Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 4/27/2004 1:22 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:


And how long would it take a "new" Ham to master using a keyboard?


We had a kid come on and operate psk31 almost immediately...(SNIP)


That's my point! Almsot anyone can do it. So why give it par-level
scoring with Morse Code?


Just seems like the ones I participate in give double for the CW. I'll
need to look some more.


I am contemplating a trip to VO1 for Sweepstakes this year. I had hoped
to go last year but a family emergency canx'd that idea. Not sure if I will go
for CW or SSB weekend, tho...Can't swing both!


Now that should be a cool trip. One of these years I want to make it to
Newfoundland.


- Mike KB3EIA -

Subject: Morse and Contests
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 4/28/2004 2:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:
Subject: Morse and Contests

I am contemplating a trip to VO1 for Sweepstakes this year. I had
hoped
to go last year but a family emergency canx'd that idea. Not sure if I
will go
for CW or SSB weekend, tho...Can't swing both!

Now that should be a cool trip. One of these years I want to make it to

Newfoundland.

Yeah...but in November...?!?!

I can hack wet, and I can hack cold...wet and cold doesn't seem to be a
very comforting combination...! I have put out a solicitation on my
"ER-Nurses" list server and have already received some responses from my
colleagues in Canada with info on lodging opportunities. I hope to find a nice
cabin somewhere.

73

Steve, K4YZ

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net...
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 4/27/2004 7:34 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Idly musing, I thought of this a few moments ago. It isn't a CW testing

question, but is related by being a CW operating question.

With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any reason to
have contests give double the points for Morse code contacts?

Sure...why not? It requires some REAL skill to do. In this regard,
as in
any other pursuit in life, greater skill should be rewarded.

While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does it
make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than others?

Not "more equal"...Just better compensation.

As a Nurse with my experience, credentials and skills, I expect to be
compensated accordiningly. So why not be "compensated" in a contest that
required using honed skills, too...?!?!

Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth double
points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the same double
points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked up a fair number of
points operating PSK31, and it was certainly no more difficult than
operating Phone.

And how long would it take a "new" Ham to master using a keyboard?

I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked hard and
logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op with little more
than half that number.

Shudda been on the paddles!

Seriously, though...Most contests differentiatemodes in awards...

Steve, K4YZ





Simply stated....CW Contesting requires real skills. Digital requires the
ability to type.
Phone is way down there from the above requirements.

If you want to do so....Give phone 1 point, digital 2 points, and CW 5
points per qso.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Dan/W4NTI

Your opinion looks wrong to me.

My opinion is that the point schedule should be inverted from what you
propose. I mean, when Aaron Jones was keeping the Morse Myths list,
it would appear that a CW QSO just couldn't fail. It always got
through, no matter the propogation, the power level, the QRN, or the
QRM. Each and every Op would QRS for the new guy and everything was
just so wonderful.

Meanwhile phone Ops practice dog-eat-dog, QRM each other, use bad
phonetics, and propogation is always iffy. Furthermore, they marry
their Technician sisters and don't even QSL.

Bass turds!

Give the phone ops 5 pts per completed QSO, the CW Ops get 1.

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 4/27/2004 8:55 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


I've tried running a frequency on SSB contests but just don't get enough
takers to make it worthwhile so I finally end up doing the "search and
pounce". I'm not good enough yet to run a frequency on CW so by necessity
do "search and pounce" when operating in this mode.


I had a lot more fun just setting a "personal goal" and working towards
that when I get into a contest. I set out to get a "Clean Sweep" a few yeas
ago and did it...with less than 150 Q's on each mode!

My goal is to try to up my personal best each time I revisit the same
contest. Two years in a row now, I have missed getting all 67 counties
in the PAQSO by *one* county. That is my biggest goal this year. Second
goal is to be first from PA in the New England QSO party. I've been
stuck at third for the last two years. I did a lot better last year than
the year before, but so have the people I'm competing with.


I'm wondering how many S-units will be added to my 100 watt mobile signal
if it's "/VO1" in the next Sweepstakes...?!?!

You gonna be pop-u-lar! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Jack Twilley wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


"Dee" == Dee D Flint writes:


[... I suggested an experiment ...]

Dee Actually Jack, that would not be quite a fair measurement. The
Dee CW op has put in many hours of practicing and participating in
Dee contests to get his/her speed up to a really useful contest
Dee level. Although the phone op has also put in hours participating
Dee in contests to get his/her abilities honed to contest level, it
Dee is far fewer hours than the CW op to get to the top levels of
Dee ability. So the double points, at least to me, also acknowledges
Dee the longer preparatory stage that it takes to get good at it.

Not all CW ops put in as many hours of practice, and some phone ops
put in serious hours. My first contest -- as an Extra, no less -- was
a Field Day. I was terrified of the microphone, and spent more than
six hours practicing calling into a dead mike. It may sound stupid to
some of you, but I was really really really shy. We had a written
script to follow: "CQ Field Day, CQ Field Day, this is Whiskey Six
Charlie X-Ray" was the first line, then the next line included the
response with blanks to fill in, and even a line to thank the other
amateur and wish them luck in the contest. I don't think of this as
being the same as a voice keyer, by the way.

Definitely not! I am a firm believer that Contesting can be a great way
to get people involved in ham radio. Many of them don't quite know what
to say the first times, and a set call/reply/response gives a structure
to the QSO. After that, they can develop their own personal manner of
speaking during the QSO. I think what you did is the only way to go for
new folk.


We were actually pushing
the mike button and speaking, which was very exciting. The one thing
that was more fun than calling CQ was being the control op for
Technicians and non-amateurs who wanted to give it a try. One Tech
got the Cooke Islands as his first QSO, and he's now a General.

Oh yeah, lightning strikes! Not to sound gushy, but imagine what was
going through his mind at the moment.

Contesting was what started me on the upgrade path. At one time I was
happy to just use the repeater and was going to do things on VHF and up.
- Mike KB3EIA -

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

Subject: Morse and Contests
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 4/28/2004 2:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

Subject: Morse and Contests


I am contemplating a trip to VO1 for Sweepstakes this year. I had

hoped

to go last year but a family emergency canx'd that idea. Not sure if I

will go

for CW or SSB weekend, tho...Can't swing both!

Now that should be a cool trip. One of these years I want to make it to


Newfoundland.


Yeah...but in November...?!?!

I can hack wet, and I can hack cold...wet and cold doesn't seem to be a
very comforting combination...! I have put out a solicitation on my
"ER-Nurses" list server and have already received some responses from my
colleagues in Canada with info on lodging opportunities. I hope to find a nice
cabin somewhere.

Well, I went to the "Winterlude" in Ottawa this past February. Did you
know that Ottawa is the second coldest countries capital in the world -
the coldest is in one of the 'Stans! Anyhow, the people in Ottawa, after
being socked in during November, December and January, finally go
bonkers when the days get longer and the cold loses a little of it's
grip. They then pretend it is warmer than it really is, and have three
weekends of partying outside. Very cool, if crazy. I had a blast. My son
and I took a many mile skate on the Rideau canal, which freezes over
entirely during the winter. They even have concessions on the canal,
and flood it to resurface the ice for a good skate.

They really know how to do winter in Canada, so you'll be taken care of
well, youbet.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"William" wrote in message
om...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 4/27/2004 7:34 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Idly musing, I thought of this a few moments ago. It isn't a CW
testing

question, but is related by being a CW operating question.

With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any reason to
have contests give double the points for Morse code contacts?

Sure...why not? It requires some REAL skill to do. In this
regard,
as in
any other pursuit in life, greater skill should be rewarded.

While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does it
make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than others?

Not "more equal"...Just better compensation.

As a Nurse with my experience, credentials and skills, I expect to
be
compensated accordiningly. So why not be "compensated" in a contest
that
required using honed skills, too...?!?!

Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth
double
points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the same double
points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked up a fair number
of
points operating PSK31, and it was certainly no more difficult than
operating Phone.

And how long would it take a "new" Ham to master using a
keyboard?

I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked hard
and
logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op with little more
than half that number.

Shudda been on the paddles!

Seriously, though...Most contests differentiatemodes in awards...

Steve, K4YZ





Simply stated....CW Contesting requires real skills. Digital requires
the
ability to type.
Phone is way down there from the above requirements.

If you want to do so....Give phone 1 point, digital 2 points, and CW 5
points per qso.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Dan/W4NTI

Your opinion looks wrong to me.

My opinion is that the point schedule should be inverted from what you
propose. I mean, when Aaron Jones was keeping the Morse Myths list,
it would appear that a CW QSO just couldn't fail. It always got
through, no matter the propogation, the power level, the QRN, or the
QRM. Each and every Op would QRS for the new guy and everything was
just so wonderful.

Meanwhile phone Ops practice dog-eat-dog, QRM each other, use bad
phonetics, and propogation is always iffy. Furthermore, they marry
their Technician sisters and don't even QSL.

Bass turds!

Give the phone ops 5 pts per completed QSO, the CW Ops get 1.

And what was your score in the last major DX contest? Or lets make it
easier. How many DX QSO's have you had in a major contest....????

If under 300, you are disqualified from inputing on this discussioon.

Dan/W4NTI

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 4/27/2004 8:55 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


I've tried running a frequency on SSB contests but just don't get enough
takers to make it worthwhile so I finally end up doing the "search and
pounce". I'm not good enough yet to run a frequency on CW so by
necessity
do "search and pounce" when operating in this mode.


I had a lot more fun just setting a "personal goal" and working
towards
that when I get into a contest. I set out to get a "Clean Sweep" a few
yeas
ago and did it...with less than 150 Q's on each mode!

My goal is to try to up my personal best each time I revisit the same
contest. Two years in a row now, I have missed getting all 67 counties
in the PAQSO by *one* county. That is my biggest goal this year. Second
goal is to be first from PA in the New England QSO party. I've been
stuck at third for the last two years. I did a lot better last year than
the year before, but so have the people I'm competing with.


I'm wondering how many S-units will be added to my 100 watt mobile
signal
if it's "/VO1" in the next Sweepstakes...?!?!

You gonna be pop-u-lar! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -


I would rather see him sign from the Yukon myself. Much rarer.

Dan/W4NTI

bject: Morse and Contests
From: "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@getrid of this mindspring.com
Date: 4/29/2004 12:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"William" wrote in message
. com...
Meanwhile phone Ops practice dog-eat-dog, QRM each other, use bad
phonetics, and propogation is always iffy. Furthermore, they marry
their Technician sisters and don't even QSL.

Bass turds!

Give the phone ops 5 pts per completed QSO, the CW Ops get 1.

And what was your score in the last major DX contest? Or lets make it
easier. How many DX QSO's have you had in a major contest....????

If under 300, you are disqualified from inputing on this discussioon.

Better yet, how many DX contacts has he made as a duly-authorized control
operator from a DX location...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

Subject: Morse and Contests
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 4/27/2004 8:55 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


I've tried running a frequency on SSB contests but just don't get enough
takers to make it worthwhile so I finally end up doing the "search and
pounce". I'm not good enough yet to run a frequency on CW so by

necessity

do "search and pounce" when operating in this mode.


I had a lot more fun just setting a "personal goal" and working

towards

that when I get into a contest. I set out to get a "Clean Sweep" a few

yeas

ago and did it...with less than 150 Q's on each mode!

My goal is to try to up my personal best each time I revisit the same
contest. Two years in a row now, I have missed getting all 67 counties
in the PAQSO by *one* county. That is my biggest goal this year. Second
goal is to be first from PA in the New England QSO party. I've been
stuck at third for the last two years. I did a lot better last year than
the year before, but so have the people I'm competing with.



I'm wondering how many S-units will be added to my 100 watt mobile

signal

if it's "/VO1" in the next Sweepstakes...?!?!

You gonna be pop-u-lar! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -



I would rather see him sign from the Yukon myself. Much rarer.


That would be a real adventure during that time of the year. I never
had a VE8 (why does that remind me of a commercial??) ever, much less in
a contest.

- mike KB3EIA -