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#41
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an_old_friend wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message groups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line with other people's prejudices. I honestly wanted to know why, in a VHF/UHF contest, I wasn't contacting more Techs since they are "trapped above 30MHz by the code test" as some would have us believe. When Technicians are nearly half of all licensed hams, why were they only about 5% of my contacts? Extra's are only about 16% of the total and yet they were about 90% of the contacts. Most Technicians are doing exactly what they want. Some are satisfied with getting on the local repeater, some are helping with public service and event support, which again is either 2m simplex or repeater work. Those who want to upgrade, do upgrade. Those who maintain that the Techs are "trapped" are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by convincing the Techs that they are not capable of passing code. Frankly I doubt too many Techs are convinced by that sort of argument. The only people (with one exception) who are trapped are those who for some reason allow themselves to be. The exception is those very, very few who for some reason are truly incapable. BUt that number is vanishingly small. Every ham at every level should be encouraged to believe in their ABILITY to master any and all of the elements even if the element is not a required one. Whether they choose to pursue it is a different issue but we should encourage them to believe in themselves and not tear down their self esteem. Yet we have some people maintaining that the code should be dropped because some people "can't learn it and are trapped above 30MHz." By maintaining this attitude they are the ones putting down the Techs and showing their prejudices. Some people cannot pass the written tests either. Does not being able to pass the General test also trap you above 30 MHz? Not passing the Extra trap you out of the Extra segments? Does not being able to pass the Technician test trap you out of Amateur radio? If I don't want to learn the satellite operation questions, is that an unfair thing, and should those questions be removed so I don't have to learn the answers to those questions? But your analogy is false if you don't wish to learn about satelite operation then don't it will not keep you from passing the test. Perfect score is NOT required in order to pass Analogys are never perfect. But as it goes, we are not allowed to pick and choose what we need to learn to get the license. If we want the license, we have to learn what is required. I don't claim to have plotted it but I beleive you even choose not to learn the rules of the ARS and still pass the test. ( not that I would recmend such a course) Futher No one has suggested removing from the question pools all content regarding Morse Encoded CW, but the current state of affairs make Morse encoded CW more important than all of the rest of Ham radio, something that is clearly not the case and unfairly enhances the previldges of those to whom it comes more easily An alterenitve would of course be to discuss wether or not the ARS would be better off with a fee based license sructure, with the fees reservsed for ARS enforcement. Not sure I endorse the idea fully but I do think it has enough merit to discuss, or even asome from of mixed system of fees or tests and fees or just tests with the pathways choosen by each of us I think that has ral merit but I doubt the FCC would ever go for it, But it does seem forbidden to even discuss something like that Those who would have the Technicians be the "oppressed victims" do hate those questions. They would trample on other's self esteem to obtain their objectives. Correct! If a person hates Morse code, that is fine. It's a free country. But The concept of people being "trapped" above 30 MHz is a sympathy ploy that has no relation to the reality of people wanting more priveliges, and doing what is needed to get them. false again. it is not a matter of sympathy but of law, the constitution, rights, all those little thing that get in the of petty (or grand) tyrants Out of context, and incorrect. No one is trapped. I had some people telling me to wait to get my General, because the Morse code requirement is going away "any day now". That was in 1999. Just about 6 years ago. I guess it was a good thing I didn't listen to them! 8^) But that is the tale I give the new guys who are interested in upgrading. Don't wait. Learn what you need to learn. If the requirement goes away, all you will have lost is the time spent learning Morse, and you will have traded that time for some skill and knowledge. Then I ask if 6 years of not being on HF is worth *not* learning Morse code. Certainly is I spent 5 years on it that was a waste and in those it kept you off HF and VHF and.... I traded my time for nothing Indeed the Tale I tell is decide if you want HF, and then give morse code a try, and if you try good luck with it, but please don't let yourself get down about it. - Mike KB3EIA - |
#42
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![]() K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line with other people's prejudices. Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is seeking a like response. break The simple answer to your suggestion that the NCT's have all been chased away is that they've NOT been all chased away. Not all indeed but most Probably because further dialog confirms an already negative viewpoint of No Code Techs. I again insist that this must be a North of the Mason-Dixon line issue. No such "negative viewpoint" exists here. It exists right here and in your person. If they dare to assert that they have rights at all, if they are good little code ******s and mind Massa Rober Son Maybe because we go out of the way to include them? You don't Probably because Dan and Dave chimed in with negative responses as well. Probably because I have seen many Extras with such attitudes, many of them right here on RRAP. Probably because Robber's Son keeps asking who chased away the Techs when the answer is so plainly visible. No, it's not. You insist it's happened. I say it hasn't. Even casual observation reveals that's not an accurate assessment. Again I acknowledge that that is probably a regional experience. Why do you continue to defame the character of a deceased honest man? Who is Being defamed? Can dish it out but can't take it Stevie boy desendant of thieves Steve, K4YZ |
#43
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![]() "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Michael Coslo wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line with other people's prejudices. Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is seeking a like response. Again you read in what is not there. Probably because further dialog confirms an already negative viewpoint of No Code Techs. You read in what is not there. If you had been around for a while, you would know that I have repeatedly expressed positive viewpoints of the no code Techs. There are many of them who are heavily involved in the club to which I belong and contribute a great deal to our club. Several of our officers are no code Techs. Our satellite guru was a no code Tech until he took time out to upgrade. Many of our no code Techs are johnny on the spot in supporting public service events. Several becames ham solely because they were interested in this aspect of ham radio. None of them are whining about how tough it is to learn the code. Many of our public service people have no interest in upgrading and that's no problem. We do not push them to do so as they are getting what they want out of ham radio. Those who wish to upgrade get our full support and help. Probably because Dan and Dave chimed in with negative responses as well. No they express disdain only for the whiners. Probably because I have seen many Extras with such attitudes, many of them right here on RRAP. Again it is only the whiners that get their hackles up not the no code Techs in general. Probably because Robber's Son keeps asking who chased away the Techs when the answer is so plainly visible. It is not at all "so plainly visible". All of us have reached out to those who wanted/needed help to upgrade. Unfortunately all of us have experienced those "know it all" individuals who think they know more than the experienced amateurs. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
#44
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![]() Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message oups.com... Michael Coslo wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line with other people's prejudices. Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is seeking a like response. Again you read in what is not there. Probably because further dialog confirms an already negative viewpoint of No Code Techs. You read in what is not there. If you had been around for a while, you would know that I have repeatedly expressed positive viewpoints of the no code Techs. There are many of them who are heavily involved in the club to which I belong and contribute a great deal to our club. Several of our officers are no code Techs. Our satellite guru was a no code Tech until he took time out to upgrade. Many of our no code Techs are johnny on the spot in supporting public service events. Several becames ham solely because they were interested in this aspect of ham radio. None of them are whining about how tough it is to learn the code. Many of our public service people have no interest in upgrading and that's no problem. We do not push them to do so as they are getting what they want out of ham radio. Those who wish to upgrade get our full support and help. Probably because Dan and Dave chimed in with negative responses as well. No they express disdain only for the whiners. Probably because I have seen many Extras with such attitudes, many of them right here on RRAP. Again it is only the whiners that get their hackles up not the no code Techs in general. break Probably because Robber's Son keeps asking who chased away the Techs when the answer is so plainly visible. It is not at all "so plainly visible". All of us have reached out to those who wanted/needed help to upgrade. Unfortunately all of us have experienced those "know it all" individuals who think they know more than the experienced amateurs. It certainly does many of the techs get tired of being told how we NED to upgrade, just at at your own words. My first contact from the ARRL was a letter telling me how I needed to upgrade Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
#45
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![]() "an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... It certainly does many of the techs get tired of being told how we NED to upgrade, just at at your own words. Nope, never told anyone that they need to upgrade just for upgrading's sake. I have however helped them learn what privileges are available should they choose to do so. My first contact from the ARRL was a letter telling me how I needed to upgrade Never received such a letter myself and do not know its content so cannot comment on it. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
