Dwight Stewart wrote:

Zoning laws, job policies, and ham licenses, all serve a legitimate
purpose. Policies or rules designed solely to exclude don't.


How was I excluded from the ARS by the Morse code test?

How many people have been excluded?

- Mike KB3EIA -

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...

I've never claimed to be an "expert" on amateur radio or any part
of radio.

Holy-freakin'smokes. Hope Mrs. Lennie wasn't anywhere near THAT
nose, Putznocchio!

I've enjoyed a reasonably well-paying career in radio-
electronics engineering, something influenced by doing three
years of large-scale military communications before 1956.

Amassing war stories of battles he didn't fight in, it seems.

Lucky for you you were better at investing your money than you
were in electronics, huh, Lennie?

I can't help your obvious reading DISABILITY, old man. My bylines are
still there and my mailing address is still the same. You WILL find my
name on HR's masthead, too.

Yes...Your by-lines are there as is your name on some mastheads.

What's NOT there is any evidence that the work was yours, nor is
there any evidence of participation IN Amateur Radio, third-party
operator or otherwise.

And even MORE glaring is a lack of evidence that "your" work ever
influenced or complimented a single Amateur Radio related project or
program.

Not a one.

There's a website with a complete listing of HAM RADIO Magazine
articles...taken from HR's annual listings, probably. I don't have the
bookmark but you can find it through a search.

Of course I could get them out and do a manual
search just to see how much of a liar you really are, but naw, you're a
phoney
from the get-go and that'd be a waste of my time.

I wouldn't want your fantasy shattered. Keep believing your own lies.
You will find peace, happiness, and serentity in Nirvana of fantasy.

As YOU already have, it would seem, Lennie. You repeat them so
often, it MUST keep that "warm fuzzy" just that...

Whatever (if anything)
you may have contributed was too inconsequential to be of note.

How would you know?

The LACK of evidence is glaring, Sir Putzalot...Not a single
noteworthy item in ANY Amateur Radio related field save for your few
items in a now defunct magazine, and none of THAT verifyable as your
own work.

Hey, That's the way things work in the publishing world.

Again HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?

Have YOU ever sold any work to a publisher?

And if he HASN'T, Lennie?

I've sold work to five publishers of electronics interest, all of it without
once meeting the editors face to face. The work sold itself.

And I am sure the folks who did the real work appreciated you
doing that to see if it fell flat or not.

It was a FUN thing to do as a sideline, never intended to be of
"heavyweight" calibre.

Whew! Glad to hear that! That way you weren't disappointed!

And judging by the electronic world's complete ignorance of
Leonard H. Anderson, I'd say THAT speaks for the work too.

Feel free to spend weeks in the FCC Reading room, looking for all
those "bootlegging violations." You won't find any. I've never
bootlegged in radio or anything else under the ATF.

That simply means you didn't get caught. It's not evidence of
having not done it.

Army radio station ADA was hardly "obscure." It was in and near Tokyo
in central Honshu, rather farther up north from Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

Holy freakin smokes again ! ! !...Yet another diatribe on his
Army "career" of sixty years ago....

Rest snipped...Been there...read that...

It's not nice to insult my wife...who is NOT "mailorder" and NOT under
any psychosis, nor did she ever get her degrees from any
"correspondence school."

Glad to hear that...Rumor was that Sally Struthers was getting
ready to sue you for defaming correspondence schools.

N2JTV not only "heard of me," he served with me in the same time,
same job, on another team (we had four). Gene and I have since
talked long distance and exchanged mail. He lives in Long Island, NY,
but his radio activity is mostly with radio-controlled model aircraft.

As to "claims," it ain't braggin if ya done it. I did it.

Not as a licensed Amateur Radio operator you didn't.

OF COURSE YOU DID. You KNOW things that other folks DON'T.

Wow! Heavyweight FANTASY material, old timer.

Whew, Lennie...Ya better duck before that one has a chance to
swing around the pole and come back and belt ya one...

