In article , Scott Unit 69
writes:

My own participation in the "online" code test debate dates back to
1991 when I returned from the UK and purchased my first US modem.
I had limited participation in Fidonet from the UK from late '89 to '91,
but at the time, the Ham Radio forum was tightly moderated, and anyone
with a pro-code stance was persona non-grata.


And the rest of the world would appreciate if you'd stop
taking it out on us. It's not my fault. I don't care.

Then don't read this newsgroup. I'm not going away.

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Let me know when you're ready, Mike! I've still got to get my station put
back together in the wake of Field Day.

Field day is definitely rough on the equipment. Must be that sleep
deprived carelessness of the tear-down afterward!

Mike:

Oh, you mean like "disconnecting" antenna rotor control boxes with a
pair of dikes? Yes, indeed. 12 hours to set up, 2 to tear down!
Fortunately, I'm not that hard on my own equipment, just a bit
unmotivated to get the station set back up for at least a month after
Field Day. Since I run the digital mode station for my club, I have
to take not only my radios, but my whole bloody computer system
as well. Fortunately, that's the easiest thing to return to functional
normalcy at the home QTH. Can't be missing out on rrap now, can I?

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX"
writes:

I suppose Larry will never consider me a fully-fledged ham, even with 20
wpm, 'cause I operate 100% phone, LOL.

Alun, my opinion of you as a ham is not dependant on your usage of CW.
All I ask is that you don't whine about it, and that as a ham, you make an
effort to do something more challenging than just yakking into a
microphone. That would imply the use of at least one digital mode. CW
operation would be the icing on the cake, and go a long way to impress
me.

(seriously asking this question)
So if a person is getting into technical research, project building of any
kind (generically speaking), or any other strong contribution to amateur
radio, but DOES like to "yakking into a microphone" whilst on the air is a
bad thing?

Just curious,

Ryan:

That would depend on whether or not he/she was whining about the
code test requirements, or gloating over the fact that they had been
dropped. If he/she were, in actual fact, doing the technical R&D you're
talking about, then I would have a very high opinion of their contribution
to amateur radio -- notwithstanding the yakking.

73 de Larry, K3LT

Larry Roll K3LT wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Let me know when you're ready, Mike! I've still got to get my station put
back together in the wake of Field Day.

Field day is definitely rough on the equipment. Must be that sleep
deprived carelessness of the tear-down afterward!


Mike:

Oh, you mean like "disconnecting" antenna rotor control boxes with a
pair of dikes? Yes, indeed. 12 hours to set up, 2 to tear down!

Darn near! No one is trying to abuse the equipment, but after a weekend
of hard labor setting the stations up and no sleep we can get goofy and
mess a few things up.

Wouldn't trade it for anything tho'. Work hard, play hard.

Fortunately, I'm not that hard on my own equipment, just a bit
unmotivated to get the station set back up for at least a month after
Field Day. Since I run the digital mode station for my club, I have
to take not only my radios, but my whole bloody computer system
as well. Fortunately, that's the easiest thing to return to functional
normalcy at the home QTH. Can't be missing out on rrap now, can I?

Yup, me too. Interesting thing with the digital modes besides CW. I
"snuck" in my interface over the objections of some members. The new
people loved it! Kids, who are used to chat rooms, picked up on that
quickly, and the GOTA station will have PSK31 available from now on.

I think things like that only help the case for CW. The newbies were
looking at that paddle on the bench, and you could see the gears turning....

- Mike KB3EIA -

I'll just put you in the bozo bin...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Larry Roll K3LT wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo

writes:


Let me know when you're ready, Mike! I've still got to get my station
put
back together in the wake of Field Day.

Field day is definitely rough on the equipment. Must be that sleep
deprived carelessness of the tear-down afterward!


Mike:

Oh, you mean like "disconnecting" antenna rotor control boxes with a
pair of dikes? Yes, indeed. 12 hours to set up, 2 to tear down!

Darn near! No one is trying to abuse the equipment, but after a weekend
of hard labor setting the stations up and no sleep we can get goofy and
mess a few things up.

Wouldn't trade it for anything tho'. Work hard, play hard.

Fortunately, I'm not that hard on my own equipment, just a bit
unmotivated to get the station set back up for at least a month after
Field Day. Since I run the digital mode station for my club, I have
to take not only my radios, but my whole bloody computer system
as well. Fortunately, that's the easiest thing to return to functional
normalcy at the home QTH. Can't be missing out on rrap now, can I?

Yup, me too. Interesting thing with the digital modes besides CW. I
"snuck" in my interface over the objections of some members. The new
people loved it! Kids, who are used to chat rooms, picked up on that
quickly, and the GOTA station will have PSK31 available from now on.

I think things like that only help the case for CW. The newbies were
looking at that paddle on the bench, and you could see the gears
turning....

- Mike KB3EIA -


I did a field day like that some years ago. And your right I was the center
of attention. Maybe that is what these 'no codeers' need to do. See CW in
action.

Dan/W4NTI

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

I think things like that only help the case for CW. The newbies were
looking at that paddle on the bench, and you could see the gears turning....

I've seen that happen time and again. The CW setups at Field Day get the most
attention from nonhams, for some reason.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo

writes:

I think things like that only help the case for CW. The newbies were
looking at that paddle on the bench, and you could see the gears
turning....

I've seen that happen time and again. The CW setups at Field Day get the
most
attention from nonhams, for some reason.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Simple, it's more "exotic" than voice or keyboard.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:09:03 -0500, "Kim W5TIT"
wrote:

Watch this, John:


John, you said:

2. Any *prospective* US ham who learns the code and gets their Extra
(as opposed to getting their General) will be villified and condemned
by you, as well as others in this NG, as a product of the (supposedly)
dumbed down written exams, even if they operate CW 100% of their total
operating time, and


Then, Larry said:


Not by me, they won't! Please don't go Kim on me, John!

Then you made a couple of points and Larry said:

. . .In any
event, I don't think that passing ANY current amateur radio test element
is a particularly challenging endeavor these days. With open question
pools, VE testing that allows taking the test multiple times per session,
and a 70% passing score, anyone who can't go into a test session and
walk out with an Extra just isn't trying.


Ummmm, if that's not an inference to "dumbed down" then what is?

Yeah, I know, Larry basically proved my point for me, and probably
doesn't even realize that he did so - but that doesn't mean that the
rest of the folks reading the exchange didn't catch it. Your post
proves that at least one person did.

Since you're the only one who pointed it out, you win this thread's
grand prize for the week. You can choose between two prizes of equal
value, either two cents towards your next rental of the movie
"Frequency" or an autographed photo of Dick Carroll. Before you make
your choice, I feel it is only fair for me to warn you that there is
no truth to the rumor that all existing photographs of Dick Carroll
have been superimposed onto dart boards - so you wouldn't be getting
any sort of home entertainment device by choosing that option.

Then, Larry goes on even more to say:


The current technical
requirements in the written exams are strictly amateur level, as they
should be, and prove little about a prospective ham's technical
competence. This he will have to prove to his/her fellow hams by
actual participation, which is subject to evaluation by his/her peers.


And, if you ain't on board with Larry's way of operating, then you ain't
Larry. And, if you ain't Larry, well, then...

....then you might not only own a microphone, but can probably manage
to locate it in less than three or four days.

And, here's the clincher from Larry:

You're entitled to your opinion. The problem is, the NCTA's don't think
I'm entitled to mine!

Yes...this is the guy who maintains that no-coders aren't qualified to
even have an opinion about CW...thus Larry doesn't think other people
are entitled to their own opinions but takes offense when he perceives
that someone else thinks he isn't entitled to his. How ironic, eh?

If I don't follow the rest of the flock of
lemmings,
put on my tie-dyed tee shirt, faded jeans and Birkenstock sandals, and
hold hands with them and sing "Kumbuya" as they chant their liberal,
politically-correct mantra of "inclusiveness" while celebrating the end
of the requirement to be tested for a useful communications skill, I may
as well take that .50AE and use my radio gear for target practice, as far
as
they're concerned!

Instead, I'm supposed to put on my pocket protector, slide rule, and
visor and hold hands with Larry and Dick and sing "The Telegrapher's
Lament" as they chant their mantra of dumbing down in the ARS while
bemoaning the end of the requirement to be tested for a communications
skill that is no longer used anywhere else BUT in the ARS. Hmmmm....

The NCTA are classic liberals, and like all liberals,
they can "tolerate" anything except a difference of opinion.

You do remember, Kim, that it was Larry and not I who holds no-code
hams unqualified to form an opinion, do you not?

Larry doesn't know we read between the lines...LOL

Sure he does. That's why he won't bite on the question of eating
elephant dung. By his own standards, he is not qualified to form an
opinion on eating elephant dung unless he has tried some, and he's not
about to admit having sampled the goods, now is he? Hmmm...no, I
suppose not...yet if he expresses the same opinion of eating elephant
dung that any sane individual would express he's hung on his own
petard by expressing an opinion that by his own insistence he is
unqualified to possess - at which point, feel free to join me in
insisting that he dine that evening as a guest at the elephant house
at the nearest zoo so as to lend an air of legitimacy to his opinion.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:11:43 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

There is a new article as of today on the ARRL site that also predicts about
two years. They also are of the opinion that the FCC will take no action on
its own but will only respond to petitions for changes. If that's indeed
the case, then someone has to file a petition, then there has to be time for
comments and related petitions, then the FCC needs to review it all and file
a NPRM and allow time for comments on that and so on.

Wouldn't it be ironic if nobody filed a petition because everybody
thought someone else was already doing it? You know, kinda like when
the band's open but nobody knows it because they're all sitting there
listening for somebody else to call CQ?

The other thing that occurs to me is, you could basically take the
database of comments filed during the inquiry that preceded the last
restructuring, stamp a new docket number on it, and get it over with.
We've all been through this before in excruciating detail.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