Dee:

Like the "magic of traveling is the horse?"

I think not, but I see the small group here is all centered about
this... not surprising really... but way out of mainstream...

John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Dee:

Down load Mirc (it is free) if you have a windows machine (if apple
there are other programs)and learn to IRC... you will find you have
been missing a lot..

John


Tried it and didn't like it. The magic of ham radio is that you don't
need an infrastructure such as the internet.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Mike Coslo wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
John Smith wrote:
Dee:

[snip]

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...



[snip]


So what you really needed was exposure - publicity - examples - demos.

Were you attracted to amateur radio because it was like the internet,
or because it was something very different?

Yes I needed to know what it was all about before developing an interest in
radio for it's own sake. The Novice/Tech class I took along with my husband at the time filled that role.

"Radio for its own sake" - that's the key to amateur radio. If
someone is turned on by that, they may want to be a ham. If not,
it's highly doubtful.

I have to note that in an earlier post where you disagreed
with me
about a person "knowing" they wanted to be a ham,
after reading this, I
have to agree that the things that I most enjoy now
are nothing like
what I thought I wanted to do when first becoming a ham.

Which of course is a powerful argument for
keeping the Morse code test.

Exactly.

When I first got started with a shortwave receiver (homemade),
I was attracted to ham radio by the folks on 75 meter AM. I
wanted to join them, so I set about getting a license.

In those days, that meant at least a General Class license,
so I set about learning the code and theory, and setting up
a station. Got the Novice at age 13 in 1967 and went on the
air with Morse Code.

Now originally the plan was to use Morse Code on the air until
I could get the General. But a funny thing happened on the way -
I discovered how much fun Morse Code was, and how much could be
done with very simple equipment using Morse Code. And it became my
favorite mode.

Once I had some basic knowledge about ham radio, I was
attracted by the fact
that it was NOT like the internet. What attracted me
was that I could talk
around the world with NO INFRASTRUCTURE. That
communications was totally
dependent on me and my skills and my knowledge of
propagation once I had the
basic radio and antenna. Here I, just an average citizen,
could put a radio
signal around the world and even beyond if I wanted to
pursue it.

That's the hook for me, too. Plus doing it with equipment I
designed and built myself.

If it had been like the internet, I'd probably have lost
interest.

Although I use the Internet a lot (probably waay too much) I
love Ham
radio precisely because it ISN'T the Internet.

Same here.

The big difference is that the 'net is a means to an end. Ham radio is
an end in itself.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY:

When there was some mystery to radio, perhaps, no longer... most even
listen to shortwave on the internet...

Check out radio australia, BBC, etc. webpages... they even make note of
it... and you can get their broadcasts though your computer with audio
quality which is remarkable...

No, we are just watching the end of an era, like the horse and buggy...
no one stuck in the past can ever see the future coming, and they all
end up dreaming of halting progress... even from their rest homes...

If you stay active with the youngsters and an important part of your
community activities it is much easier to accept change and have the
skills to adapt...

.... staying current is a real chore, popping into a college now and
grabbing a course to stay current is beyond what some can will or
want...

Many are just too old to be able to incorporate the computer into their
lives, the current generation can't live without them--but then, neither
can I and I consider myself an old fart...

John

wrote in message
oups.com...
Mike Coslo wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
John Smith wrote:
Dee:

[snip]

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...



[snip]


So what you really needed was exposure - publicity - examples -
demos.

Were you attracted to amateur radio because it was like the
internet,
or because it was something very different?

Yes I needed to know what it was all about before developing an
interest in
radio for it's own sake. The Novice/Tech class I took along
with my husband at the time filled that role.

"Radio for its own sake" - that's the key to amateur radio. If
someone is turned on by that, they may want to be a ham. If not,
it's highly doubtful.

I have to note that in an earlier post where you disagreed
with me
about a person "knowing" they wanted to be a ham,
after reading this, I
have to agree that the things that I most enjoy now
are nothing like
what I thought I wanted to do when first becoming a ham.

Which of course is a powerful argument for
keeping the Morse code test.

Exactly.

When I first got started with a shortwave receiver (homemade),
I was attracted to ham radio by the folks on 75 meter AM. I
wanted to join them, so I set about getting a license.

In those days, that meant at least a General Class license,
so I set about learning the code and theory, and setting up
a station. Got the Novice at age 13 in 1967 and went on the
air with Morse Code.

Now originally the plan was to use Morse Code on the air until
I could get the General. But a funny thing happened on the way -
I discovered how much fun Morse Code was, and how much could be
done with very simple equipment using Morse Code. And it became my
favorite mode.

