"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...

My attitude toward many of the current crop of new techs is one bathed
upon five years observation, since returning to the U.S. I haven't chased
them anywhere. In fact, it has been just the opposite. I've tried to
encourage them to use simplex on FM. I've tried to encourage them to try
6 meters along with 432 and 144 MHz SSB and CW. I can't be faulted that
they don't act after being encouraged. If these folks are, in fact
"trapped" in a world of 2m only FM repeater operation, they have fashioned
the trap themselves by not being more curious about the rest of VHF/UHF
amateur radio. There are avenues open to them but they aren't
participating.

Dave K8MN


Man does that say it all in a well articulated paragraph. Valid points out
there
in tech land.

The Technician ticket originally was envisioned to enable those that had a
technical
slant that needed a place to play on the "air". It has degenerated into a
defacto
"entry level" to present day Ham Radio. What a bummer.

I bet a lot of those out there don't know that the original Tech written was
exactly
the same as the General. The ONLY difference was the General had a 13 WPM
cw test. Send and Receive. And the Tech had a 5wpm......and was available
by
mail.

Dan/W4NTI

Dee Flint wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...
bb wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:

Dee Flint wrote:

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
rthlink.net...


[snip]



Why do I contest? To improve my score by improving my station and
myself.

Its as simple as that.

Have a good day

PS; I worked a bunch of sporadic skip yesterday on six meters in the
June
VHF contest.....with 8 watts and a 3 ele yagi at 20'.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Dan/W4NTI




I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

Oh, they're still trapped on VHF, Dee. Most of 'em are so trapped that
they know only one mode--FM and do all of their operating via repeaters.

What a wunnerful attitude you have toward Techs, Oh Mighty DXer. And
people have to ask who chased away the Techs. I guess the only time
you would embrace a Tech is if he were calling you out of band on 6M.
Hi!

I don't embrace radio amateurs at all, "bb". A firm handshake is good
enough for me.

My attitude toward many of the current crop of new techs is one bathed
upon five years observation, since returning to the U.S. I haven't chased
them anywhere. In fact, it has been just the opposite. I've tried to
encourage them to use simplex on FM. I've tried to encourage them to try
6 meters along with 432 and 144 MHz SSB and CW. I can't be faulted that
they don't act after being encouraged. If these folks are, in fact
"trapped" in a world of 2m only FM repeater operation, they have fashioned
the trap themselves by not being more curious about the rest of VHF/UHF
amateur radio. There are avenues open to them but they aren't
participating.

Dave K8MN


I agree with you Dave,

Of course you do.

I and the OM (who is our local club's VHF/UHF SSB
guru) have worked hard at trying to get Techs involved with something other
than repeater FM.

Why?

While we have had some modest success, it's only a small
percentage of the Techs who have jumped into these waters.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Have you asked them why they are reluctant to jump into those waters?

Since they've not jumped in, does that change your attitude about them?

Dee Flint wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dee Flint wrote:

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, I'm going to guess (i.e., don't ask me for facts, figures,
substantive studies, reports from the FCC/ARRL, etc) that of the Techs
that have stayed in amateur radio, most have done so for the emergency
communications aspect of the service. As such, they would typically
stay on FM.

The ones who could learn Morse Code and have had to time to do so have
moved up. Those who didn't have the time or couldn't learn it have
moved on.


There are none who cannot learn the code.

Really? Why do you say that?

However there are those for whom
other activities can and should have priority on their time. However that
is no excuse for eliminating it as a test element since the same argument
can be applied to the theory.

You hold a very interesting point of view. You say that since everyone
can learn the code, that it must be retained as a test element?

I say that it should be removed as a test element because it no longer
serves a regulatory purpose.

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators. On the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators.
So
where are all the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they
"can't" pass the code (as some would have us believe)?

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Hey Dee,

Good question actually. Perhaps they are part of the vast majority of
hams
that are inactive.

More likely they are all "stuck" on FM and have not a clue what else is
going on with V/Uhf. What a shame.

Dan/W4NTI

Ah, yes. The Shameful, Clueless Techs. With attitudes like yours,
it's no wonder they don't hang around.


I don't recall anyone on here, other than you "bb", using the word Shameful
or
Clueless regarding the Technician licensees. All I see is folks stating
they don't
understand why the Techs don't take full advantage of their full license
privileges.

You sir, are nothing but a agitator and a disgrace to ham radio in general,
assuming
you have a license that is.

Dan/W4NTI

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dee Flint wrote:

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, I'm going to guess (i.e., don't ask me for facts, figures,
substantive studies, reports from the FCC/ARRL, etc) that of the Techs
that have stayed in amateur radio, most have done so for the emergency
communications aspect of the service. As such, they would typically
stay on FM.

The ones who could learn Morse Code and have had to time to do so have
moved up. Those who didn't have the time or couldn't learn it have
moved on.

It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss in the
ARS.


"bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls?

Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of
EMCOM, eh?

I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next
time I see her.

Dan/W4NTI

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators. On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of
the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv

It's so refreshing to see Extras being Extras again; having their usual
disdain for the No Code Techs. And some people have to ask who chased
away the Techs.


Does the name "DIP****" mean anything to you "bb" ? Just curious.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...

My attitude toward many of the current crop of new techs is one bathed
upon five years observation, since returning to the U.S. I haven't chased
them anywhere. In fact, it has been just the opposite. I've tried to
encourage them to use simplex on FM. I've tried to encourage them to try
6 meters along with 432 and 144 MHz SSB and CW. I can't be faulted that
they don't act after being encouraged. If these folks are, in fact
"trapped" in a world of 2m only FM repeater operation, they have fashioned
the trap themselves by not being more curious about the rest of VHF/UHF
amateur radio. There are avenues open to them but they aren't
participating.

Dave K8MN


Man does that say it all in a well articulated paragraph. Valid points out
there
in tech land.

Indeed it does. David has articulated, and Dan has agreed that a Tech
really isn't worth much as an amateur if they don't do the things that
Dave, Dan and Dee want them to be doing. I'm sure that your attitudes
spill over into your communication with those unworthy Techs.

The Technician ticket originally was envisioned to enable those that had a
technical
slant that needed a place to play on the "air". It has degenerated into a
defacto
"entry level" to present day Ham Radio. What a bummer.

Degenerated? Dan, I'd like to introduce you to the FCC sometime. It
was the FCC that turned the Technician license into your disdained
entry level to present day "Ham Radio."

I bet a lot of those out there don't know that the original Tech written was
exactly
the same as the General. The ONLY difference was the General had a 13 WPM
cw test. Send and Receive. And the Tech had a 5wpm......and was available
by
mail.

Dan/W4NTI

Thanks for the insight into the "Mind of Dan."

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of
the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv


BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical
in
nature way back in the early 60s.

Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you
said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments?

And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode.

Dan/W4NTI

If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW
used most often?


No I have not commented on anything with the FCC other than BPL and sending
in reports about
K1MAN.

I figured out a long time ago the FCC was basically a lap dog of the ARRL
when it comes to
dumbing down of the license structure. And my pitiful input wasn't going to
have any affect
at all.

So "bb".....does that blow your mind, or what?

Dan/W4NTI

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dee Flint wrote:

I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, I'm going to guess (i.e., don't ask me for facts, figures,
substantive studies, reports from the FCC/ARRL, etc) that of the Techs
that have stayed in amateur radio, most have done so for the emergency
communications aspect of the service. As such, they would typically
stay on FM.

The ones who could learn Morse Code and have had to time to do so have
moved up. Those who didn't have the time or couldn't learn it have
moved on.

It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss in the
ARS.


"bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls?

Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of
EMCOM, eh?

I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next
time I see her.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan, you're welcome to tell her anything you want. She's probably
already aware that you usually get it wrong anyway.

"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...
bb wrote:

Dan/W4NTI wrote:

wrote in message
egroups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:


I and the OM also worked some of the VHF contest and noticed a very
strange
thing. Only 10% of the contacts that we made were Technician
operators.
On
the other hand, 80% of them were Extra class operators. So where are
all
the Techs who are "trapped" in VHF and above because they "can't" pass
the
code (as some would have us believe)?

It's Techs being Techs again, they're too busy "advancing the state of
the art" to be bothered with learning the code and contesting.


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv


BWAHHHHHHHHH....we both know the "Tech" license stopped being technical
in
nature way back in the early 60s.


Dan, I've never seen you advocating "Truth in Licensing." Have you
said as much to the FCC in any of your NPRM comments?


And MOST VHF/UHF contesting is done in SSB mode.

Dan/W4NTI


If most of the VHF/UHF Contestors are Extra's as Dee says, why isn't CW
used most often?

It is used, "bb", but ops are attempting to maximize score by working
everyone, even those not using CW. I switch modes quite often during the
course of a VHF/UHF contest. During heavy aurora, CW works much better
than SSB. I'd have thought you'd have already known it.

Dave K8MN

Correct.....in fact I see CW activity INCREASING on VHF. At least 6
meters, which is all I have running, right now.

Years ago it was nearly impossible to get a CW contact on VHF. In fact a
lot of rigs, homebrew and/or commercial didn't even have a key jack in them.

I like seeing CW on VHF. I do like everyone else does, if their trying to
maximize QSO's, contest or otherwise. Both modes.

Dan/W4NTI