE's here have found that 15
min a day EVERY day practice and in a month --90%+ pass the code test
BUT the other 10% spend all night on the boob tube.



Usually that is just an excuse, I agree. My XYL uses it all the time!


I'll never use code. (You may never have to parallel park either) (if
they still require that)



No, that one is valid.


I can't take tests (Has Drivers License and a BSEE)

Its a lot easier to get on CB

Its too expensive (has $1000 computer, can't afford a Swan 350 at
$250)



That one makes me smile too

That Swan should be outa the picture. It's antiquated technology.


It has it's place, if it is available for a low enough price


Its so illogical (so is a job interview at times)

Notice I didn't even mention whether I am a Ham or not -- Tech
no-code or Extra ---pro or anti-code -- cause that ain't got nothing
to do with -- PASS THE TEST


"Alun Palmer" wrote in message
...

"Guessing" wrote in
news:QWCPa.913$Bd5.644@fed1read01:


Someone squawked
As an engineer myself, I can verfiy that lots of engineers have
told me exactly that. Whether they would get a licence once code
testing is abolished might be another matter.

Nonsense and a big copout

It happens to be the truth, whether you like it or not


If you want a BS/MS/PHD Degree -- pass the tests
Want a driver license -- take a test
Want a job - take a drug test and physical exam and perhaps a
professional test
Want insurance -- take a physical exam
Want to be an apprentice (JourneyPerson) -- take the test
Want to advance in the Military -- take the test
Pass the Bar (Legal that is) Pass Da Test
Nurses CPR for sure and maybe ACLS Tests
Sobriety Test -- Try to dodge this one
et al tests
Want an HF Ham license -- take the code and Technical/Rules et al
test

Code won't be included in that for much longer. I assume that since
you just say 'take the test' about everything, that you must have no
problem with that. I certainly don't!


Otherwise we have CB and FRS. And one who listens on these bands
ought to be totally inspired to get a Ham Ticket !!!

Simple as that.


You live in a 'black and white' world, don't you?


Anyone who used the code as an excuse for not becoming a ham, just
wasn't serious about it.


An unsupported assertion, and untrue


If 10 to 17 year olds can do it, why can't an engineer or any other
college grad ???


Code aptitude and IQ are completely unrelated


Did any of those "Engineers" get a No-Code Tech license ??

Yes, I did (although I did code eventually)


Didn't think so !!

"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:19:01 -0400, "Bill Sohl"
wrote:

Ask a lawyer about that one. Hey I
want to be a BSEE, why do I have to take History classes ????

You don't have to take history classes in some schools
to get a BSEE.

Correct...but, in my opinion, still misses one major point, namely
that an amateur radio license and a BSEE are entirely different.

Agree.

A BSEE is a degree awarded at the *end* of an academic pursuit for the
purpose of recognizing successful completion thereof and to certify
that the recipient has acquired significant knowledge in the field. By
the time you get a BSEE, you're supposed to have forgotten more about
electrical engineering than most people have ever learned. It'll get
you a decent job even if you bluffed your way through and really don't
know shinola. It's supposedly proof of an accomplishment, that being a
well-rounded education, with particular emphasis in a specialized
field. That's why most (not all) institutes of higher learning require
classes in things like history, literature, and other stuff that would
seem unrelated.

Well said...Agree 100%

If I were Larry Roll, I'd lament that I've seen so many people with
college degrees that still couldn't fill out a job application
properly, that the requirements for a college degree must have been
seriously dumbed down over the past thirty years, but I'm not, so I
won't. Nevertheless, I have worked with people who held engineering
degrees yet could not compose a coherent memo for circulation in their
own department.

Sad but true. I have encountered the same thing with folks
that hold PHD's too... academically brilliant in their own
environment but don't let them near a customer.

An amateur radio license is a document awarded at the *beginning* of
one's participation in the hobby for the purpose of granting operating
privileges and to certify that the recipient has demonstrated entry
level knowledge at the class of license thus received. It won't get
you a job bagging groceries. As for the accomplishments, those come
afterward when you actually start to make use of the privileges the
license conveys by putting Qs in your logbook. It is not, and is not
intended to be, comparable to a college degree...no matter how much
some people would like it to be so.

Agree again.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK