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#31
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![]() K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. They are at a loss when brave men stand their ground and question their faulty logic... reduces 'em to personal attacks and gutter fighting quickly... You've just described Steven J. Robeson. And yet another lie...from a "guy" who finds it easy to lie. How can a highly accurate assessment of your behavio[u]r be a lie? Putz Jr. Steve, K4YZ And there's the "Robber's Son" trademark male genitalia fixation, again. |
#32
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![]() "bb" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. I honestly wanted to know why, in a VHF/UHF contest, I wasn't contacting more Techs since they are "trapped above 30MHz by the code test" as some would have us believe. When Technicians are nearly half of all licensed hams, why were they only about 5% of my contacts? Extra's are only about 16% of the total and yet they were about 90% of the contacts. Those who maintain that the Techs are "trapped" are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by convincing the Techs that they are not capable of passing code. In the long term, that is an approach that harms amateur radio. Even if the code test is someday eliminated, it is wrong to gain support for it by convincing people that they are not capable of passing it. This can and will prevent people from attempting to pursue learning this aspect of ham radio. Every ham at every level should be encouraged to believe in their ABILITY to master any and all of the elements even if the element is not a required one. Whether they choose to pursue it is a different issue but we should encourage them to believe in themselves and not tear down their self esteem. Yet we have some people maintaining that the code should be dropped because some people "can't learn it and are trapped above 30MHz." By maintaining this attitude they are the ones putting down the Techs and showing their prejudices. They would trample on other's self esteem to obtain their objectives. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
#33
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![]() Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. But looikg ahead I ask why you seem to expect that Tech are interested in the same things (contesting) as you are. I honestly wanted to know why, in a VHF/UHF contest, I wasn't contacting more Techs since they are "trapped above 30MHz by the code test" as some would have us believe. When Technicians are nearly half of all licensed hams, why were they only about 5% of my contacts? Extra's are only about 16% of the total and yet they were about 90% of the contacts. That the numbers will be lobesided is obvious Tech as a class less experncedoperators and likely to have less time in etc. therefore they are likely to have stations less well equiped. I will now add some coment of MY thoughts and experences Frankly contest opperating has little appleal to me, I do Field Day fairly often which kida exhausts my level of interest in contesting Further I rarely hear of VHFor UHF contest till about a week after they happen Those who maintain that the Techs are "trapped" are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by convincing the Techs that they are not capable Now where is this from? Not capple? well I am not (5 years of trying for a Novice license in the 70's basicaly convinced me, maybe if I beged for enough accomdation I could manage a receieve only test by why should I?) But No one is arguing that Tech can't learn code, some do and some will even after the code test is history, It is a burden that isn't waranted by the value of Morse Code of passing code. In the long term, that is an approach that harms amateur radio. Even if the code test is someday eliminated, it is wrong to gain support for it by convincing people that they are not capable of passing it. Red herring This can and will prevent people from attempting to pursue learning this aspect of ham radio. Personally I hope so as I believe it is a mode that should be laid to rest Every ham at every level should be encouraged to believe in their ABILITY to Why? and what is your point, since noone but you is saying that techs can't master any and all of the elements even if the element is not a required one. Whether they choose to pursue it is a different issue but we should encourage them to believe in themselves and not tear down their self esteem. Yet we have some people maintaining that the code should be dropped because some people "can't learn it and are trapped above 30MHz." By maintaining And some folks are 5 years taking a test a every week or two and practiceing half and per day 5 days a week (study hall) did not mange it isn't likely any levl of effort would achieve results today this attitude they are the ones putting down the Techs and showing their prejudices. They would trample on other's self esteem to obtain their objectives. Frankly doesn't look like you are reading closely Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
#34
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![]() bb wrote: K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. What "gut"..?!?! You continue to inist that there's a "gut" yet in doing so you only substantiate my claim that Brian P Burke is a chronic liar. Do you lie like this to your wife? Your kids? Your employer? Your Scouts? As for the Techs issue, it must be a North Of The Mason-Dixon thing because I continue to "work" NCT's on a daily basis. They are at a loss when brave men stand their ground and question their faulty logic... reduces 'em to personal attacks and gutter fighting quickly... You've just described Steven J. Robeson. And yet another lie...from a "guy" who finds it easy to lie. How can a highly accurate assessment of your behavio[u]r be a lie? Becasue it's not accurate. Putz Jr. Steve, K4YZ And there's the "Robber's Son" trademark male genitalia fixation, again. Again another lie. And they keep stacking up... Steve, K4YZ |
#35
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![]() "an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. But looikg ahead I ask why you seem to expect that Tech are interested in the same things (contesting) as you are. I expect some percentage will be not all. Just as there is only a small percentage of Generals, Advanced, and Extras who are interested in contesting. However one would expect the largest group of licensees to be the largest group represented in the frequency bands where that group has full privileges. I honestly wanted to know why, in a VHF/UHF contest, I wasn't contacting more Techs since they are "trapped above 30MHz by the code test" as some would have us believe. When Technicians are nearly half of all licensed hams, why were they only about 5% of my contacts? Extra's are only about 16% of the total and yet they were about 90% of the contacts. That the numbers will be lobesided is obvious Tech as a class less experncedoperators and likely to have less time in etc. therefore they are likely to have stations less well equiped. But according to some, they have been "trapped" for years and have had plenty of time to gain experience and equipment. I will now add some coment of MY thoughts and experences Frankly contest opperating has little appleal to me, I do Field Day fairly often which kida exhausts my level of interest in contesting No problem. It's not for everyone. Further I rarely hear of VHFor UHF contest till about a week after they happen That's simply because you are not interested in contests. Again not a problem. For those who are interested, they are published well in advance on various websites. Those who maintain that the Techs are "trapped" are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by convincing the Techs that they are not capable Now where is this from? Not capple? well I am not (5 years of trying for a Novice license in the 70's basicaly convinced me, maybe if I beged for enough accomdation I could manage a receieve only test by why should I?) That basically proves my subsequent arguments that you have been incorrectly convinced you are not capable. It is dependent on the training approach. Way too many people have been subjected to incorrect training methods and/or poor teachers. But No one is arguing that Tech can't learn code, some do and some will even after the code test is history, It is a burden that isn't waranted by the value of Morse Code That's a matter of opinion only. However if the majority of hams EXPERIENCED in the mode were to support dropping it, I would accept that. It is only objectionable when the inexperienced try to rationalize why it should be dropped. of passing code. In the long term, that is an approach that harms amateur radio. Even if the code test is someday eliminated, it is wrong to gain support for it by convincing people that they are not capable of passing it. Red herring Not hardly. It is always harmful to convince people that they are incapable. This can and will prevent people from attempting to pursue learning this aspect of ham radio. Personally I hope so as I believe it is a mode that should be laid to rest What harm to you is there is those who like it continue to operate it? This is very much a "sour grapes" type of thinking. Every ham at every level should be encouraged to believe in their ABILITY to Why? and what is your point, since noone but you is saying that techs can't I have always said that they can learn it. Just check the archives. It has not been me saying they aren't capable. We should encourage people to believe in themselves so that they can be the best they can be regardless of whether it is ham radio or something else. master any and all of the elements even if the element is not a required one. Whether they choose to pursue it is a different issue but we should encourage them to believe in themselves and not tear down their self esteem. Yet we have some people maintaining that the code should be dropped because some people "can't learn it and are trapped above 30MHz." By maintaining And some folks are 5 years taking a test a every week or two and practiceing half and per day 5 days a week (study hall) did not mange it isn't likely any levl of effort would achieve results today Wrong training method and/or bad teacher. It is as simple as that. Correct training methods and a proper teacher do produce results. this attitude they are the ones putting down the Techs and showing their prejudices. They would trample on other's self esteem to obtain their objectives. Frankly doesn't look like you are reading closely I'm reading very closely. It is those who advocate the removal of the test who promulgate the concept that some people "can't" learn code. If they would just be honest and say they don't want to learn the code, I'd respect that but not agree with dropping it. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