Once I had some basic knowledge about ham radio, I was
attracted by the fact
that it was NOT like the internet. What attracted me
was that I could talk
around the world with NO INFRASTRUCTURE. That
communications was totally
dependent on me and my skills and my knowledge of
propagation once I had the
basic radio and antenna. Here I, just an average citizen,
could put a radio
signal around the world and even beyond if I wanted to
pursue it.

That's the hook for me, too. Plus doing it with equipment I
designed and built myself.

If it had been like the internet, I'd probably have lost
interest.

Although I use the Internet a lot (probably waay too much) I
love Ham
radio precisely because it ISN'T the Internet.

Same here.

The big difference is that the 'net is a means to an end. Ham radio is
an end in itself.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Top Posting John Smith wrote:
Kelly:

Yep. I think you are unaware that some of us out here have our licenses,
got our radios fired up, tune the bands--and it is nothing but the same
old, same old...

We do see all the rag chews, boring rants, same operators, same gripes,
same rants, same little groups, same ideas, same conversations as
yesterday--day, after day, after day...

So what do you want them to talk about? I thought hams could converse
about whatever pleases them. I don't see anything in the FCC regulations
that says hams can only talk about this and can't talk about that. Do you?

I am sure a lot of 'em are sitting there waiting for us poor ignorant
ops to "get with it" and "come to the realization" of just how vital and
interesting this all is and SHOULD BE to us...

If you aren't interested no one is holding a gun to your head to make
you listen. Have enough sense to either change to another frequency/band
or turn the damn radio off and find something else to do.


Well I am one which does not and cannot appreciate it... if the fault
lies with me and my interests and views--so be it...

Thank goodness not everyone has to share your views or interests.


If I am wrong and all these young guys just can't wait to get a license
and startup a QSO so they hear these old guys fart and rant--well, that
is just a short coming of mine--and, those young dynamic guys who are
running the world right now and providing new ideas, designs and methods
are probably on the way here right now to find the old farts.... I'll
just sit here and wait for 'em, I need a change... maybe I can chat
with one or two of 'em--if they can quit their hero worship of you guys
long enough... grin

John

Sure sounds like ham radio isn't for you. Maybe you should go back to cb
and the 'freeband'.

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
.. . .

encounters with woman engineers. Is it possible that the woman
engineers I don't see out here are operating in academia instead??
Would not surprise me a bit if that's the case.


I work out in the trenches of the automotive industry

Got it, misimpression on my part, I think you've mentioned "your
students" in the past and I assumed the rest.

and stated that I did
NOT see very many female engineers but that I see more female hams than
female engineers.

I did get this part of it right.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv

From: "Phil Kane" on Thurs 16 Jun 2005 12:28

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:03:51 -0400, Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:

How many women get their pilots license as compared to men?

I don't know. I'll have to ask our friend Jane who owns and flys
her own air taxi service....

The "Grace L. Ferguson Storm Door and Airline Company?" :-)

Find any local Ninety-Nines chapter and ask around there.
Good for another lop-sided opinion.



Ever go to an antique radio swap meet? You will find a lot more men
collecting and fixing old radios than women.

One of the more prominent collectors and restorers of WW-II-era
military radios is a woman - who is also the communications chief
for one of the major California cities.

MINOR city, Phil. Tsk, tsk.

If you like butch lesbians, she's the gal for you...

She isn't old enough (by photos) to be born until at
least 1965 or later...

Do you collect dolls, tea sets, china dishes? No? Lots of women do.

As do most of the dealers in that field, who are overwhelmingly male.

Tsk, tsk, you need to watch more HGTV, Phil. Especially
the "Carol Duvall Show." :-)

Or walk into any Michael's chain outlet any hour of the day.

Bye.

Phil Kane wrote:
On 15 Jun 2005 17:01:18 -0700, wrote:

In all my 43 years in engineering I've met a grand total of four woman
engineers, two MEs, one EE and a Chem E.

In my 50 years in engineering I've =dated= more women engineers than
you seem to have met, was engaged to one (nuclear engineer) and
married another (EE). In my wife's office alone there are more than
4 =PEs= on her floor, including the chief of the structural engineering
section (imagine that, a lady tower engineer). Had my wife gone
through the paperwork as she talked about twenty years ago she, too,
would have been a PE.

Our contesting club alone has
three female members, an old girlfriend is a ham and I met W3CUL. Out
of Lord only knows how many engineers and hams I've met over the years.

