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July 18th 04, 01:29 AM

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message ...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...
[snip]
The important question is, who is the best judge of what the requirements
should be? The newcomer or the experienced ham?

That is the very crux of the problem. Somehow too many have lost sight of
the fact that those with experience should be the ones to define the
requirements.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

The crux of the problem is that somehow too many think that they
define the requirements. The inmates think they are in charge of the
asylum.

July 18th 04, 02:43 AM

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

Len, he's a freak. Stay away. "Danger Will Robinson. Danger!"

I'm still waiting "to be picked up by the authorities alerted by the
call made by that mental health professional" idiot, nursie.

I still can't believe he broadcast that claim of being "able to pick
up a phone and have us committed" all over the Internet via
this newsgroup! :-)

He HAS lost all touch with reality. Nutso. Whacked-out.
Zoned on his own peyote-chewing dreamland.

He IS "Lost in Space!" :-)

LHA / WMD

"Dialing..." Hi, hi, har dee har.

July 18th 04, 02:57 AM

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , (Steve
Stalker, Paranoid Ethnic Cleanser Exxtra) writes:

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 7/16/2004 5:02 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Poor obsessed, delusional nursie. Can't imagine that anyone
else doesn't like the Stalking Mighty Macho Morseman. Thinks
all who say negative to nursie are all pseudonyms of me.

They usually ARE you, Lennie.

LIE, nursie. You LIE.

PROVE all those "others" are really "me."

I don't need any pseudonyms.

Others, real-others, may need them. Their choice.

Poor nursie. Real others who won't agree with him...

Nursie can't hack that. Thinks they are all "me." Paranoia!

All a Big Conspiracy To Get Steve da Stalker!

Go back to your fantasyworld dream land, Stalker...

LHA / WMD

We're back to fruitcake. With rum.

July 18th 04, 03:56 AM

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Did you highlight the right answers or black out the wrong ones?

Neither!

Impressive.

Continued taking the online tests. For every question I got wrong on
the tests, I researched out the answer. Sources were reference books and
the 'net.

Yep.

Continued until I scored 100 percent pretty consistently.

And the actual test was a breeze, right?

Wasn't too bad.

Of course you passed.

What you did was to 'study the test'. Which isn't "wrong" or illegal,
despite
what some may rant about it. You did what worked for you, within the rules.

Here's the thing, Jim. I can still remember the right answers. So did I
learn the material?

Maybe. If you were given a new exam on the same material that used completely
different questions and answers, could you pass it? If so, then you know the
material.

*If* you only care about right answers rather than understanding.

Not really. I saw a electrician licensing test book with question pool
recently. Lives depend on the electrician doing safe and proper work.
and they are depending on the Electrician knowing.

But someone cannot become a licensed electrician by written tests alone.
There
are extensive practical tests and experience requirements as well, and
several
levels of licensing. IIRC, here in PA it takes 9000 hours of documented
work
experience under the supervision of a licensed electrician to be licensed
at
the highest level.

Sure, but if you flunk the test, question pool and all, then you
aren't an electrician. 9000 hours of training aside.

Point is, if you pass the test but don;t have the 9000 hours you aren't an
electrician either.

For example, I could ask:

- Which of the following are blunatrons? (Flufnagles, zinthorps, calinars,
rhenotors)

A) Fluffnagles and rhenotors only
B) Zinthorps only
C) Calinars and zinthorps only
D) Calinars, zinthorps and fluffnagles

(Of course the correct answer is C)

Your not going to catch me in a trick question, Mr. Micollis! Zinthorps

only exist at a temperature of absolute zero, and even then it's only a
theory!..........

Doesn't matter because the question pool committee has determined that C is the
correct answer. Note that there is no answer which reads "Calinars only".

Besides, you should know by now that a new type of superconducting
nanotechnology zinthorp has been developed that is real, not theory.
Impractical now because of the requirements for liquid helium cooling but in a
few years, who knows?