Yes, we all KNOW that Missouri is a Mecca of "heavy hardware
radio transmitting iron." Yup, you've told us. :-) :-) :-)

Live with it.
OBTW, I was in your backyard again last week. I visited Yaesu USA Center at
the
Vertex Standard building in Cypress, and we toured around the
region a bit just looking things over.
Can't say I envy you living there.The place leaves a bad taste in one's
mouth.
Literally. You don't know what clean air is.

Cypress is NOT even close to being in "my backyard."

Sure it is. Close enough to be there in 20 minutes...smog and
White Bronco pursuits notwithstanding.

California became the most populated state in the USA many years
ago. Many, many, many folks moved here because THEY liked it.

And now it's one of the most highly taxed, crime ridden places in
the United States.

Dunno about you, but I am impressed.

Best part of Californication I ever saw was in the rear view
mirror.

Steve, K4YZ

Dick Carroll; wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:


Dwight Stewart wrote:


Zoning laws, job policies, and ham licenses, all serve a legitimate
purpose. Policies or rules designed solely to exclude don't.

How was I excluded from the ARS by the Morse code test?

How many people have been excluded?


This is and has long been the common thread among codehaters. There is no
logic nor proof involved, and now the NCVAEC has taken up the very same
theme.
What a shame. I'm more than sure they'll have some crow to eat when all the
commenting is done.



And then after a couple years, that nasty test will be what is keeping
people out of the ARS.


- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote:

What are those "realistic needs and goals", Dwight?


Please, don't waste my time with silly questions like that, Mike. Every
ham knows, or should know, that the goals of Amateur Radio are specified in
97.1 of the Code of Federal Regulations. The needs are that necessary to
meet those goals.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Mike Coslo" wrote:

How was I excluded from the ARS by the Morse
code test?


In the past, you were not excluded (code testing served a need). However,
if code testing remains solely as a means to exclude "those people," others
in the future will be. "Those people" include anyone you set out to exclude.

You want stiffer written tests (or code testing) to exclude "dumbed down"
people. I don't agree with that. Show me something that individual has done
wrong and I'll support your efforts to get rid of that person. However, I'm
not willing to exclude groups of people simply because some don't like them
or a few in that group have done things some don't like.

Many don't like CB'ers and want stiffer written exams (or code testing) to
keep "those people" out. I don't agree with that. Again, if you want to
throw someone out because that person has broken the rules, I'm all for
that. However, I'm not willing to exclude someone from even getting into ham
radio simply because they once owned a CB radio and we don't like what some
did with those radios.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

In article , "Dick Carroll;"
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , "Dick Carroll;"

writes:

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote:

California became the most populated state in the USA many years
ago. Many, many, many folks moved here because THEY liked it.

And now it's one of the most highly taxed, crime ridden places in
the United States.

They face a $35BILLION budget shortfall for *this year* and they're not
finished counting yet. All those
"feel good" deals, and Putzie's vaunted emergency services bills coming
due.
Wonder what will be left when
it all settles out?
Quick and dirty math, that's at least $1000 for each citizen,
man-woman-child
residing there. One has to wonder when the big exodus will begin. So
they're
about to fire their Governor,
not that he could have done much to avoid it all.

And what will his replacement do to fix it?

From all I've read and heard, the reason for all these California crises
(remember the electric energy emrgency?) comes from a fundamental failure
of
the system and the voters there to connect rights with responsibilities.
IOW,
services are not connected to taxes.

They vote in all sorts of mandates but not the taxes to fund them.

And wouild you like to guess who's voting all that into being?

The voters

Hint: It's not the conservatives!

Seems like Liberalism is about to devout itself in the Sunshine State.

Actually, it's both. The "liberals" vote in the mandates. The "conservatives"
block the taxes. Both sides disconnect rights from responsibilities. You get
the worst of both worlds.

