"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...



and I did not pass. In retrospect, this must have been the diff
between Morse Code and the advent of the ARRL VEC use of the Farnsworth
Code.

I'm not sure I understand that. As I remember the FCC universally used
those paper tape machines. And the method, although not called Farnsworth
that I can recall, was the same. I.E. Code sent at a fast rate with
spacing larger. This is the Farnsworth method.

Of course I may be wrong. But explain what you mean.

Dan/W4NTI

"Mike Coslo" wrote


Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an antenna
farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable contester with
say a dipole and an IC-746.


Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a
competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and
techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in their
station design.

73, de Hans, K0HB

KØHB wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote


Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an antenna
farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable contester with
say a dipole and an IC-746.



Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a
competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and
techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in their
station design.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Generally but not always, Hans. Here's an example: Joe Moneybags has
always admired the photos which Hans Brakob takes. He notes that Hans
always uses a top of the line Nikon. Joe sells his Canon and buys the
expensive Nikon. His photos are still not up to the Brakob standard.
Joe fails to realize that the skill of the photographer is more
important than the price or model of the camera. You have to have seen
something similar a dozen times in DXing or contesting.

Dave K8MN

KØHB wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote


Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an antenna
farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable contester with
say a dipole and an IC-746.



Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a
competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and
techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in their
station design.

Do you think so Hans? I have examples of just that, and it has been my
personal experience. Your statement is true as far as it goes, but I've
seen what happens when the newbies have access to the competition grade
setups, as sometimes happens during events such as Field day

So many of the newbies I have worked with come in with the expectations
of sitting down, throwing the tuning knob around, and calling, then
waiting for the pileup. They get frustrated with the work that you have
to put into the more modest setups.

Many times we are told that the station "isn't working". And of course
it is. An experienced and patient operator can start making QSO's
immediately. One of the newbies decided that he wanted to use the QRO
station and referred to the GOTA as a "toy station".

Those QRO stations are powerful competition for lower powered ones. It
is not terribly difficult to twiddle the knob, start calling CQ, and
getting return calls. Problem is, it doesn't tend to make you a good
contester.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Dave Heil wrote:
KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote


Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an
antenna farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good
capable contester with say a dipole and an IC-746.



Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a
competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and
techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in
their station design.

73, de Hans, K0HB


Generally but not always, Hans. Here's an example: Joe Moneybags has
always admired the photos which Hans Brakob takes. He notes that Hans
always uses a top of the line Nikon. Joe sells his Canon and buys the
expensive Nikon. His photos are still not up to the Brakob standard.
Joe fails to realize that the skill of the photographer is more
important than the price or model of the camera. You have to have seen
something similar a dozen times in DXing or contesting.

And that is my basic point. If people want to claim it is specious,
then I guess they mean that the equipment is much more important than
the operators skills.

All you have to do is pump money into the contest station, and assuming
you pump the most money into it, you will win.

Sounds ridiculous to me. Perhaps my with my setup, I should just give
up. I don't stand a chance of even doing well, much less winning, eh?

Or perhaps a person can hone their skills using a modest setup, then
move on to a hot station and start doing very well.

I wonder how many Ops have started at the top?

I think I'll buy an Indy car. If I buy the mostest expensivist one,
I'll surely win all the races, eh?

- Mike KB3EIA -

From: "bb" on Wed 22 Jun 2005 15:48


wrote:
From: "bb" on Tues 21 Jun 2005 03:15

wrote:
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message


The twoers and sixers were rock-bound. Anyway, he said that he wasn't
familiar with VHF.

"Familiarity with VHF" wasn't needed. ALL that counted was getting
the morse code speed UP...that yielded absolute knowledge of all
theory thus guaranteeing rank-status-privilege.

We're trying to change that, all in vain. Only the actuarial tables
bring about change in the ARS.

Well, that's how it goes... :-)

I designed and built an external VFO for a few Sixers. Worked fine.
One of the recipients was showing an olde-fahrt extra how it
operated and olde-fahrt said "Nice, did you build it?" "No," said
my friend and, pointing to me, "He did." "THAT'S ILLEGAL!" shouted
the olde-fahrt. Heh heh heh...the same anal attitudes existed four
decades ago as they do now.

In RRAP, we have the uniformed, and the uninformed!

The "uniformed and the uninformed!" I LIKE that phrase. Apt. :-)


You forgot to mention the changes in elevation over changes in
distance!!!

Heh heh heh. In northern Illinois the elevation changes amount
to +/- a yard. Not even close to bragging rights... :-)

Darnit!!! We're supposed to hear about how it was uphill both ways
juss like the real hammes claim.

That was for a COMMERCIAL license, Brian. No braggin' rights
allowed in here on that. :-)

However, to kill time waiting for the return train, I saw a
matinee of "Oklahoma." Sat in the balcony, undisturbed. That
was good for a change of a couple stories in height! :-)

Did you try a "balcony" antenna while there?

Nobody to communicate with. Was a slow day for matinees, I guess.


Too bad it was a sunny day in Chicago. No snow to brag to
anyone ("uphill both ways through"). Passed no problem,
even with the interruption of a fire drill in the Federal
Building halfway through the test.

No real hamme could have survived that.

You're probably right.


[a lot of the anony-mousies won't know what we're talking
about on this subject...they weren't here to see some of the
astounding bragging going on by the late Dick Carroll and
others in here]



Dick was not unique unto himself. There are plenty of Dick imposters
in the ARS.