Now, if you remember that calinars and zinthorps are blunatrons but
fluffnagles
and rhenotors aren't, you'll always get the question right. But do you
really understand anything about blunatrons?

There was an old song called "Patches" that you may recall from high
school
days. Man is remembering how tough he had it as a kid. Among the folks I
grew up with, we still use the line

"And then the rains came, and washed all the crops away"

whenever somebody starts geezering.

hehe, I used to do a good rendition of the line after that - "And at
the age of thirteen, I felt I had the weight of the whooole world on my
shoulders" 8^)

"And Mama knew what I was going through..."

That's the one!

It's particularly effective when someone is going on and one about
something
like how tough it was to find a parking space, or how long the line at
Starbucks was this morning,

That's how the Republican party got started isn't it? ;^)

Exactly.

and three people do it, one taking each line...

"in harmony"

If the test administrator looks like Heidi Klum, or if I get to be *her*
test
administrator, I'll volunteer to put the system throuigh its paces. Heck,
I'll sign up for two weeks......

I've got dibs on Ms. Klum if she ever needs a ham radio instructor.

Nice lass. Can you believe I had to look her up on the web?

You must not pay attention to the magazine racks in the supermarket checkout
line...

Big problem is the name. I keep thinking of the old story of "Heidi", although
the
real one bears no resemblance!!

I also claim dibs on Molly Sims...

73 de Jim, N2EY

July 18th 04, 04:25 AM

July 18th 04, 04:25 AM

In article , (Stevie
Stalker, Exxtra Ethnic Cleanser who swallowed his own Fleet Kit) writes:

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 7/17/2004 10:32 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
[snip]
The important question is, who is the best judge of what the requirements
should be? The newcomer or the experienced ham?

That is the very crux of the problem. Somehow too many have lost sight of
the fact that those with experience should be the ones to define the
requirements.

But it also needs to be the RIGHT experience.

[introduction to another hate-filled obsessive need to defame
another...]

Lennie the Liar has a lot of "experience" in SOME radio matters, but
zero-point-zero percent of it is as an Amateur Radio licensee.

"SOME?" Like since 1953? Like since 1956?

What has nursie done in that other "SOME" of radio? Answrer:
Nottadamnthing. :-)

Also
zero-point-zero experience in "emergency communications".

WRONG. Use Rev. Jim's Time Mashine and go back to 1994.
Some earth-shaking news awaits you, nursie.

His "traffic
handling" experience was as a radio clerk in the Army in the FIFTIES, and his
experience in practical avionics goes back to his days as a STUDENT (never
licensed) pilot back when Lear organ-grinder radios were the "state of the
art".

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

MOS 281.6 - Microwave Radio Relay Operations and Service
Supervisor plus brevet MOSs of Fixed Station Transmitter
Operations and Service, Carrier Systems Operations and
Service. [the "point-6" in that old MOS numbering is the
indicator of supervisory duties which I had as an E-5 S/Sgt]
1953 to 1956. "Three up and one down" after just 2 1/2
years. Earned.

"Practical avionics" includes airborne radar (both military and
civilian), airborne radionavigation equipment (TACAN, DME,
VOR, Localizer, Glideslope, and Marker Beacon) plus several
missle systems which few will know about, such as the old
Hughes Aircraft "Falcon" series or "Maverick." That at, in
chronological order, Ramo-Wooldridge (the "R" and "W" of
TRW now), Micro-Radionics Inc., Van Nuys, CA, EOS
[Electro-Optical Systems] a division of Xerox, Pasadena, CA
(mostly spacecraft stuff), RCA Corporation EASD (Electro-
magnetic and Aviation Systems Division), Van Nuys, CA,
Hughes Aircraft Missle Division (Hughes for the 2nd time,
this at the same buildings once leased by R-W), Canoga
Park, CA, and Teledyne Electronics, Newbury Park, CA
[designers and manufacturers of military transponders, what
civilians call "IFF"]. Wanna talk how that marvelous VOR
works? No problem...old NARCO box or an RCA 3 1/2"
instrument package that has it all...Nav and Com, with
MB and LOC and GS all packed in behind the OBS.
Wanna talk ground station VOR or TACAN? No problem
there, either. Wanna talk on-the-air while airborne? No
problem, done that too and not just with some UNICOM at
a grass field. More like the Western Airlines maintenance
facility at LAX.