In our club, the largest radio club in the state if not in the
Pacific Northwest, about 1/3 of the hams are women, and of them,
about half are active on the air in some fashion or other.

This topic is getting interesting, I'd like to take it a bit further.
I'm at a complete loss to understand why there's such an obvious
disparity in the numbers of woman hams & engineers in this part of the
country vs. in your part of the country.

With respect to the socioeconomicpolitical mindsets Oregon is well
known for marching to it's own occasionally quirky liberal drummer
while PA is a typical old-form mid-Atlantic centrist sort of place. I
'spose there are some of the usual left coast / right coast differences
which sort of favor left coast women and might explain part of it. But
good grief, we're not talking Albania and Sweden here.

I've mulled the matter off and on for a few hours and it occurs to me
that maybe, just maybe our exposures to women engineers in particular
have been quite different. As in where you've churned your coin vs.
where I've gotten mine over the years. I've only spent a total of ten
years working for large entities, six as a Navy employee back when
woman engineers simply didn't exist for all practical purposes, then
much later I did four with the DuPont central engineering center in the
mid-1980s. Three of the four woman engineers I've met and cited were
DuPont employees, the fourth was a short-time part timer I ran into on
a specific small-biz project whose real job was with some large firm or
another.

Except for the six I did with the Navy, a gig I loved and was enormous
fun I've spent most of the rest of my career in smokestack small-medium
size busineses. I have allergic reactions to huge employers for a
number of reasons and generally avoid them. I despise corporate beige
with a purple passion

If I have it right you spent most of your career with the FCC, another
huge entity. Is it possible that women in engineering tend to gravitate
in large numbers to major entities where fair employment practices are
actually practiced and you've gotten involved with more of them than
I've ever managed to meet?

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

w3rv

Out here in the smokestacks of Delaware County PA

wrote:
wrote:

Phil Kane wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:11:41 GMT, robert casey wrote:


Actually, I wrote the following paragraph:

Perhaps what bothers some people the most about the code test
is that it isn't something most people already know. And it
isn't something that can be learned by reading a book, watching
a video, etc. It's a skill, not "book learning".

That makes it a real PITA to people who are good at book
learnin' and not so hot at motor skills.

Those are the same people who get As in Chemistry but Ds in Chem
Lab.....


Yup.

Then we have the Tau Beta Pi MEs drilling holes . .


My frat was I Phelta Thi....

I belonged to Signa Phi Nothing......

- Mike KB3EIA -

John Smith wrote:

Mike:

Yanno, back in the horse and buggy days--when the horse was king--same
thing--some waited with their horses for other to come to their senses
and get rid of their autos... it never happened...

I think this is very much the same where those so religiously and
historically tied to the past and what has always been will remain blind
to the fact that change is inevitable...

I know the question is not "if it will happen?" but rather, "how long is
this going to take?"

I feel like I am back at Kitty Hawk saying, "Now it is only a matter of
time, men WILL FLY THE EARTH AS EAGLES!" grin


Remember though, that there is no rule that disallows enjoyment of
heritage technology *and* more recent technology. (I hesitate to call
things like the internet, and digital modes as cutting edge - they are not)

I spend a lot of my hobby time doing psk31, using antenna design
programs, and I am starting to fool around with tube equipment as a lark
too. It's all good, man! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Michael:

Exactly... nothing is a "whole world onto itself."

There are just different points of views and interests/goals. How one
discusses the subjects eventually draws a picture of the authors
minds--some have only self-serving interests and goals in mind and are
not interested in anything else--some are willing to look at the bigger
picture, plan for the future and try to encompass everyone in the future
plans and goals...

Hey, it is a free country...

John

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
John Smith wrote:

Mike:

Yanno, back in the horse and buggy days--when the horse was
king--same thing--some waited with their horses for other to come to
their senses and get rid of their autos... it never happened...

I think this is very much the same where those so religiously and
historically tied to the past and what has always been will remain
blind to the fact that change is inevitable...

I know the question is not "if it will happen?" but rather, "how long
is this going to take?"

I feel like I am back at Kitty Hawk saying, "Now it is only a matter
of time, men WILL FLY THE EARTH AS EAGLES!" grin


Remember though, that there is no rule that disallows enjoyment of
heritage technology *and* more recent technology. (I hesitate to call
things like the internet, and digital modes as cutting edge - they are
not)

I spend a lot of my hobby time doing psk31, using antenna design
programs, and I am starting to fool around with tube equipment as a
lark too. It's all good, man! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -