Larry,

If you like, I might be able to sell you some nice ocean-front property in
North Dakota :))

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA
BTW, you'd be surprised how many young folks I've helped at work with
computer problems (and I'm *not* an expert); also, learning Morse (and
Baudot in the Navy - yes, we had to memorize the RTTY code!) makes it very
easy to understand ASCII and other modes. You get used to the fact that
mark and spaces can transfer information. Like languages, the first foreign
language is the most difficult.


"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
Jim:

How politically-incorrect of you to point this out! However, the NCTA's
have, for years, made the claim that code testing was leading the ARS
down the path of technical ignorance. Now that all that is going to go
away soon, it will be very interesting, indeed, to learn of all the
wonderful
new technical advances that will be wrought by the influx of computer-
literate, technically-competent young people eager to join our ranks!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to call a realtor and buy a nice piece
of real estate in the Florida Everglades to build my retirement home.

73 de Larry, K3LT



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"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote in message
...
On 13 Jul 2003 05:53:13 GMT, ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)
wrote:

Moral of the story: as is the case with fishing, your success rate is
largely determined by what you use for bait. We're using the wrong
bait. Our success rate at attracting new hams is the documentary
evidence, and we've ignored it long enough.



Since the number of hams is growing FASTER than the general population, our
current system IS working and we are using the right "bait." All you have
to do is check the statistics that have been published several times on this
newsgroup. So the documentary evidence supports the conclusion that we are
already doing the right things.


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

From: ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

However, the NCTA's
have, for years, made the claim that code testing was leading the ARS
down the path of technical ignorance.

The Technician class license does not require passing a code test. Removing the
code test entirely, therefore, should have no effect on technical skills.

"Vshah101" wrote in message
...
From: ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

I would be willing to improve my skills in homebrewing, troubleshooting,
APRS,
VHF, direction finding, and other technical areas. However, the Hams in
every
club, of the several I've been to, are not interested in those areas.

Its not a lack of resources. Its that Hams don't want to. My local club
even
has a Network Analyzer and a dedicated shack with radio setps, parts,
cables,
soldering iron, etc. They have the resources to do the technical
activities.
They just chose not to do that and to do contesting, antenna setups, and
CW.

And its not that I can't be bothered. I would actively contribute in those
areas, if other Hams joined me.

What's stopping you from doing it on your own with the club resources?
That's why the material is there and books are available. If people saw you
working on it, some would join you. Remember the earliest hams HAD to work
it out on their own.

Our club members have a variety of interests. However we may have only one
or two individuals interested in a particular area. Out of a membership of
150 or so we only have about 5 contesters if you include the casual
participants. We only have two people interested in satellites. We have
about a dozen or so who regularly participate in community service
functions. And so on. No one faults another member if he/she doesn't share
an interest in the same aspects of radio.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

From: ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

Well some coders refuse to learn the technical material.

Vipul:

If that is so, then they can't be hams, because they never would have
passed the theory part of the written tests, would they?

With the current written test, they would not have to actually learn the
material to pass the written test.

Naturally, this overlooks the fact that virtually every technical advance
created within the ARS has traditionally been achieved by hams who
also met the existing licensing requirements

Thats probably not true today. I see the exact opposite in the clubs I've been
to. The Hams that focus on contesting and CW are the ones that dislike the
technical topics. Ask them about contesting, and they will show interest. Then
tell them about a Homebrew project, APRS, direction finding, or other technical
area and they are not interested in that.

Unfortunately for you, your circumscription of Morse code proficiency as a
"worthless pursuit" is no more than a highly subjective and flagrantly
self-serving evaluation made by a person with no qualification to render
such a judgment.

I know a Communications Theory Proffessor that worked in the Comm theory field
for many years, and has an Amateur Radio license. No mention of Morse code as a
useful Communications mode in the class.

I challenge you to provide some documentary evidence
that knowledge of the Morse code is somehow detrimental to the "image"
of amateur radio operators.

Here is one example where its bad for image of the individual Amateur Radio
operator. Mention to spouse, relatives, or friends that you got an upgrade to
your license class from passing a Morse code test and its likely that they
would say something about you spending too much time in a worthless pursuit.

Here is one example where its bad for image of the ARS. I mentioned that I had
a Ham radio license to someone. He asked me if they still used Morse code. He
also said its obsolete and even the military does not use it.

The proof
is your own admission that you cannot use the Morse code. If you could,
you may have an entirely different perspective.