BTW, oh great and ignorant bird of the radio universe, the
Army didn't have a "message center" at ADA. Other Army
message centers fed it and were fed in turn...ADA kept the
radio circuits working. They still do that as they did at Fort
Irwin in 1989 for regimental level field radio (quite a bit different
than 35 years prior). No manual telegraphy in the 50s, not in
the 80s, the 90s, or this new millennium.

Sunnuvagun! Who would a thought it? No CW! :-)

Would you want HIM making binding decisions for you in regards to
Amateur Radio policy?

Yes, why trust the FCC to regulate amateur radio? None at the
FCC need have ham licenses to do that. Not even the FDA needs
ham licenses and they stamp the hams. Too.

Riiiiiight...keep the beepers in charge of hum raddio...those mighty
macho morsemen keeping the airwaves pristine with the musick of
morse as they did in the old, old days. Archaic Radio Service, the
ARS of yeasteryear! [all rise...]

When Lennie discusses matters of technical interest I sit up and pay
attention...but that's ALL people like him CAN talk about.

As Luke said to Obi Wan Kenobi, "Force off, Obi!"

Your NF off! [Noise Figure, that is...wayyyyy too high...]

I know people like him in my professional life too...people who can
recite the textbooks and history annals inside and out...but don't have a
valid
clue as to HOW to apply what they know. People like that are dangerous.

Oh, my, the mighty macho morseman crowns hisself King of the
Karing once again. Real MDs who've gone through the rigors of
med school and internship (and having to listen to know-it-all
nursies try to tell them what to do) "don't know enough to apply!"
Oh, my, TN state should have given him a MD to put behind his
name? [yes, if it means "Morose Dysfunctional"]

When the chips are down, two things happen with nursie: First,
he don't know one chip from another or how they are supposed to
work; two, his Mouth will get working and his pudgy fingers will
type out all kinds of schmucky nastygrams in the newsgrope
(mouth has to snarl and mutter as he shouts via the keyboard).

Want radio OPERATING? Sure. No problem. Done it from
land, from water, from a cockpit while aloft. Want space comms?
Sorry, you can't do that yet, NASA can't afford to send Morose
Dysfunctionals off on expensive spaceships. I'll just stand in the
JPL mission control room (as I've done for a few missions) and
watch the live data come in from Mars or wherever. That be happy.
I've "worked" a station ON the moon. Stalker Stevie never did.

Goldstone more fun place, though it be hot, hot. Clear Lake fun
for a visit but I wouldn't wanna work there ("failure no option" in
the old days, not quite so now). Wanna get up at Oh-Dark-
Thirty to prep telemetry for an avionics package on a fast mover?
Done that too. Edwards. China Lake. Kern County Airport #7
(Mojave). Phooey, like my mornings quiet and late. Who needs
all that sweat to push envelopes? :-) Given my sweat, pushed an
envelope a couple times, sweated in the labs producing goodness
and newness, seen it work.

Ham radio would be fun. But, all the "intelligent people" wanna
recreate the hoary halcion days of the 1920s and 1930s. Phooey
on them and Morris Goad. "Intelligent people" love spark Tx and
Galena Rx? They be nutso, whacked-out. Keep on recreating
Civil War of a kind, the ones between the beepers and talkers.

Beep, beep.

LHA / WMD

July 18th 04, 04:25 AM

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

Have you ever seen a family where the kids are given everything they want
but
not required to contribute anything? Ever see what sort of adults those
kids
become?

Six-year-old Novices and Nine-year-old Extras? :-)

LHA / WMD

August QST: Twelve year old Extra in Kentucky. And a shack to die for.

I don't read QST regularly. Might drop in at the Burbank HRO
next time we shop at Ralphs market across Buena Vista.

Gotcha. Kentucky shack. Paid for with paper route earnings?

:-)

LHA / WMD

July 18th 04, 04:25 AM

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"William" wrote in message
. com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...

The important question is, who is the best judge of what the
requirements
should be? The newcomer or the experienced ham?

73 de Jim, N2EY

Jim, many experienced amateurs have spoken agains the continued use of
the Morse Code as a filter. You ignore them, or say they must be
wrong. Luckily, hams don't decide, necomer or otherwise. The FCC
does, and they see merit in the reasonable arguments put forth by
those experienced hams.

Best of Luck

Please post the URLs of the surveys to back up your claim. How "many?" Is
it a majority or is it just a vocal minority?

Official numbers with lots of statistical qualifications?

Or the "official" views of the ARRL (which is decidedly biased in
favor of morsemanship for amateurs)?

[readers WILL know what your answer will be]

So far the FCC has done nothing with the innumerable petitions nor have the
acted unilaterally to implement the change now allowed by the international
treaty. At this point it is premature to say that the FCC sees merit in
either side of the question.

The number of petitions for consideration are 18. Rather a large
number for such a small radio service. On top of that, the FCC is
going to do an R&O which is largely "rules housekeeping" and has
nothing to do with code testing.

Your point - and it must be obvious to most readers - is that you
are miffed as well as adamant about keeping the code test.

Any intelligent person doesn't consider it a filter.

Any "intelligent person" would consider your statement as utter
NONSENSE! :-)

Mama Dee, you are sounding way too officious and arrogant and
elitist when saying that "intelligent people don't consider it a filter."

Intelligent people can see the whole of the radio environment
and conclude that the morse code test is just an old anachronism.

It is simply a useful
element of ham radio that should be maintained.

Repeated NONSENSE. Some consider it "important" solely
because They were able to master it...and want to use that to
keep "their territory" as private as possible for "their own kind."

Some of the people against
using it as a filter are for keeping it as a part of the ham's required
knowledge.

Please post the URLs of the surveys to back up your claim. How
"many?" Is it a majority or is it just a vocal minority?

Are there any Stanford-Binet IQ scores included with those
surveys? After all, ONLY "intelligent people" will want to keep
the code! :-)

July 18th 04, 04:25 AM

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Sucks to be you, Putz.

Tsk. The Stalker put away is Amateur Corps Class A uniform and the
recruiting posters for the United States Amateur Corps ("A few good
men...")
and lapsed into his hate-filled snarliness mode.

I see a glimpse of humanity from Steve every few weeks. I like him
much better that way. I'll pray for him tonight.

I used to pray for him. Some time ago. Reason was I got this
faraway guffaw smothered by a divine hand, I think. It went something
like this: Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Well, Stalker IS a representative of top-of-the-line amateur radio
licensee.

Let's back away from that idea for a while. What? We've got maybe
four or five Extras on here who are congenital liars, spinmasters, or
just cranky old farts VS how many did Jim just post are in the ARS?

Whatever Rev. Jim's source, it is the only one "correct."

I prefer Hamdata.com tabulations, not the "interpreted kind." All
those sources have fast broadband access to the SAME data
files (enorrmous ones, BTW).

I see your point. I also see all the PCTAs who are arrogantly
adamant about Being So Right about their viewpoints.

All us newsgrope readers see the same text. Those mighty words
of the PCTA (and their ilk) appear on everyone's screen. They have
their Say and So Be It. They are the Great Gurus. De facto, not
de jure. What is anyone to believe about U.S. amateur radio if
their only source of information is from those same OFs?

I don't think Steve and the others on here are representative of
top-of-the-line amateurs at all.

No? :-)

I agree with you...knowing more radio amateurs off-line than on-
line. KD6JG is what I consider a good friend and I'm hoping to
say hello to him in mid-California a bit later. W6MJN was Best
Man at my wedding. That's just two out of many. shrug

As a matter of fact, I feel kind of sorry for Jim. I think he's hung in
here about a year too long. He should have bailed before his lost
his last remnant of dignity.