Look at their electric "deregulation" of a few years back. The retail prices
were regulated (classic big government utility/monopoly idea) but the wholesale
prices weren't (classic laissez-faire trickle-down supply-side
free-market-capitalism).

Coupled with that was the desire for high tech jobs and investment (Silicon
Valley) but not the responsibility to build the infrastructure to run it
(power lines, generating stations).

End result: Lotta people's lights went out.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
...
"Mike Coslo" wrote:

How was I excluded from the ARS by the Morse
code test?


In the past, you were not excluded (code testing served a need).
However,
if code testing remains solely as a means to exclude "those people,"
others
in the future will be. "Those people" include anyone you set out to
exclude.

You want stiffer written tests (or code testing) to exclude "dumbed
down"
people. I don't agree with that. Show me something that individual has
done
wrong and I'll support your efforts to get rid of that person. However,
I'm
not willing to exclude groups of people simply because some don't like
them
or a few in that group have done things some don't like.


Excellent point, Dwight. It is only recently that I have heard more and
more alignment with the philosophy [paraphrasing] that it's OK to filter out
bad people from the ARS by having CW as an element for testing. If it is
believed that taking that element away will "dumb down" the ARS; then it is
logical to make the assumption that many support CW as a filtering tool for
the ARS--which is disgusting.


Many don't like CB'ers and want stiffer written exams (or code testing)
to
keep "those people" out. I don't agree with that. Again, if you want to
throw someone out because that person has broken the rules, I'm all for
that. However, I'm not willing to exclude someone from even getting into
ham
radio simply because they once owned a CB radio and we don't like what
some
did with those radios.


It has become popular now, to label others as "those people." In ham radio,
in everyday life. If CW is serving as a "filtering tool" in the eyes of a
majority in ham radio--I say abolish it. But, I've a feeling the attitude
that it is a filtering tool is not prevalent. Thank goodness!!


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


Kim W5TIT


---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to

Dwight Stewart wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote:


How was I excluded from the ARS by the Morse
code test?



In the past, you were not excluded (code testing served a need). However,
if code testing remains solely as a means to exclude "those people," others
in the future will be. "Those people" include anyone you set out to exclude.

You want stiffer written tests (or code testing) to exclude "dumbed down"
people. I don't agree with that. Show me something that individual has done
wrong and I'll support your efforts to get rid of that person. However, I'm
not willing to exclude groups of people simply because some don't like them
or a few in that group have done things some don't like.

First off, I don't think I've ever said "dumbed down". If you know I
have, post the reference.

Now to the subject at hand.

I do not consider the Morse Code to be *any test of intelligence or
desirability whatsoever.

What I do consider it is a method of ensuring that the person actually
wants to be in the service. It is a measure of inclusivity, not
exclusivity. Kind of like learning to parallel park or do a three point
turn.

Many don't like CB'ers and want stiffer written exams (or code testing) to
keep "those people" out. I don't agree with that. Again, if you want to
throw someone out because that person has broken the rules, I'm all for
that. However, I'm not willing to exclude someone from even getting into ham
radio simply because they once owned a CB radio and we don't like what some
did with those radios.

You"re way off base with me Dwight. I own a CB radio - use it for
traveling. It's saved my tookus on a few occasions. I even had a
license, (my parents did to be precise, many years ago) KBM-8780.

We can be whatever we want to be. There is no argument that no license
testing is at all necessary at all in order to put up a station and
start transmitting as soon as the Morse code requirement is gone.

So we choose. We do already have indications of what the spectrum of
behaviors are. Right now, those who favor less knowledge have the upper
hand.

- Mike KB3EIA -

(N2EY) wrote in message ...



Hint: It's not the conservatives!

Seems like Liberalism is about to devout itself in the Sunshine State.

Actually, it's both. The "liberals" vote in the mandates. The "conservatives"
block the taxes. Both sides disconnect rights from responsibilities. You get
the worst of both worlds.

