N2EY wrote:

Perhaps the vanity call system stopped the simultaneous renewals.

It's that expensive, state-of-the-art data system they installed!

Reminds me of the time clocks where I work...Used to be that you
took a card, slid it into the clock, it "puched" your card, and you got
got paid for teh time you worked.

Now we have the KRONOS system (Reminds me of the science fiction
movie of the same name...stops across everything) If you "punch in"
one minute before your "block", they have to pay you for the previous
15 minute block. If you punch out one minute AFTER your "block", they
ahve to pay you for the next 15 minute increment.

Of course what's happening is that we have a cluster around the
clock. And people are in such a panic at the end of the shift that
stuff "get's done" just to get to the clock "on time".

Technology doesn't always solve problems (ie: record keeping for
the FCC) It more often than not creates more than it solves.
73

Steve, K4YZ

In article .com, "K4YZ"
writes:

N2EY wrote:

Perhaps the vanity call system stopped the simultaneous renewals.

It's that expensive, state-of-the-art data system they installed!

How do you know this, Steve?

If a ham happens to move right at the time of renewal, the system can handle
it.
So that's not the problem.

My speculation on vanity calls is based on the fact that a new vanity call
issuance generates a renewal. That way, the fee doesn't have to be pro-rated.

But I don't know why nonvanities couldn't be renewed when a ham moves or
upgrades. That would reduce FCC paperwork.

--

One effect of the old system was that it tended to make the number of amateurs
appear larger than it really was.

73 de Jim, N2EY

K4YZ wrote:
N2EY wrote:


Perhaps the vanity call system stopped the simultaneous renewals.


It's that expensive, state-of-the-art data system they installed!

Reminds me of the time clocks where I work...Used to be that you
took a card, slid it into the clock, it "puched" your card, and you got
got paid for teh time you worked.

Now we have the KRONOS system (Reminds me of the science fiction
movie of the same name...stops across everything) If you "punch in"
one minute before your "block", they have to pay you for the previous
15 minute block. If you punch out one minute AFTER your "block", they
ahve to pay you for the next 15 minute increment.

Of course what's happening is that we have a cluster around the
clock. And people are in such a panic at the end of the shift that
stuff "get's done" just to get to the clock "on time".


Yoiks! Have they noticed the loss of productivity?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote:

So it appears that, in *some* cases (where a renewal application
was
previously filed), a ham with an expired license may be able to
operate
legally in the grace period.
But definitely not in all cases.

I would disagree somewhat.

An application for renewal of a license means that the license is
not
expired as long as it is sent in on time.

Well, that's one way to look at it.

Assuming that there is no reason for not granting a renewed license,
it
will be granted, I hope I'm correct.

That's correct in more than 99% of cases in the ARS.

If you send your IRS forms in by April 15th, it is considered
sending
them in on time, even though the IRS has not received them. Send it
in
on April 16th, and you could have a problem. It is late.

But does anyone *really* get gigged by IRS for being a day or two late?
Most folks won't take the chance to find out.

Seems a pretty simple thing to me. Send in your renewal by the
expiry
date of your license, and your license continues.

Sure - *if* the FCC gets it before then. And if it's correct - if you
forgot to fill out certain blocks, they might reject it.

Send it in the day after the license expires, and the license
remains
expired until they re-issue it.

Yep.

Or do the modern thing and renew online. Takes a few minutes and you
*know* they got it, because your renewal shows up in the database.
73 de Jim, N2EY

On 13 Jan 2005 03:50:34 -0800, K4YZ wrote:

Of course what's happening is that we have a cluster around the
clock. And people are in such a panic at the end of the shift that
stuff "get's done" just to get to the clock "on time".

When I worked for the now-departed-but-not-missed Douglas Aircraft
Company, the hourly employees lined up at the clock some 10 minutes
before the end of the shift (union-negotiated "wash-up time"), and
no one punched out before the shift-end time. We engineers did not
have to punch the clock, but we had to fill out a "daily time sheet"
which served the same function.