Jim was on the AOL ham pub before I saw him on r.r.a.p. Was
like a Newington-south recruitment drive on AOL to me. Came
off like an 80-year-old OF. QED. Couldn't take much
controversy then, can't now.

His
post about "Morse Code Exams are a disincentive to CW use" really told
the tale. Since then he's gone over to the dark side and can't find
his way back. He's truly committed.

All that "committment" gets to all. Amateur radio is NOT a
marriage and life ever after. The PCTA cannot change their minds
nor let anyone else change their minds. Not ever! :-)

"MARS IS amateur radio" is from an extreme case. :-)

All the PCTA love him. He be Tuff and Loud. Yell-Yell alla time.

I think they only support him because they think they'll all hang
separately if they don't hang together. I can't imagine them actually
coming forward to say they love him. Just another case of group-think.

Well, united they hang or they hang separately. Either way, the
hanging happens.

But, here's the thing with Yell-Yell: Everyone against him is
"really me under a pseudonym!" So, what you just wrote is what
I just wrote, since "we are the same person!" Hi hi hi hi.
Bang the conundrum slowly... :-)

So suprised when Jim first said Bruce might be brilliant (hi, hi),
then said he wasn't proper amateur material.

Broose is just a character...with or without a license. :-)

July 18th 04, 04:25 AM

In article ,
(William) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

More spectrum is simply the reward system in use. It was chosen in
large
part
because it's easy to enforce.

Not only was it easy to enforce but it was selected because it was a
desireable enough reward that people would put in the training to get
it.

Utter nonsense, Mama Dee. Spin-like rationalization.

That's a good description of what you post here, Len ;-) ;-) ;-)

Only to the PCTA.

Nope. To anyone who knows the facts.

Dee regurges so much pathertic ARRL-speak it just can't read her
anymore.

Careful, she'll spank you too... :-)

AMATEUR radio is a hobby, not a national service, not an arm of the
United States Navy or the rest of the military, and not a public
safety
organization. Just a hobby involving radio.

It's not "just a hobby".

For some it IS a lifestyle. Their problem, not the governments.

Why is it a "problem"?

The government doesn't view amateur radio as an alternative lifestyle.
There are no bill in Congress trying for a Constitutional Amendment.
Practicioners of amateur radio will just have to deal with it, that
is, if they view it as an alternative lifestyle.

So, amateur radio is NOT a hobby?

It's not *just* a hobby.

Would you tell volunteer firefighters and EMTs that what they do is "just a
hobby"?

Different things. And they get paid for each run. Only repeaters
owners get paid in amateur radio.

Rev. Jim MUST build up amateur radio as something more than
it is. Ergo, analogues with Public Safety Services, etc.

I don't know exactly why he does that, just that it is common
practice among so many amateur radio hobbyists to build up
their avocation into some noble cause.

Prove its vital need to the nation as a national service or an arm of
the military or a public safety organization.

Why? Is that the criteria for something to be more than "just a hobby"?

Part of Basis and Purpose justification for being.

Most of that is just Political Doublespeak. A radio service has a
need for existance in the eyes of Congress. Political doublespeak
with all its attendant puffery and noble-sounding words is a part
of that process. That happens in just about anything that is
legislated.

Weird thing about that political doublespeak is that some actually
believe each and every word!

The FCC hasn't proved that. Only the ham-lifestylers try to prove
that. They NEED the rationalization.

So what's your problem?

The problem is all the lifestylers that yak and yak, copy field day
messages prior to the start of field day, and paying lip service to
being a national asset, but couldn't NCS their way out of a wet paper
bag.

Those are the professional amateurs. :-)

But even if it were, what's the difference? If something is "just a
hobby",
does that mean there should be no standards, no training, no rules?

Tsk, tsk. Arguing to extemes again?

No. Just asking a question.

What should the standards be?

See Part 97, minus the Morse Code exam.

He can't see that well...despite assurances that he can. :-)

The FCC isn't chartered to do "training" for radio hams.

Actually, it is.