Once you learn Morse code above a certain speed, you cannot forget it. I don't
want to permanantly remember code. Then even if I don't like it, I'm stuck with
it.

actual experience has shown that new hams who come
into the ARS under relaxed licensing standards tend to be less technically
involved than ever

I am very willing to do my part on technical projects. I even put an ad for it.
I got only two responses. After a lack of resources, I couldn't continue it. If
more people were interested, then I would be willing to put in the time and
effort to get some of these projects going.

The concept of "Elmering" has transmuted from
....snipped middle of this sentence...
to simply showing the New Age No-Code Tech which button
to push to make his HT work.

My local club got some additional funds. They used it to get an HF radio to get
more people operating with CW. They said this was part of them "advancing the
radio art". The same club members posed for a Homebrewing photo, which they
advertise as current. I asked many of the people in the photo if they liked
homebrewing. None of them did. Seems like the photo is a little dis-honest.

Vshah101 wrote:
From: Mike Coslo


Those are some of the reasons I advocate a return to the waiting period
before advanced ticket upgrades.


I disagree. A waiting period would be unfair. If the person has prepared
themseleves well, they may well have the ability for the upgrade. Why slow down
someone that has the ability for the upgrade?

Perhaps you are not aware of it, but there is a LOT more to the ARS
than just the test for each level. When I was unlicensed, I could have
studied for and passed the Extra exam. But I wouldn't have been much of
an extra.

It is simlar in some ways to driving a car You could read a lot of
information about driving a car, but nothing makes you a good driver
like experience behind the wheel.


And I say that from personal experience. An Extra *should* be
essentially an expert in the ARS.

Sure. Assuming that the prospective amateur gets some more experience.

Thats what the license should imply. Each licence upgrade should have higher
skill than the previous license

Most of the clubs don't want to focus on technical skills. Most clubs focus on
contesting, antennas, and CW. Clubs could do homebrewing, tuning, radio
direction finding, or other technical areas.

You do have a one track mind, eh? We've been through that one enough.


Oops, is that a "filter" or "hazing" like Morse code is?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Morse code is a bullying tactic to force this skill at the expense of other
skills. Morse code is not a "filter". It blocks entry to the General class
license. It is an irrelevant skill, used as an obstacle.

My sympathy.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Vshah101" wrote in message
...
From: ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

Here is one example where its bad for image of the ARS. I mentioned that I
had
a Ham radio license to someone. He asked me if they still used Morse code.
He
also said its obsolete and even the military does not use it.

Just shows how ignorant he is. Special Forces still learn it and use it as
they may need to operate low power and be stealthy.

Once you learn Morse code above a certain speed, you cannot forget it. I
don't
want to permanantly remember code. Then even if I don't like it, I'm stuck
with
it.


Specious argument. At 5wpm, it's easy to forget after the test. Even
though higher speeds do lead to permanently remembering it, it's hardly in
the forefront of the brain. It recedes to the background to lie dormant
until wanted or needed. The effect is nearly the same as forgetting since
it will not resurface until triggered by use.

I am very willing to do my part on technical projects. I even put an ad
for it.
I got only two responses. After a lack of resources, I couldn't continue
it. If
more people were interested, then I would be willing to put in the time
and
effort to get some of these projects going.

Two is plenty for a first effort. You should have continued. Every journey
begins with the first step. In my areas of interest, I will work with
whoever is interested even if it is only one person.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dick Carroll wrote:

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:


"William H. O'Hara, III" wrote in message
. 3.61...


I had thought pilots DID. Does Anyone know?

The Morse IDs on radionav beacons send so slow
that it's easy to write down "dots" and "dashes" and
use a laminated "cheat sheet" to decode the ID and
make sure it's the beacon you want.


..while you fly the plane into a mountain

Come to reality Dickie, most pilots cannot copy code except to
look at the dots and dashes on the sectional chart.

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message



That seems to be urban myth ... my youngest son is a Radioman in Navy
EOD ... a special unit that's one notch below the SEALs ... NO Morse
training.

If they USE Morse at all, it would likely be sent and received by machine
as very high-speed bursts to send relatively short messages that would
be "low probability of detection" and very difficult to DF because the
bursts would be so short. (I don't know that they use this any more ...
it was available, but uncommon, back in 1990 when I left Rockwell-Collins
Defense Communications for the commercial sector. It's probably been
supplanted by FSK, since at equal symbol rates that has about a 9 dB
weak signal advantage over OOK Morse and it's actually simpler to
encode and decode in hardware/software.

I doubt that any of the radio comms the special forces use are
capable of Morse code.

"William H. O'Hara, III" wrote in message
. 61...


I had thought pilots DID. Does Anyone know?

The Morse IDs on radionav beacons send so slow
that it's easy to write down "dots" and "dashes" and
use a laminated "cheat sheet" to decode the ID and
make sure it's the beacon you want.

Carl - wk3c