#36
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Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line with other people's prejudices. I honestly wanted to know why, in a VHF/UHF contest, I wasn't contacting more Techs since they are "trapped above 30MHz by the code test" as some would have us believe. When Technicians are nearly half of all licensed hams, why were they only about 5% of my contacts? Extra's are only about 16% of the total and yet they were about 90% of the contacts. Most Technicians are doing exactly what they want. Some are satisfied with getting on the local repeater, some are helping with public service and event support, which again is either 2m simplex or repeater work. Those who want to upgrade, do upgrade. Those who maintain that the Techs are "trapped" are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by convincing the Techs that they are not capable of passing code. Frankly I doubt too many Techs are convinced by that sort of argument. The only people (with one exception) who are trapped are those who for some reason allow themselves to be. The exception is those very, very few who for some reason are truly incapable. BUt that number is vanishingly small. Every ham at every level should be encouraged to believe in their ABILITY to master any and all of the elements even if the element is not a required one. Whether they choose to pursue it is a different issue but we should encourage them to believe in themselves and not tear down their self esteem. Yet we have some people maintaining that the code should be dropped because some people "can't learn it and are trapped above 30MHz." By maintaining this attitude they are the ones putting down the Techs and showing their prejudices. Some people cannot pass the written tests either. Does not being able to pass the General test also trap you above 30 MHz? Not passing the Extra trap you out of the Extra segments? Does not being able to pass the Technician test trap you out of Amateur radio? If I don't want to learn the satellite operation questions, is that an unfair thing, and should those questions be removed so I don't have to learn the answers to those questions? Those who would have the Technicians be the "oppressed victims" do hate those questions. They would trample on other's self esteem to obtain their objectives. Correct! If a person hates Morse code, that is fine. It's a free country. But The concept of people being "trapped" above 30 MHz is a sympathy ploy that has no relation to the reality of people wanting more priveliges, and doing what is needed to get them. I had some people telling me to wait to get my General, because the Morse code requirement is going away "any day now". That was in 1999. Just about 6 years ago. I guess it was a good thing I didn't listen to them! 8^) But that is the tale I give the new guys who are interested in upgrading. Don't wait. Learn what you need to learn. If the requirement goes away, all you will have lost is the time spent learning Morse, and you will have traded that time for some skill and knowledge. Then I ask if 6 years of not being on HF is worth *not* learning Morse code. - Mike KB3EIA - |
#37
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![]() K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. What "gut"..?!?! You continue to inist that there's a "gut" yet in doing so you only substantiate my claim that Brian P Burke is a chronic liar. break Do you lie like this to your wife? Your kids? Your employer? Your Scouts? Your stopped beating your wife and kids? As for the Techs issue, it must be a North Of The Mason-Dixon thing because I continue to "work" NCT's on a daily basis. Yeah I bet you work em, work em over if they don't mind what you see as there place They are at a loss when brave men stand their ground and question their faulty logic... reduces 'em to personal attacks and gutter fighting quickly... You've just described Steven J. Robeson. And yet another lie...from a "guy" who finds it easy to lie. How can a highly accurate assessment of your behavio[u]r be a lie? Becasue it's not accurate. Putz Jr. And there's the "Robber's Son" trademark male genitalia fixation, again. right above is another examaple' Steve, K4YZ And there's the "Robber's Son" trademark male genitalia fixation, again. Again another lie. Nope And they keep stacking up... Steve, K4YZ |
#38
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![]() Michael Coslo wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line with other people's prejudices. I honestly wanted to know why, in a VHF/UHF contest, I wasn't contacting more Techs since they are "trapped above 30MHz by the code test" as some would have us believe. When Technicians are nearly half of all licensed hams, why were they only about 5% of my contacts? Extra's are only about 16% of the total and yet they were about 90% of the contacts. Most Technicians are doing exactly what they want. Some are satisfied with getting on the local repeater, some are helping with public service and event support, which again is either 2m simplex or repeater work. Those who want to upgrade, do upgrade. Those who maintain that the Techs are "trapped" are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by convincing the Techs that they are not capable of passing code. Frankly I doubt too many Techs are convinced by that sort of argument. The only people (with one exception) who are trapped are those who for some reason allow themselves to be. The exception is those very, very few who for some reason are truly incapable. BUt that number is vanishingly small. Every ham at every level should be encouraged to believe in their ABILITY to master any and all of the elements even if the element is not a required one. Whether they choose to pursue it is a different issue but we should encourage them to believe in themselves and not tear down their self esteem. Yet we have some people maintaining that the code should be dropped because some people "can't learn it and are trapped above 30MHz." By maintaining this attitude they are the ones putting down the Techs and showing their prejudices. Some people cannot pass the written tests either. Does not being able to pass the General test also trap you above 30 MHz? Not passing the Extra trap you out of the Extra segments? Does not being able to pass the Technician test trap you out of Amateur radio? If I don't want to learn the satellite operation questions, is that an unfair thing, and should those questions be removed so I don't have to learn the answers to those questions? But your analogy is false if you don't wish to learn about satelite operation then don't it will not keep you from passing the test. Perfect score is NOT required in order to pass I don't claim to have plotted it but I beleive you even choose not to learn the rules of the ARS and still pass the test. ( not that I would recmend such a course) Futher No one has suggested removing from the question pools all content regarding Morse Encoded CW, but the current state of affairs make Morse encoded CW more important than all of the rest of Ham radio, something that is clearly not the case and unfairly enhances the previldges of those to whom it comes more easily An alterenitve would of course be to discuss wether or not the ARS would be better off with a fee based license sructure, with the fees reservsed for ARS enforcement. Not sure I endorse the idea fully but I do think it has enough merit to discuss, or even asome from of mixed system of fees or tests and fees or just tests with the pathways choosen by each of us I think that has ral merit but I doubt the FCC would ever go for it, But it does seem forbidden to even discuss something like that Those who would have the Technicians be the "oppressed victims" do hate those questions. They would trample on other's self esteem to obtain their objectives. Correct! If a person hates Morse code, that is fine. It's a free country. But The concept of people being "trapped" above 30 MHz is a sympathy ploy that has no relation to the reality of people wanting more priveliges, and doing what is needed to get them. false again. it is not a matter of sympathy but of law, the constitution, rights, all those little thing that get in the of petty (or grand) tyrants I had some people telling me to wait to get my General, because the Morse code requirement is going away "any day now". That was in 1999. Just about 6 years ago. I guess it was a good thing I didn't listen to them! 8^) But that is the tale I give the new guys who are interested in upgrading. Don't wait. Learn what you need to learn. If the requirement goes away, all you will have lost is the time spent learning Morse, and you will have traded that time for some skill and knowledge. Then I ask if 6 years of not being on HF is worth *not* learning Morse code. Certainly is I spent 5 years on it that was a waste and in those it kept you off HF and VHF and.... I traded my time for nothing Indeed the Tale I tell is decide if you want HF, and then give morse code a try, and if you try good luck with it, but please don't let yourself get down about it. - Mike KB3EIA - |
#39
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![]() Michael Coslo wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line with other people's prejudices. Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is seeking a like response. Probably because further dialog confirms an already negative viewpoint of No Code Techs. Probably because Dan and Dave chimed in with negative responses as well. Probably because I have seen many Extras with such attitudes, many of them right here on RRAP. Probably because Robber's Son keeps asking who chased away the Techs when the answer is so plainly visible. |
#40
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![]() bb wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line with other people's prejudices. Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is seeking a like response. The simple answer to your suggestion that the NCT's have all been chased away is that they've NOT been all chased away. Probably because further dialog confirms an already negative viewpoint of No Code Techs. I again insist that this must be a North of the Mason-Dixon line issue. No such "negative viewpoint" exists here. Maybe because we go out of the way to include them? Probably because Dan and Dave chimed in with negative responses as well. Probably because I have seen many Extras with such attitudes, many of them right here on RRAP. Probably because Robber's Son keeps asking who chased away the Techs when the answer is so plainly visible. No, it's not. You insist it's happened. I say it hasn't. Even casual observation reveals that's not an accurate assessment. Again I acknowledge that that is probably a regional experience. Why do you continue to defame the character of a deceased honest man? Steve, K4YZ |
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