I've never been to an FCC training session. Would you mind mentoring
a junior amateur regarding the place, location, and times? Thanks in
advance.

The FCC actually does have some "training sessions!" Mostly
put on by the Office of Engineering and Technology.

The thing is that NONE of the "training sessions" involve amateur
radio. :-)

That's on their web page, by the way.

The FCC doesn't really "set standards," only sets regulations.

Wrong again!

How many parts per million?

That's not the point, Brian. Rev. Jim MUST call all opposite-to-
his-opinions as "wrong." :-)

Rev. Jim sets the standards. De facto, not de jure. Therefore,
all what he say is "right" and anything opposite is "wrong." :-)

AMATEUR radio long ago CEASED to be a "pool of experienced morse
operators" for any national need.

The description never included the word "Morse", Len.

Then why is Morse so prominent in your thinking?

He is a Morseman! They don't need to answer to Anybody! :-)

When did it cease, Len?

Long ago. :-)

When, exactly?

Long ago.

He wants the Exact day, the Exact time, etc., then, when you
supply it, he will say "THAT'S WRONG!" :-)

Find all the military morsemen "needs" you can. That be easy, as
there are no such needs.

Find all the commercial communications services you can, count
the "needs" for morsemen. Very few and those be on the Great
Lakes shipping.

What's your point, Len?

Do you agree that the nation needs a "Pool of trained radio operators"
which doesn't include Morse?

I doubt a direct answer to that question... :-)

And here's a fun fact: The Basis and Purpose never used the phrase
"experienced
morse operators". Just "experienced operators" - no mention of modes.

The nation does NOT need morse operators, haven't for a long time.

How long?

Long time. :-)

You don't know, then.

Not since the Coast Guard quit monitoring.

Well before that.

Most rewards in the real world have little relationship to the work
requested.

More spin crappola.

Well, at least you're honest about your content ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Tsk, tsk. Not nice.

No, you're not nice at all, Len. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

And you've gone over to the dark side. ;^)

That explains all the breathy sounds...he's wearing a breather
mask as well as a helmet!

Rather nasty comment for a portentious
revered one of the Great Gurus of the newsgrope.

Describing yourself, I see.

In kind.

lots of snit snipped

He posts a lot of "refined" snit. Arrogant snit, but REFINED. :-)

Has an odor of a refinery some times...

Just face the reality of the matter. Morsemen got their little CW
playground and should be happy.

What *are* you talking about, Len?

The LOWER parts of the HF bands.

You mean the parts where voice modes aren't allowed? Guess what - they're
all
wide open for data modes, too. What's the problem?

Reilly says band plans are actionable. Do you now disagree with
Reilly, too?

You sure have been disagreeable of late.

It might be the "disincentive thing about morse" that's getting to him.

Professional communicators they
ain't, even if they want, desperately, to be oh, so very pro.

If you're an example of "professional communicator", than I'm glad to be
an
amateur.

You are NOT a professional communicator.

Never claimed to be.

Just don't forget it. You're just a guy who refuses to accept that
professional communicators know something about all of radio.

Careful, Brian. He is another Exxtra! With a Southgate Type 7
and knows how to use it! :-)

You're neither are a professional communicator nor an amateur radio
operator,
Len. Just some guy who likes to flame amateur radio newsgroups.

Len is a professional. You just refuse to accept it. That makes you
wrong. That is all. And it won't be the first time.

Rev. Jim gets off on calling others "wrong."

If he ever met William Wong of Hewlett-Packard, he'd call him
"Wrong." :-)

You're on the outside looking in.

I'm on the inside, yet I see Len's point.

Brian, that's part of their Elitist "schtick." (Yiddishism used by
entertainment industry meaning "a part of the act")

PCTAs MUST keep the code test for the License Test. Morsemanship
is about all they have to show up the others in radio. [like the rest of
radio gives a damn about manual telegraphy]

PCTAs bought into the morse-code-is-king thing long ago and won't
let go of that Belief System until well after they pass on......

LHA / WMD

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