Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Len, just get the damm license.

Just for the purpose of settling a very few newsgrope irregulars
who are irritated by controversy? :-)

No, Len, to satisfy your several decades of self-declared interest in
amateur radio and to be able to hold your head up after your "Extra
right out of the box" boast.

I've had an interest in ALL radio for half a century.

Bully for you. Unfortunately, that isn't what you wrote here a numbe of
times.

Worked in lots of different radio services during that time.

What's any of that to amateur radio?

Guess that isn't the same as the oh-so-very-different amateur
radio. You must think amateur radio works by different physics
principles than all other radio?

No, I don't think that at all. The physics of radio is but a small part
of being a radio amateur.

Riiiiiight. Amateur radio is special, very different, not at all like
all other radio, much more superior, much more noble, glorious,
etc., etc., etc.

Don't just read about it, Len. Experience it first hand.

Too difficult for ordinary people.

Nope. Lots of quite ordinary folks obtain amateur radio licenses. If
you mean that you find it too difficult, just say so.

Amateur radio is so much MORE
than all other radio and no ordinary person can measure up to
your superiority and tenure in amateur radio. Nossir. Trying to be
as superior as yourself is a non-starter. Can't be done.

While it is true that time is against your catching up to me in tenure
in amateur radio, I've made no claims to being superior unless you'd
like to count the fact that I'm "in" and you're "out". That's your
problem.

If you want an HF amateur license, it is considered important. You
could always tackle a code free ticket though.

I don't have any interest on getting an HF AMATEUR license.

You've written conflicting posts on that matter.

I've been on HF, both in the military and commercial radio field.
I've been on HF without any amateur license earlier this year,
all very legal.

Am I supposed to care? How does your being on HF in another service
supposed to effect me?

I've never had to learn or use any manual telegraphy in 51 years of
actual communicating on HF.

Then again, you've never held an amateur radio license.

Right! Wow, Heil, you are sure so superior! Amazing.

But wait, there's more! You'd like us to believe that you know best how
amateur radio should be regulated! Isn't that a hoot?

Morse code skill is an anachronism.

Sure it is, Leonard. So is AM. So is SSB. So is baudot RTTY.

Morse code was first used in 1844. No "AM" then, no "SSB,"
no "baudot RTTY." :-)

Nonetheless, those other modes have been around for ages.

I haven't used "baudot RTTY" or even "Baudot TTY" in decades.
Old stuff.

Yeah. That's what I said.

It's been 8-level ASCII TTY coding for over three decades,
olde tymer. 100 WPM equivalent sustained throughput on those
old electromagnetic TTY machines...much faster with electronic
terminals.

Over three decades? Wow, there are hams who haven't been around for
three decades. Who'd want to use that antiquated stuff?

Morse code is 160 years old this year. Well before radio was
ever demonstrated as a communicaitons mediium. It was once
very useful but no longer. It's use is now relegated to helping
self-important, superior amateurs denigrate those who don't care
for slow, manual on-off keying anachronistic communication modes.

Morse is now used daily by many thousands of radio amateurs to
communicate. The denigration you feel is simple self-loathing.

Only amateurs use it with any
regularity and then those are only a few amateurs, a minority.

Only a few amateurs using morse? You're as wrong about that as you were
about Fessenden.

Okay, big superior one, give us the EXACT number of morse users
on the amateur ranks. USING morse regularly.

Sure, Len, just as soon as you provide me an accurate count of termites
in the big mound near the Banyan tree on Siaka Stevens St. in Freetown.

Yes, we all know that you are as good as a hundred or even a thousand
ordinary radio amateurs but that inflation is not allowed for the EXACT
number. Prove your work.

Hop to it on that termite project. If you get it right, you may be able
to get a job with Orkin.

I did it and I'm no good at sort of "motor skill" kind of thing.

Not a good reason for me to waste my time trying to re-enact
the past.

You have to get out more. Thousands and thousands of radio amateurs use
morse in the present.

...and many more than "thousands and thousands of radio amateurs"
are NOT using morse code. So?

So you're in neither group of radio amateurs.


As far as morseodism is concerned, I'm an atheist. I don't
worship at the Church of St. Hiram. Put away your collection
plate and Him books.

I get it. Because you don't find anything in which to believe, the rest
of us aren't supposed to take part for fear of offending you. How very
PC.

Separate church and state, Mother Superior.

"PC?" My Personal Computer works very well, thank you. No license
needed to use it, certainly no morse code skill needed with it. It can
reach around the world wherever there's an Internet connection without
any worry about HF propagation conditions.

Great! You've found your niche. Just you, a computer and some
telephone wires. Have at it!

Dave K8MN

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Len, just get the damm license.

Just for the purpose of settling a very few newsgrope irregulars
who are irritated by controversy? :-)

Then don't get one.

Not a good reason "for the service!" :-)

It ain't that hard.

I'm aware of that.

How would you know? You've never even tried.

So is anyone in the public who cares to look.

:-)

Hell even 5wpm.

So, learning a useless skill is considered "important?"

What skill are you talking about? Morse Code skill is very useful in
amateur radio, so you must be talking about something else.

I've never had to learn or use any manual telegraphy in 51 years of
actual communicating on HF.

You've never been a radio amateur.

Your statement is like that of a person who never learned to drive a
manual transmission vehicle.

Morse code skill is an anachronism.

No, it isn't. It's a very useful skill. That really seems to bother
you.

Only amateurs use it with any regularity

That's why it still needs to be tested for an amateur radio license

and then those are only a few amateurs, a minority.

How do you know? Have you actually listened to the HF ham bands?

I did it and I'm no good at sort of "motor skill" kind of thing.

Not a good reason for me to waste my time trying to re-enact
the past.

There are plenty of hams on the air today. You aren't one of them.
Many of them use Morse code. You aren't one of them either.

Then get on the air some.

Been there, done that, from LF on up to microwaves.

But not as a radio amateur.

Did it earlier this year using an SGC SG-2020 on HF. :-)
[also late last year, same rig...both times very legal!]

Somebody else's rig, somebody else's license. Second-hander.

Then you can speak with some creditability
here and other forums on ham radio.

Impossible! "Those without an amateur license have zero-point-
zero experience, don't know nuthin, etc., etc., etc., etc." :-)

Who said that?

Here's a plain, simple fact, Len: You don't know squat about Morse
Code. Sure, you can quote a lot of factoids but you don't know squat
about it in a practical sense.

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

Here's a plain, simple fact, Len: You don't know squat about Morse
Code. Sure, you can quote a lot of factoids but you don't know squat
about it in a practical sense.

I recall you discussing space exploration. Have you ever been in space?

What if Len's factoids are true?

Are they any less true if it is Len quoting them?

In article ,
(William) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...

Here's a plain, simple fact, Len: You don't know squat about Morse
Code. Sure, you can quote a lot of factoids but you don't know squat
about it in a practical sense.

I recall you discussing space exploration. Have you ever been in space?

Here's a plain, simple fact, Brian. Jimmie has never said anything
about working IN the space biz. He's never laid a hand on an SSME
or gotten his (gloved) hands inside a space package.

Here's another plain, simple fact: Jimmie loves being a guru in all
kinds of areas besides olde tyme hamme raddio yet his
"qualifications" in those areas weren't covered in the olde tyme
ham test. Anyone who doesn't like his OPINIONS are treated as
lesser beings, "always in error," and given a denigration treatment
as if they were unqualified for anything.

What if Len's factoids are true?

Here's another plain, simple fact, unavoidable: Every other radio
service but amateur either never considered morse code in the first
place or dropped its use for communications.

More "plain, simple facts" (gotta love that headmasterish tone!)

Way back before most of the folks in here existed I learned morse
to maybe about 8 WPM. The minimum rate was then 13 WPM. I
didn't keep up with it due to other activities (being a normal human
being of adolescent years), and it rather evaporated. By the time
I was in military communications, I saw what the Big People did on
HF and all thought of morsemanship went out the window. Never
had to use it after that and didn't bother to.

Are they any less true if it is Len quoting them?

Absolutely! :-)

It's the olde Exxtra Double Standard. They state opinions as "fact"
and everyone against those are "in error," "incorrect," "don't have the
'true facts'" or other bull**** arrogance. Getting tiresome with those
few irregulars. They need bran and fiber...and a few still need mental
therapy and counseling. shrug

Here's a plain, simple, accurate, factual signatu

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article ,
(William) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
e.com...

Here's a plain, simple fact, Len: You don't know squat about Morse
Code. Sure, you can quote a lot of factoids but you don't know squat
about it in a practical sense.

I recall you discussing space exploration. Have you ever been in space?

Here's a plain, simple fact, Brian. Jimmie has never said anything
about working IN the space biz. He's never laid a hand on an SSME
or gotten his (gloved) hands inside a space package.

Who is "Jimmie"? How do you what that person has or has not done?

Does someone have to have "been in the space biz" in order to discuss space
exploration? Why?

Have *you* ever "been in space"?

And here's a fact for you: Anyone who pays US federal taxes funds the US space
program. And the US defense program. So *all* taxpayers have a right to talk
about those programs.

But nobody's taxes fund Amateur Radio programs. That's paid for by amateurs
themselves.

Here's another plain, simple fact: Jimmie loves being a guru in all
kinds of areas besides olde tyme hamme raddio yet his
"qualifications" in those areas weren't covered in the olde tyme
ham test.

You've never been a radio amateur, yet you claim to know all about what the
amateur radio rules should be. You've never had an amateur radio station but
you act like a guru of all things radio amateurs do, even passing judgement on
what skills are useful and which are useless. You've never talked about working
for the US State Department nor the US Coast Guard, yet your full of criticism
for those who have done radio communications for them.

You've never been a mental health care professional but you sure are quick to
diagnose other people's alleged "problems".