#46
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![]() Dee Flint wrote: "an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... It certainly does many of the techs get tired of being told how we NED to upgrade, just at at your own words. and do you even know how many such leures tech receive? Nope, never told anyone that they need to upgrade just for upgrading's sake. I have however helped them learn what privileges are available should they choose to do so. They learned those very likely studing for the tech License My first contact from the ARRL was a letter telling me how I needed to upgrade Never received such a letter myself and do not know its content so cannot comment on it. You can of course but choose not to Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
#47
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From: "Dee Flint" on Thurs 30 Jun 2005 18:12
"bb" wrote in message roups.com... Michael Coslo wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line with other people's prejudices. Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is seeking a like response. Again you read in what is not there. Tsk, tsk, tsk, Dee. It *IS* there, whether overt or implicit. Probably because further dialog confirms an already negative viewpoint of No Code Techs. You read in what is not there. Tsk, tsk, tsk, Dee. It IS there. If you had been around for a while, you would know that I have repeatedly expressed positive viewpoints of the no code Techs. Really?!? :-) Can you name some message posting dates when you have gone out of your way to be "nice" to the no-coders? :-) There are many of them who are heavily involved in the club to which I belong and contribute a great deal to our club. Several of our officers are no code Techs. I'll bet you have "personal friends" who are not of your race or your religion, too! :-) Our satellite guru was a no code Tech until he took time out to upgrade. He built a satellite and put it into orbit through morsemanship? Many of our no code Techs are johnny on the spot in supporting public service events. Are your "coders" the same sort of "johnny on the spot?" :-) Several becames ham solely because they were interested in this aspect of ham radio. None of them are whining about how tough it is to learn the code. Do they dare comment with Mama Dee "on the spot" to catch them? :-) Many of our public service people have no interest in upgrading and that's no problem. We do not push them to do so as they are getting what they want out of ham radio. Good for you. That way you UPGRADED coders (the Elite) get to stay home and beep while the "lower classes" go out and do the real "volunteer work." Those who wish to upgrade get our full support and help. Right. Saves you Elite coders from being away from your beeping. Probably because Dan and Dave chimed in with negative responses as well. No they express disdain only for the whiners. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! Dip**** Dan, the southern-fried Einstein, and der Kommandant?!?! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! Probably because I have seen many Extras with such attitudes, many of them right here on RRAP. Again it is only the whiners that get their hackles up not the no code Techs in general. A very poor imitation of Marie Antoinette. Don't lose your head trying to do better... Probably because Robber's Son keeps asking who chased away the Techs when the answer is so plainly visible. It is not at all "so plainly visible". It might be "plainer" if it were in glowing neon on everyone's screens...but it is otherwise PLAINLY VISIBLE. All of us have reached out to those who wanted/needed help to upgrade. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! Thanks a lot for the "cake," Marie... Unfortunately all of us have experienced those "know it all" individuals who think they know more than the experienced amateurs. Really?!? Mama Dee worked HF comms a half century ago? Mama Dee spend a career doing radio-electronics design? Dee have radio-electronics hobby since 1947? Dee have commercial license for 49 years? Dee have own expensive PLMRS base and mobile station? How about that! Sunnuvagun! Sweetie, if you TRIED to be more Elitist you couldn't have topped that closer sentence! First class honors in noblesse oblige (and probably droit de signeur too...). :-) |
#48
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![]() an_old_friend wrote: K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: Michael Coslo wrote: Dee Flint wrote: "bb" wrote in message ups.com... K4YZ wrote: bb wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Yes, they do look the part of ancient toothless bullies--the faint of heart have fled in fear before their rants (as so have the women, children, small animals and gays)... And they ask who chased away the No Code Techs. Who chased away the NCT's, Brain...?!?! You keep reiterating this assinine assertion that is, in fact, untruthful, yet you continue to DODGE answering the question? I talked with two NCT's on the way home fromwork last night...They weren't lost..knew right where they were. Perhaps you didn't see Dee, Dan and Dave's prejudice in the "Where are All the Techs" thread. It's all pretty self-explanatory, and as plain as that gut of yours in the QRZ photo. Interesting how you can derive prejudice from a simple question. Probably becuase the question often gets answers that are not in line with other people's prejudices. Probably because the nature of the "simple" question is negative and is seeking a like response. break The simple answer to your suggestion that the NCT's have all been chased away is that they've NOT been all chased away. Not all indeed but most Steve thinks in absolutes. |