You mean the beepers are all just dildoes?!? Good grief!

Maybe Dr. Ruth Westheimer needs to be informed of this!?!

Brrrr...what a group!

From: "bb" on Wed 22 Jun 2005 17:03


wrote:
bb Jun 19, 10:51 pm show options
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...

It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss n the
ARS.

"bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls?

Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of
EMCOM, eh?

I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next
time I see her.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan, you're welcome to tell her anything you want. She's probably
already aware that you usually get it wrong anyway.

Do you have trouble chewing gum and walking Bryan?

I don't chew gum. I don't smoke, either. Did you have a point?

Probably on his head...



He should have it biopsied. Save him an early date with the actuarial
tables.

Sounds like a plan! Ol' Danny is getting worse. Now he thinks
I am claiming "combat action." Maybe I'll claim SEVEN of them
just to keep him happy? It works for another. :-)

The Vietnam War ended 30 years ago. I guess this post-traumatic
stress stuff really gets to some...and lasts a long time...

More and more I'm thinking the PCTA extras are going bonkers
from too much beeping.

wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed 22 Jun 2005 17:03


wrote:
bb Jun 19, 10:51 pm show options
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...

It's nice to see Miss Manners finally noticing something amiss n the
ARS.

"bb" is just full of all sorts of assumptions, ain't he boys and girls?

Using his logic then all us "higher" class operators need to get out of
EMCOM, eh?

I'll be sure to tell the Extra class Emergency Net Control operator next
time I see her.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan, you're welcome to tell her anything you want. She's probably
already aware that you usually get it wrong anyway.

Do you have trouble chewing gum and walking Bryan?

I don't chew gum. I don't smoke, either. Did you have a point?

Probably on his head...



He should have it biopsied. Save him an early date with the actuarial
tables.

Sounds like a plan! Ol' Danny is getting worse. Now he thinks
I am claiming "combat action." Maybe I'll claim SEVEN of them
just to keep him happy? It works for another.

But you HAVE claimed combat action, Lennie!

You repeatedly try to impress us with how you "served" with guys
who were KIA, and you were quite eloquent trying to tell yet another
person what it was REALLY like being under "incomming artillery
fire"... ! ! ! ! !

The Vietnam War ended 30 years ago. I guess this post-traumatic
stress stuff really gets to some...and lasts a long time...

It must...You've been suffering PTSD from Korean War service even
though you weren't anywhere near the fight.

More and more I'm thinking the PCTA extras are going bonkers
from too much beeping.

No....It only seems that way as you fall deeper into your OWN
psychosis, Lennie...Comes from too much ranting and raving in
newsgroups that you don't belong in.

Steve, K4YZ

Dave Heil wrote:
K=D8HB wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote


Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000 and an ante=
nna
farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good capable conteste=
r with
say a dipole and an IC-746.



Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds a
competition grade station has also invested in building the skills and
techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have sought in th=
eir
station design.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Generally but not always, Hans. Here's an example: Joe Moneybags has
always admired the photos which Hans Brakob takes. He notes that Hans
always uses a top of the line Nikon. Joe sells his Canon and buys the
expensive Nikon. His photos are still not up to the Brakob standard.
Joe fails to realize that the skill of the photographer is more
important than the price or model of the camera. You have to have seen
something similar a dozen times in DXing or contesting.

Dave K8MN

In music. Some guy see's Joe Walsh playing a guitar and buys one just
like it...

Mike Coslo wrote:
K=D8HB wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote

Who do ya want - a impatient knob twiddler with a FTDX 9000
and an antenna
farm of (insert your favorite antenna here), or a good
capable contester with
say a dipole and an IC-746.

Your example is specious, Mike. Generally the contester who builds=
a
competition grade station has also invested in building the
skills and
techniques to take advantage of the capabilities they have
sought in their station design.

Do you think so Hans? I have examples of just that, and it
has been my
personal experience. Your statement is true as far as it
goes, but I've
seen what happens when the newbies have access to the
competition grade
setups, as sometimes happens during events such as Field day

The difference is that they didn't build that station themselves.

So many of the newbies I have worked with come in with the
expectations
of sitting down, throwing the tuning knob around, and calling,
then
waiting for the pileup. They get frustrated with the work that
you have to put into the more modest setups.

I think one of the main purposes of FD is that sort of
education. Let folks try out new (to them) rigs, new antennas,
operating techniques, etc., and see what *really* works. And
let the newbies see how it's done.

Many times we are told that the station "isn't working".
And of course it is.

Cockpit trouble. Short-circuit between the headphones.

An experienced and patient operator can start making QSO's
immediately. One of the newbies decided that he wanted to use
the QRO
station and referred to the GOTA as a "toy station".

"younger and more capable minds"....

I've had similar experiences on FD. Some folks think they're
doing well to make QSOs on SSB at a certain rate with a beam and 100 W
transceiver, with an op and a logger. Exhausted after an hour or two,
they wander over to the CW tent and find me working
them at 2, 3 or more times their rate, with a dipole, "old"
transceiver, and no logger.

The reactions when presented with a manual transmatch were
priceless, too.

Those QRO stations are powerful competition for lower powered
ones. It
is not terribly difficult to twiddle the knob, start calling
CQ, and
getting return calls. Problem is, it doesn't tend to make you a good co=
ntester.

That's why it might be a good idea - next year - to run all ~100 W
setups.

73 de Jim, N2EY