Anyone who doesn't like his OPINIONS are treated as
lesser beings, "always in error," and given a denigration treatment
as if they were unqualified for anything.

Well, you can't be talking about me.

You are doing a pretty good job of describing Len Anderson, though. Such as the
way you reacted to a US Coast Guard radio operator's description of his
experiences in your classic "sphincter" post. Or your behavior when confronted
with a different opinion.

What really tells the tale is how you act when one of your claimed facts is
proved to be incorrect.

What if Len's factoids are true?

Here's another plain, simple fact, unavoidable: Every other radio
service but amateur either never considered morse code in the first
place or dropped its use for communications.

That's pretty much true. So what? You've repeated that point many many times,
but never explained what significance it has to amateur radio regulations.

Tell us *why* that fact makes any difference to amateur radio. Tell us *why*
amateurs should copy what other radio services are doing.

And also note that other radio services *did* use Morse Code extensively in
their communications - and a lot more recently than the 1930s.

More "plain, simple facts" (gotta love that headmasterish tone!)

You sure seem to. You talk down to everyone...;-)

Way back before most of the folks in here existed I learned morse
to maybe about 8 WPM.

Really? Got any proof?

The minimum rate was then 13 WPM.

So it must have been before 1951. Why are you living in the past?

I
didn't keep up with it due to other activities (being a normal human
being of adolescent years),

Gee, Len, a lot of us managed to do other activities and were "normal human
being(s) of adolescent years". And yet we were also hams using and learning
Morse Code.

You seem to think that "a normal human being of adolescent years" couldn't do
that. ;-)

Perhaps that's why you advocate a 14 year age requirement for an amateur radio
license......

and it rather evaporated.

Maybe it never existed!

In either case, you don't know squat about Morse code *now*.

By the time
I was in military communications, I saw what the Big People did on
HF and all thought of morsemanship went out the window.

"Big People"? Who are they? Heck, I'm probably bigger than you ;-)

Also probably stronger, smarter, faster, younger, better looking....;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-)

I guess the Navy, the Coast Guard, the State Department and the maritime radio
services of the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s don't count as "Big
People" to you. Nor the other radio services using Morse Code.

And of course we radio amateurs must all be leprechauns...;-) Tell yer buddy
Vipul about that - he says we hams are "Big People".

Never had to use it after that and didn't bother to.

Like the person who drove only automatic-transmission cars since 1952. Or the
person who never learned to cook and simply ate at restaurants or heated up
prepackaged meals.

Are they any less true if it is Len quoting them?

Absolutely! :-)

It's the olde Exxtra Double Standard. They state opinions as "fact"
and everyone against those are "in error," "incorrect," "don't have the
'true facts'" or other bull**** arrogance.

ooooooooooohhh! Len's getting angry! Poor baby! ;-) ;-)

(actually, he's describing himself and projecting that behavior on other
unnamed people.

Getting tiresome with those
few irregulars. They need bran and fiber...and a few still need mental
therapy and counseling. shrug

You're the most "regular" person here, Len. All anyone has to do is look at
your "output"...;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...

Here's a plain, simple fact, Len: You don't know squat about Morse
Code. Sure, you can quote a lot of factoids but you don't know squat
about it in a practical sense.

I recall you discussing space exploration. Have you ever been in space?

Here's a plain, simple fact, Brian. Jimmie has never said anything
about working IN the space biz. He's never laid a hand on an SSME
or gotten his (gloved) hands inside a space package.

Here's another plain, simple fact: Jimmie loves being a guru in all
kinds of areas besides olde tyme hamme raddio yet his
"qualifications" in those areas weren't covered in the olde tyme
ham test. Anyone who doesn't like his OPINIONS are treated as
lesser beings, "always in error," and given a denigration treatment
as if they were unqualified for anything.

What if Len's factoids are true?

Here's another plain, simple fact, unavoidable: Every other radio
service but amateur either never considered morse code in the first
place or dropped its use for communications.

More "plain, simple facts" (gotta love that headmasterish tone!)

Way back before most of the folks in here existed I learned morse
to maybe about 8 WPM. The minimum rate was then 13 WPM. I
didn't keep up with it due to other activities (being a normal human
being of adolescent years), and it rather evaporated. By the time
I was in military communications, I saw what the Big People did on
HF and all thought of morsemanship went out the window. Never
had to use it after that and didn't bother to.

Are they any less true if it is Len quoting them?

Absolutely! :-)

It's the olde Exxtra Double Standard. They state opinions as "fact"
and everyone against those are "in error," "incorrect," "don't have the
'true facts'" or other bull**** arrogance. Getting tiresome with those
few irregulars. They need bran and fiber...and a few still need mental
therapy and counseling. shrug

Here's a plain, simple, accurate, factual signatu



I'd bet most hams don't use CW on a regular basis.

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM
From: (William)
Date: 7/29/2004 4:00 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

"Sorry Hans, 1960's IS 1970's!" Hi, hi.

You really are sinking fast, Brain.

Steve, K4YZ