In article , "Dee D. Flint" Mama Dee
speaking to her children writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Hams - old and new - didn't change the exam procedures. Neither did
ARRL, NCI, NCVEC or any other ham group. FCC did, because it saved
them resources.

We aren't going to a system other than multiple-choice
published-Q&A-pool exams in the foreseeable future. Just not gonna
happen.

ANd then there's the question of what knowledge should be expected from
applicants anyway. Does it really require more knowledge and skill to
operate on 14.167 vs 14.344?

More spectrum is simply the reward system in use. It was chosen in large
part
because it's easy to enforce.

Not only was it easy to enforce but it was selected because it was a
desireable enough reward that people would put in the training to get it.

Utter nonsense, Mama Dee. Spin-like rationalization.

AMATEUR radio is a hobby, not a national service, not an arm of the
United States Navy or the rest of the military, and not a public safety
organization. Just a hobby involving radio.

AMATEUR radio long ago CEASED to be a "pool of experienced morse
operators" for any national need. The nation does NOT need morse
operators, haven't for a long time.

Most rewards in the real world have little relationship to the work
requested.

More spin crappola. The influential morsemen at the League
managed to carve out a separate little morse playground for
themselves with all sorts of fatuous phrases of "national need" and
"importance of a pool of trained operators" and the FCC caved in
to their demands.

You see it in the home too. Kid asks, "Dad can I borrow the
car?" Parent replies, "After you mow the front & back lawn and run the
edger." There is absolutely no relationship between the two activities.
The kid gets a highly desired reward for work that he/she probably doesn't
care to do but does it anyway to get the reward.

So, the League is a surrogate parent?!? I don't think so.

Are all the Amateur Extras surrogate parents now? I don't think so.

Dee, quit this infernal nattering about "parentage" and ham radio.

Quit trying to sound off like you've got an influential pair. You aren't
a radioactive au pair and this ain't the Children's Hour (even is some of
the other extras act like children).

Just face the reality of the matter. Morsemen got their little CW
playground and should be happy. Professional communicators they
ain't, even if they want, desperately, to be oh, so very pro.

LHA / WMD

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Hams - old and new - didn't change the exam procedures. Neither did
ARRL, NCI, NCVEC or any other ham group. FCC did, because it saved
them resources.

We aren't going to a system other than multiple-choice
published-Q&A-pool exams in the foreseeable future. Just not gonna
happen.

ANd then there's the question of what knowledge should be expected from
applicants anyway. Does it really require more knowledge and skill to
operate on 14.167 vs 14.344?

More spectrum is simply the reward system in use. It was chosen in large part
because it's easy to enforce.

Nonsense for the new millennium.

The separate, elite morsemen-only portions of the ham bands were
put there by old morsemen who were able to influence League
lobbying.

What is this "easy to enforce" nonsense? The FCC reads morse
easier than it can voice? [I don't think so] Can the FCC DF on
OOK-CW signals "easier" than voice signals? [I don't think so]

All of the morsemen's propaganda is just spin to keep their little
morse playground. No more, no less.

You will be angry and disturbed at such direct language, but, like
Ernestine's creator put it..."plbthththt...and that's the absolute
truth." :-)

LHA / WMD

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 7/14/2004 3:53 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , "Dee D. Flint" Mama Dee
speaking to her children writes:

SNIPPED

"I am only here to civilly debate the Morse Code test issue".

The lies keep on coming.....Makes ME want to run right out and become a
"radio professional"....NOT.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

In article et, "KØHB"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote

Code groups are harder to copy than plain language, too.

On the contrary, when copying for a speed test (verbatim hard copy) 5
letter coded groups are FAR easier to copy than plain text.

Well, Hans, IIRC the test standards usually worked the other way. IOW the
required speed was higher for plain text than for coded groups.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean it was harder. Since truly coded groups
lose the advantage of variable-lenght (Hoffman?) coding, that could account for
the speed difference.

It does make sense that copying code groups eliminates the need for one skill:
figuring out word spaces. You *know* that each group is 5 characters long.

Most Navy
operators could copy coded groups at a about speed 20% higher than plain
text press.

Well, that proves your point. Perhaps the difference in percevied difficulty
comes from the fact that most nonmilitary CW ops don't get a lot of practice on
code groups.

So I'll revise my statement:

"Whether code groups or plain language is harder to copy depends entirely on
the operator. Those with extensive experience in both report that code groups
are actually easier to copy."

Thanks for the info.