Look at their electric "deregulation" of a few years back. The retail prices
were regulated (classic big government utility/monopoly idea) but the wholesale
prices weren't (classic laissez-faire trickle-down supply-side
free-market-capitalism).

Coupled with that was the desire for high tech jobs and investment (Silicon
Valley) but not the responsibility to build the infrastructure to run it
(power lines, generating stations).

End result: Lotta people's lights went out.

Then they come up with notions like putting chunks of mind-bending
intellectual and political expertise like Arnold to work on leading
'em out of the swamp . .

Burlesque v.2003.

73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

Dwight Stewart wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote:


And then after a couple years, that nasty test
will be what is keeping people out of the ARS.



Yet, you and Dick are the only two in this thread who have even suggested
anything like that. Not a single person opposed to code testing has made any
such comments in this thread. And I certainly haven't made any comments
about reducing or eliminating the written tests.

It is simple crystal ball gazing, Dwight. I just look at a situation,
and work it out into the future. There are many people with many views,
people like you who support testing as it is now, and people who
support lessening the tests. BTW, I believe it was Bill Sohl who
proposed that sort of thing (yes, I know - not as an official NCI
position). At any rate, people being what they are, and now encouraged
by the recent changes, those who want less or no testing will feel
encouraged to speak up and see if they can get their wishes granted.

Nothing stays in one place. Liberals tend to get more liberal, and
conservatives get more conservative as they have success, until they
start getting out of touch with the mainstream. Some of you are just not
looking past the ends of your noses. The inability of people to set
still on something means that there will be calls to further "simplify"
or "make more inclusive" the requirements to be a Ham. Those of us who
think it should mean something will just be considered cranks.

As you no doubt consider us cranks, eh?


Most people are realistic.

Very true. Who among us, no matter what their opinion, doesn't think
they are being realistic? 8^)

I support keeping the written tests because
those tests serve a purpose which benefits me and the entire ham radio
community. Code testing, which a few of you can't seem to get past, doesn't
today.

My comments about "keeping people out," or excluding people, only had to
do with test requirements designed to exclude instead of serving a need for
ham radio. Code testing once served a need, so did not exclude at that time.
If it remains today solely as a barrier to keep others out, it does exclude.

As does any test whatsoever! Testing in any form is a matter of your
definition exclusion, With even as hard a time as I had learning Morse
code, it is not harder than the rest of the testing regimen.


Brian's idea of stiffer written exams don't exclude if it serves a purpose
or need. However, if done solely to keep others out, it also does exclude.

How many CB'ers (who are not Hams already) have been tested for access
to their band? Many are running serious power, and they can put up
antennas and put rigs together. And operate just fine.

There is just no NEED for any testing whatsoever in order to do the
physical act of getting on the air. No need at all!

Unless of course, you would like to have the ARS mean a bit more than
Citizen's band radio.

We have to as hams decide just how adroit we want the new ham to be. As
the new lords of the hood, you NCTA's have to make sure of that.


Again, once we start down the path of excluding others, when does it stop
and who else do we exclude? Am I next in the list? Are you?

I wasn't going to say this, but I'm weary of the "exclusive" sthick
going on. I know a young lady who is a General class ham. She works
mostly CW. She's a pretty darn good Operator too. I'm not going to give
out her name or callsign to protect her privacy

She is also a person who attended special education classes for her
education. A dear woman, but not as smart as the average person.

And yet, somehow, some way, she learned Morse code, studied for and
passed the General test, and is now on the air as an active ham.

When I see the whining about exclusivity, and all the other complaining
about how unfair the Morse code test, I often think of her.

Then I think of the complainers and compare them, who think it is just
too hard, and her, she who took the trouble to learn, even though she
has not been blessed with the same gifts as most of us. She's a
brother/sister ham, and I'm happy and proud to INCLUDE her in the service.

Wanna guess who I respect more?

- Mike KB3EIA -