K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed 22 Jun 2005 17:03


wrote:
bb Jun 19, 10:51 pm show options
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...

It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss n the
ARS.

"bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls?

Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of
EMCOM, eh?

I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next
time I see her.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan, you're welcome to tell her anything you want. She's probably
already aware that you usually get it wrong anyway.

Do you have trouble chewing gum and walking Bryan?

I don't chew gum. I don't smoke, either. Did you have a point?

Probably on his head...



He should have it biopsied. Save him an early date with the actuarial
tables.

Sounds like a plan! Ol' Danny is getting worse. Now he thinks
I am claiming "combat action." Maybe I'll claim SEVEN of them
just to keep him happy? It works for another.

But you HAVE claimed combat action, Lennie!

I know that Steve has made such assertions.

Nothing to back it up with, though.

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Mike Coslo" wrote


Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an
antenna farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable
contester with say a dipole and an IC-746.


Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a
competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and
techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in their
station design.

73, de Hans, K0HB


It takes two things to communicate, an operator at both ends.

Dan/W4NTI

Michael Coslo wrote:
K=D8HB wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote

The unskilled operators don't do very well even with an excellent setup=
, and
the skilled operators do well with a more mundane setup that the new or=
less
experienced have a lot of trouble with.

This assertion is different from your original question which implied t=
hat
100W/dipole stations are manned by better operators than "knob twiddler=
s" found
at better equipped stations.

It was a question, Hans. Not an implication. It isn't an either or
proposition either. I'd be purdy dum to think that those who have more
mundane setups have better ops than those at the better stations.

And I would still want to have that good op with a 100 watt station
than the not so good op at the "contest station".

Obviously the best setup is the good op at the good station.


My assertion is that competition-grade STATIONS
("competition grade" does not mean "most expensive") are built and oper=
ated by
competition-grade radiomen. Witness K1TTT, KC1XX, W3LPL, W0AIH, N0AT, =
K0KX,
K3LR, W7RM, etc., etc.

Of course. But this whole tangent of the thread was based on my
assertion that between the good operator and the good equipment, your
best to side with the good operator.

Kinda like buying that huge Craftsman (or Snap-On or whatever) tool set
and cabinet doesn't make you a master mechanic. However, many master
mechanics have that same tool set.

I look at it another way...

The basic evaluation factor in contesting is "what are the limitations"
- IOW, what limited/limits your score?

Put up the classic "100W midrange HF transceiver and G5RV at 40 feet"
station. Paper logs.

If you sit an unskilled op in front of it during a major contest, the
score will be mostly limited by the operator's skill, not the setup.
Put a skilled op in the same seat, and the score will be mostly limited
by the setup.

The key to improvements is to identify what the limiting factors
are, and how to deal with them. That's where SO2R came from in
the first place. The top ops found that their scores were being
limited by the choice between running contacts and grabbing
multipliers. SO2R permits doing both at almost the same time. For
an op capable of using such a setup well, it removes a limitation. To
an op who is not so skilled, it won't make much difference.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dave Heil wrote:
KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote


Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an
antenna farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable
contester with say a dipole and an IC-746.



Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a
competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and
techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in
their station design.

73, de Hans, K0HB


Generally but not always, Hans. Here's an example: Joe Moneybags has
always admired the photos which Hans Brakob takes. He notes that Hans
always uses a top of the line Nikon. Joe sells his Canon and buys the
expensive Nikon. His photos are still not up to the Brakob standard. Joe
fails to realize that the skill of the photographer is more important
than the price or model of the camera. You have to have seen something
similar a dozen times in DXing or contesting.

And that is my basic point. If people want to claim it is specious, then I
guess they mean that the equipment is much more important than the
operators skills.

All you have to do is pump money into the contest station, and assuming
you pump the most money into it, you will win.

Sounds ridiculous to me. Perhaps my with my setup, I should just give up.
I don't stand a chance of even doing well, much less winning, eh?

Or perhaps a person can hone their skills using a modest setup, then move
on to a hot station and start doing very well.

I wonder how many Ops have started at the top?

I think I'll buy an Indy car. If I buy the mostest expensivist one, I'll
surely win all the races, eh?

- Mike KB3EIA -


Your on the right track Mike. Work on your skills. Best way to do that is
to operate at a, shall we say, less than competitive setup. Makes you
appreciate the improvements as they come.

That is why the loss of the Novice license is such a disaster to Amateur
Radio.

We used to have to dig em out of the noise, hand on rx and follow them
up/down the band. Not much for filters, just your ears and brain. But
that's another subject.

Dan/W4NTI

wrote in message
ups.com...

I've had similar experiences on FD. Some folks think they're
doing well to make QSOs on SSB at a certain rate with a beam and 100 W
transceiver, with an op and a logger. Exhausted after an hour or two,
they wander over to the CW tent and find me working
them at 2, 3 or more times their rate, with a dipole, "old"
transceiver, and no logger.

The reactions when presented with a manual transmatch were
priceless, too.



73 de Jim, N2EY

Yeah it is. I was at a FD a few years back and I fired up the "bug". You
should have seen their looks of amazement. Had em standing in line to ask
me questions afterwards.

Dan/W4nti

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dave" wrote


wow, first in the list! now you are going to make my head swell.


If you want to stay in that position, just don't snuggle up too close to
my run QRG. BSEG

73, de Hans, K0HB



Yeah....ole Hans likes the "slip and slide" technique. If he hears anyone
getting too close for some reason his VFO tracks that way. Must be running
a Kenwood.

Just kidding Hans.

Dan/W4NTI

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
wrote:


[snip]

Mike Coslo wrote:

KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote

That's why it might be a good idea - next year - to run all ~100 W
setups.

We did last year, and I liked it. Made almost as many points too.

- mike KB3EIA -


Our club always runs all stations at 100W.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote


Our club always runs all stations at 100W.


Power-mongers!

That is why the loss of the Novice license is such a disaster to Amateur
Radio.

All in the name of pushing a mike button there Dan ....pure and simple ....




We used to have to dig em out of the noise, hand on rx and follow them
up/down the band. Not much for filters, just your ears and brain. But
that's another subject.

Dan/W4NTI

Boy Dan that is right ..... did that with the old HA-230 ..... like I said
before ....it drifted more than my uncle coming out of the Legion on a
Saturday night .....

Take care Dan . et al see you on the air for FD ...W3CSL Monessen ARC
.....

garigue wrote:
That is why the loss of the Novice license is such a disaster to Amateur
Radio.


All in the name of pushing a mike button there Dan ....pure and simple ....





We used to have to dig em out of the noise, hand on rx and follow them
up/down the band. Not much for filters, just your ears and brain. But
that's another subject.

Dan/W4NTI


Boy Dan that is right ..... did that with the old HA-230 ..... like I said
before ....it drifted more than my uncle coming out of the Legion on a
Saturday night .....

Take care Dan . et al see you on the air for FD ...W3CSL Monessen ARC
....



And Novices were required to be crystal controlled, which meant that a
Novice might own 1 or 2 crystals, or maybe a rich kid would own 3
crystals. So you first checked to see if the frequency of your crystal
was in use, if not then call CQ, three by three, CQ three times, your
call three times, and that repeated three times. Then you scanned the
band because chances are some other novice answering you would not have
the same crystal frequency you did. As Dan says, one learned to dig em'
out, and the drifty receivers made it even more challenging.