#49
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![]() Dee Flint wrote: "an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... It certainly does many of the techs get tired of being told how we NED to upgrade, just at at your own words. Nope, never told anyone that they need to upgrade just for upgrading's sake. I have however helped them learn what privileges are available should they choose to do so. Interesting discussion. Interseting implications here. In running the GOTA station at Field Day, and in encouraging new folks to come up and use the club station, I am often extolling the benefits of upgrading to Technicians. People who read into that that I am somehow prejudiced against the Tech's have an active imagination. Of course there are benefits to upgrading. Sounds like some people *don't want* that to get out. Seems like now we're hearing that encouragement to upgrade is chasing people away. In addition, this has become an argument that those of us who work with the Technicians and encourage them to increase their license level somehow disdain those we encourage. Almost as if the tutors in hagh school hate 11th graders because they help them pass their courses so they can become 12th graders. Good luck with that one guys! Maybe we are just supposed to ignore the Technicians, because anything we do appears to "chase them away". Talk to 'em about Ham radio - chase 'em away Don't talk to 'em - chase 'em away. Encourage 'em - chase 'em away. Uh-huh....... Funny what happens when people try to defend a bogus argument. _______________________________ We don't hate the Tech's If they want to upgrade, we are there to help. Sometimes expressing why they might want to learn something that they think they have no use for in order to get there is helpful. And BTW, the reaction to simple questions tells more about the "reactee" than it does the person posing the question. - Mike KB3EIA - |
#50
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From: Michael Coslo on Jul 1, 8:46 am
Dee Flint wrote: "an_old_friend" wrote in message It certainly does many of the techs get tired of being told how we NED to upgrade, just at at your own words. Nope, never told anyone that they need to upgrade just for upgrading's sake. I have however helped them learn what privileges are available should they choose to do so. Interesting discussion. Interseting implications here. In running the GOTA station at Field Day, and in encouraging new folks to come up and use the club station, I am often extolling the benefits of upgrading to Technicians. "Upgrade to Technician?!?" From what, Novice class? People who read into that that I am somehow prejudiced against the Tech's have an active imagination. The Coslonaut is a PCTA extra. That's an automatic placement into the Elitist look-down-the-nose at "lesser classes" group. Of course there are benefits to upgrading. Sounds like some people *don't want* that to get out. Seems like now we're hearing that encouragement to upgrade is chasing people away. Sweetie, the "encouragement" of being anal-retentitve PCTA extras is enough to chase folks away. In addition, this has become an argument that those of us who work with the Technicians and encourage them to increase their license level somehow disdain those we encourage. Almost as if the tutors in hagh school hate 11th graders because they help them pass their courses so they can become 12th graders. THIRD GRADERS can become EXTRAS. You were saying...? Good luck with that one guys! No problem. Your "reasoning" allows replies to be written automatically...as if "it writes itself." Maybe we are just supposed to ignore the Technicians, because anything we do appears to "chase them away". Acting like Elitist PCTA extras will do that every time... Talk to 'em about Ham radio - chase 'em away "Work the world with 'CW'" In 2005. BWAHAHAHAHAHAH.... Don't talk to 'em - chase 'em away. Encourage 'em - chase 'em away. Tsk. You haven't learned any salesmanship or just plain getting- along-with-others-effectively, have you? Funny what happens when people try to defend a bogus argument. Tsk. That's what we've seen from the PCTA extras all along... We don't hate the Tech's [you haven't learned proper pluralization either...BTASE] Nah, there's no "hate." As long as the Technicians sit in the back of the spectral bus and dring from separate water fountains, you PCTA extras don't "hate" them. If they want to upgrade, we are there to help. [this sounds like a very bad redux of "Uncle Tom's Cabin"] Sometimes expressing why they might want to learn something that they think they have no use for in order to get there is helpful. Yes...explain to those "lesser folk" the NEED to "show dedication and committment to the amateur community" through testing for RADIOTELEGRAPHY (the cutting edge of communications art). And BTW, the reaction to simple questions tells more about the "reactee" than it does the person posing the question. Tsk. You've gone "critical" and your nuclear pile is reacting. Medical science can cure piles. Get your relief. All this noblesse oblige in here from the PCTA extras... :-( |
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