At other employers, the custom developed of filling out the sheets a
whole day (or for some of us, week) at a time because we knew what
"they" wanted our time to be charged to.....

America, America....

Technology doesn't always solve problems (ie: record keeping for
the FCC) It more often than not creates more than it solves.

Especially when the prigramming for the system which has to run it
is contracted out to the "private sector" rather than done in-house
by folks who know what the goal is and have to live with the results
themselves.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Until the F.C.C. can receive and grant renewals immediately from all

Hams, there will have to be such a rule. Otherwise they would have
to
determine some time lag, say a week, and then tell you you have to
calculate the number of days in ten years minus 1 week. Remember it
will
be different for many hams, because it depends on how many leap
years
there have been since you got your ticket, and whether you got your
ticket before the leap day if you got the ticket during a leap year.

Remember too that there's a 90 day limit in the other direction - if
you send
in a renewal too early (more than 90 days before expiration) they
send it back.

Do you know of a single instance of this happening?

I'm not sure why that 90-day rule exists. For many years you could
get
a simultaneous renewal whenever you modified. I was a ham for a long
time
before I ever actually "renewed" because every upgrade and address
change
resulted in a renewed license too.

They're trying to get us to read the directions.

We say we're trainable. They're just checking.

Perhaps the vanity call system stopped the simultaneous renewals.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I think it was the sequential call system that stopped the simultaneous
renewals. ;))

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Until the F.C.C. can receive and grant renewals immediately from all
Hams, there will have to be such a rule. Otherwise they would have to
determine some time lag, say a week, and then tell you you have to
calculate the number of days in ten years minus 1 week. Remember it will
be different for many hams, because it depends on how many leap years
there have been since you got your ticket, and whether you got your
ticket before the leap day if you got the ticket during a leap year.


Remember too that there's a 90 day limit in the other direction - if you send
in a renewal too early (more than 90 days before expiration) they send it back.


I'm not sure why that 90-day rule exists. For many years you could get
a simultaneous renewal whenever you modified. I was a ham for a long time
before I ever actually "renewed" because every upgrade and address change
resulted in a renewed license too.

Perhaps the vanity call system stopped the simultaneous renewals.

Perhaps. What I would *really like* would be the ability to renew my
license for say thirty years. That way I wouldn't have to worry about
forgetting about it.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:

What I would *really like* would be the ability to renew my
license for say thirty years. That way I wouldn't have to worry about

forgetting about it.

Interesting concept - renew for your expected lifetime?

IIRC, Japanese amateur radio operator licenses never expire, and
Canadian amateur licenses expire when the licensee is 125 years old. Or
something like that. In any event, their license terms are so long that
they outlive the licensee. One problem with doing that sort of thing
here is being able to reissue callsigns.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On 14 Jan 2005 06:15:16 -0800, wrote:

IIRC, Japanese amateur radio operator licenses never expire, and
Canadian amateur licenses expire when the licensee is 125 years old. Or
something like that. In any event, their license terms are so long that
they outlive the licensee. One problem with doing that sort of thing
here is being able to reissue callsigns.

What many Administrations do is to issue as lifetime operator
license and a station license renewable by paying a fee and
getting a validation sticker just like an auto license plate.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

Phil Kane wrote:
On 14 Jan 2005 06:15:16 -0800, wrote:

IIRC, Japanese amateur radio operator licenses never expire, and
Canadian amateur licenses expire when the licensee is 125 years old.
Or
something like that. In any event, their license terms are so long
that
they outlive the licensee. One problem with doing that sort of thing
here is being able to reissue callsigns.

What many Administrations do is to issue as lifetime operator
license and a station license renewable by paying a fee and
getting a validation sticker just like an auto license plate.

The problem with that scheme is that you still have to remember to
renew the thing, and it still takes admin work.

In Japan, the station license needs to be renewed annually and costs
120 yen, last time I looked. There's an enormous difference between the
number of JA operator and station licenses as a result.
73 de Jim, N2EY