73 de Jim, N2EY

ANd then there's the question of what knowledge should be expected from
applicants anyway. Does it really require more knowledge and skill to
operate on 14.167 vs 14.344?

More spectrum is simply the reward system in use. It was chosen in large

part

because it's easy to enforce.

73 de Jim, N2EY




Not only was it easy to enforce but it was selected because it was a
desireable enough reward that people would put in the training to get it.


But what does the FCC get out of it?

Not only was it easy to enforce but it was selected because it was a
desireable enough reward that people would put in the training to get it.

Most rewards in the real world have little relationship to the work
requested. You see it in the home too. Kid asks, "Dad can I borrow the
car?" Parent replies, "After you mow the front & back lawn and run the
edger." There is absolutely no relationship between the two activities.
The kid gets a highly desired reward for work that he/she probably doesn't
care to do but does it anyway to get the reward.

SOme kids and others may decide that the reward is not worth the trouble
and time needed to do the required chore. If it's an option, vs having
to take some stupid class in HS or college because some curriculum
committee decided that it was necessary. Not graduating is not
a desirable option. I had to take 3 years of Spanish class in HS, but
as I don't own a landscaping company, it was a waste of time. :-)
Japanese would have been a better choice, but they didn't have it.
Some kids may feel that they are saddled with non-optional requirements
may decide to edit out of their lives any optional requirements and
forgo the ham license or similar.

Is it true that Navy Radioman all had two little deformed shriveled up
balls?

Only if they were working too close to the microwave radars...

;-)

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote

It does make sense that copying code groups eliminates
the need for one skill: figuring out word spaces. You
*know* that each group is 5 characters long.

That's one factor, but a more important one is that the operator
copying coded groups has no temptation to 'understand' the message
being copied. This has two implications ---

1) The operator will not (consciously or unconsciously) attempt to
anticipate the word being sent, thus will not get 'flummoxed' when the
expected word is incorrect (for example hearing 't h e s' he might
expect the word to be "these" and transcribe it that way, only to have
it turn out to be "thespian", causing him to drop out of his "zone" to
fix the error, perhaps missing the following word.

2) If the operator is not trying to 'understand' the message being
copied, the mechanics of copying become more 'automatic' with (as one
old telegrapher described to me) a mode in which "the message follows
a short circuit between the eardrum and the fingertips without passing
through the brain". From this mode come the (true) tales of operators
who could seemingly "multi-task" copying Morse at a subcounscious
level, and carry on other activitives like carry on a conversation,
retune the receiver, or read a book at the same time.

73, de Hans, K0HB

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Hams - old and new - didn't change the exam procedures. Neither did
ARRL, NCI, NCVEC or any other ham group. FCC did, because it saved
them resources.

We aren't going to a system other than multiple-choice
published-Q&A-pool exams in the foreseeable future. Just not gonna
happen.

ANd then there's the question of what knowledge should be expected from
applicants anyway. Does it really require more knowledge and skill to
operate on 14.167 vs 14.344?

More spectrum is simply the reward system in use. It was chosen in large
part because it's easy to enforce.

Not only was it easy to enforce but it was selected because it was a
desireable enough reward that people would put in the training to get it.

Most rewards in the real world have little relationship to the work
requested. You see it in the home too. Kid asks, "Dad can I borrow the
car?" Parent replies, "After you mow the front & back lawn and run the
edger." There is absolutely no relationship between the two activities.

Actually, there is a relationship - or connection might be a better word.

You're right that driving a car doesn't require lawn-mowing skills or
accomplishments.

But in the case cited above, Kid is part of the family. In order to use the
family's resources (the car, which Parents bought and paid for) Kid has to
contribute something - in the cited case, the lawn care. The relationship
between the car use and the lawn care is one of responsibility and being part
of a group.

Have you ever seen a family where the kids are given everything they want but
not required to contribute anything? Ever see what sort of adults those kids
become?

73 de Jim, N2EY



The kid gets a highly desired reward for work that he/she probably doesn't
care to do but does it anyway to get the reward.

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

ANd then there's the question of what knowledge should be expected from
applicants anyway. Does it really require more knowledge and skill to
operate on 14.167 vs 14.344?

More spectrum is simply the reward system in use. It was chosen in large
part because it's easy to enforce.

Not only was it easy to enforce but it was selected because it was a
desireable enough reward that people would put in the training to get it.

But what does the FCC get out of it?

The whole concept of a license system with multiple levels of knowledge and
privileges.

73 de Jim, N2EY