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On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:25:40 -0500, Mike Coslo wrote:
RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full legal limit. "Here lies ol' John McStencil He drew arcs from his finals with a lead pencil" (More-or-less recalled caption from a QST "Switch to Safety" cartoon of 50+ years ago) -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
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wrote in news:1108746634.174440.129880
@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: Alun L. Palmer wrote: wrote in news:1108637750.922635.205620 @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: Alun L. Palmer wrote: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in : wrote in news:1108578593.250795.201100 @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Alun L. Palmer wrote: Yes, South Africa has abolished the code test! One more domino has fallen. How many countries does that make now, compared to those who still have it? It's getting a little difficult to keep track. However, I think at least the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Papua Niugini, Hong Kong and South Africa have abolished the code test so far. I think that of these only Austria and the Netherlands even retain an entry level licence that doesn't give HF privileges. That's only 17 countries, but I expect I may have missed some out. I make the combined ham population of the above something over 260,000 (possibly more than half of them no-coders), so probably a little less than half the number of hams in the US. 260,000/670,000 = about 38.9% Quite a bit less than half. However, there are well over 50,000 hams in Canada, which is also likely to abolish the code test very soon. Yep. But there are two big points about Canada: 1) The proposal would increase the written test level This is a biggie. Simply proposing to drop the code test is *not* the same thing as proposing to drop the code test *and* beef up the writtens. IIRC, one of the things proposed in Canada was to make the code test optional in that if you passed code you didn't need as high a grade on theory to get the license. They proposed that in South Africa too, but they didn't do it, and I don't think they will in Canada either, judging solely from having read all the public comments If the nocodetest folks in the USA proposed options like those they might get a lot more support. But instead, we have folks like NCVEC telling us we must drop code *and* reduce the written still more. 2) Commentary to the Canadian proposal showed a clear majority favored the change. That's not the case in the USA, in any survey done to date, nor in the commentary to FCC. Another biggie. Don't forget that Japan, with a ham population of 1.2 Million (twice that of the US, out of maybe a fifth of your general population), has long had a no-code HF licence, albeit limited to 10 Watts. Check your numbers! Japan has over 3.1 million operator licenses - but they cost nothing and never expire, so that number is really the number of ham operator licenses issued since 1955, not the number of present-day hams. Japanese *station* licenses are a bit over 600,000 now, and have been dropping for a decade. The number of new JA licenses has also been dropping. See the AH0A website. I'm not sure how many Japanese hams have a no-code HF licence, Well over 95%. but they may even rival all the new ones so far put together, although the new guys can use more than 10 Watts! It's probably only a matter of time before Japan lets all of their hams use HF anyway. All Japanese hams have HF privileges *today*. Been that way for decades. But for all classes of ham license except 4th class, JA hams have a code test. And there's no move to change that yet. And for ten years JA ham license numbers have been dropping fast. *With* nocodetest HF. Even without the low power Japanese stations, the number of no-coders who have full HF privileges right now is probably about the same as the number of no-code Techs in the US. Close enough. And if there are already that number of no-code hams on HF without any incident, what is the problem with abolishing the code test here? The USA isn't Japan. Different society, different culture, different rules. Same aether (OK, I don't really beleive in an aether, but you know what I mean) It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam looks like. And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new operator licenses is way down. That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia! OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams and the number of countries. The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test because a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself. Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the code test. The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual ownership of firearms, too. Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have dropped code testing? No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it *hasn't* brought in lots of new folks. 73 de Jim, N2EY Perfectly true, but I see getting these people onto HF as a good thing |
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Alun L. Palmer wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in : some snippage I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets say in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman not knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when trying to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what if she simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent design of the cup?) So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and is half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits already! I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful burn and a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if we don't train them well. RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full legal limit. And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some other weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety requirements. Anything else is criminally negligent. It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam looks like. And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new operator licenses is way down. That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia! OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams and the number of countries. The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test because a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself. Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the code test. The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual ownership of firearms, too. Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have dropped code testing? No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it *hasn't* brought in lots of new folks. Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make it out to be. - Mike KB3EIA - Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. People who have not passed the test have been kept out of things they want to do in the hobby too. Not that I'm saying that the Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Yup, Like me. But I apparently showed the character flaw od learning Morse code! ;^) As a guy who can't "hear" people unless he can see the mouth of the person speaking, I have just a little trouble figuring out the problem with normal people for which the test is too hard to make it worth getting a license. But it is! Witness all those who are dropping off the ranks when their license expires. I predict the next tack of the NCI's is that not allowing the codeless Techs HF access is why they aren't renewing their license. Herding them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but still a problem. "Herding" is a strange name for allowing access to almost all the Amateur spectrum. - Mike KB3EIA - |
"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message .. . Mike Coslo wrote in : [big, big snip. Do you have to quote EVERYTHING??] Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. Not that I'm saying that the Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Herding them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but still a problem. No one can do everything they want to, not even the Extras. We must comply with the mode regulations, special power limits in the old novice subbands, and we should comply with the band plans. There is no "herding" involved. The "gate" wide open. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Mike Coslo wrote in
: Alun L. Palmer wrote: Mike Coslo wrote in : some snippage I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets say in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman not knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when trying to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what if she simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent design of the cup?) So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and is half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits already! I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful burn and a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if we don't train them well. RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full legal limit. And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some other weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety requirements. Anything else is criminally negligent. It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam looks like. And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new operator licenses is way down. That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia! OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams and the number of countries. The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test because a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself. Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the code test. The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual ownership of firearms, too. Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have dropped code testing? No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it *hasn't* brought in lots of new folks. Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make it out to be. - Mike KB3EIA - Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. People who have not passed the test have been kept out of things they want to do in the hobby too. Not that I'm saying that the Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Yup, Like me. But I apparently showed the character flaw od learning Morse code! ;^) So did I, but it was hell! If it wasn't a hazing process, then I'm a Dutchman As a guy who can't "hear" people unless he can see the mouth of the person speaking, I have just a little trouble figuring out the problem with normal people for which the test is too hard to make it worth getting a license. But it is! Witness all those who are dropping off the ranks when their license expires. I predict the next tack of the NCI's is that not allowing the codeless Techs HF access is why they aren't renewing their license. Certainly that must be true of some of them. What proportion, I couldn't say. Herding them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but still a problem. "Herding" is a strange name for allowing access to almost all the Amateur spectrum. - Mike KB3EIA - You mean the part that doesn't refract from the ionosphere, right? 73 de Alun, N3KIP |
"Dee Flint" wrote in
: "Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message .. . Mike Coslo wrote in : [big, big snip. Do you have to quote EVERYTHING??] Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. Not that I'm saying that the Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Herding them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but still a problem. No one can do everything they want to, not even the Extras. We must comply with the mode regulations, special power limits in the old novice subbands, and we should comply with the band plans. Certainly, but that doesn't stop us from advocating that those rules be changed. A rule that those who can't read on/off keying by ear can't refract their signals from the ionosphere is lacking in logic of any kind. There is no "herding" involved. The "gate" wide open. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE No. The gate is shut and only those who can jump over it can get in, but jumping is purely optional once they get in. (More weird metaphors, although I suppose I started this one). |
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