Dee:

I am quite serious. Look over all the posts here. I see where most
here are rather anti-social, they don't have much ability to get along
well with "other children."

Frankly, I would be hard pressed to present the group here as a good
reason to enter the hobby of amateur radio and to enjoy an exchange of
spoken and mental ideas with others... I include myself in that
appraisal also, as I have been direct and to the point also... to do
less would seem a waste of time, both theirs and mine...

Indeed, some may even be able to see why the Chicken Band is
preferable some of the time... still, I am hoping the right people
can and will change all that--that is what we are really talking
about, and these guys know it, and fear it!

John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
nk.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc

Ugly. Really ugly. But who of us in the PCTA camp, realistically,
actually had themselves deluded into thinking the FCC would take
any
other path?

This "NPRM" is not "an opportunity to comment", it's an
announcement
about the way it's absolutely gonna be. Period. They'll go thru
the
NPRM motions only because the law sez they have to and they'll
patiently tap their fingers on the table until the deluge of
desparate
commnents is over then declare the POS they published today a done
deal.

I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest
"restructing"
will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more
then
back then the bands as usual.

I could care less about any of it at this late date because none
of it
has any effect at all on me. I've been allowed to beep, yak and
PSK my
buns off everywhere band edge to band edge ever since I did 13 wpm
fast
enough for the examiner to make me a General over a half century
ago.
With an annoying side trip in 1968 to do 20 wpm to reconfirm my
abilty
to beep good enough to retain my privs under that particular FCC
"restructuring" brainfart.

Game over, I'm opting out of any further participation in any of
this
BS. Seeya in the pileups on 14.020. Ya dunno how to do 14.020?
Good:
Less QRM for me. Eat yer heart out.


73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv


Rest assured the FCC is going to do whatever is easiest for THEM.

There may be a upward surge of new "Ultra Lite Extra's" (Did I
really say that???).....and in a short time the bands will still
sound deserted.

There is a lot more at work here then just dropping CW.

Check out the bands lately? Where are all those new "light" hams
anyway? Danged if I can find them.

All you that gloat over losing one of the glues that hold/held ham
radio together will rue this day. And no I'm not a stuck in the
mud, cw only operator, I just see the hand writing on the wall.

Lennie is happy now. He can sneak over to a test session and get
his General......

Dan/W4NTI

Dollars to donuts that he comes up with another excuse not to.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Jim:

Well friend, you have been isolated.

Out here in the real world kids are cussing like sailors in grade
school, 11 year old girls are actively seeking to become pregnant,
drugs are much more prevalent than ever in the 60's and 70's.

The only areas where cussing is not seen is churches...

Whether you like it or not reality has changed...

You have hidden from the real world on 160m for far too long, and
since you have not joined the real world, the real world now comes to
you...

Get over it, for at least the near future, things are NOT going the
way most of us like--the answer to this is not setting aside 160m for
ancient old men to hide in...

John


Hello, John

Not isolated; simply realistic. We are either going to learn to live
together or we will die together.

I haven't been on 160 meters since 1966.

You are correct about the 11 year olds. We've had something like 100
shootings in Rochester so far this year.

May I assume from your post that you like the brave new world .... ?

I'm not for forcing folks to use cw; I'm simply pointing out that many folks
are ignoring certain facts.

Yep, I'm connected on 3 megabaud DSL. I can send a picture so fast .... so
long as something else (in this case a camera) put the information in the
computer first. Hey, I can cut and paste and forward very easily.

I've caught kids making mistakes, even with a calculator, when making
change. One kid had to get the manager to figure it out when she punched a
button showing I paid exact change (no, I gave her a twenty for a purchase a
bit over $12.00). I watched the manager show her how to fix it. Um ...
$21.00? No, I don't think so. He pushed a few more buttons. Over $32.00?

I finally suggested that he clear the whole thing and try again. Meanwhile,
I knew exactly what my change should have been. Another kid at the pharmacy
one time made the same error. He ran it on a calculator and gave me my
change. I gave him a penny and told him to hold on to it as his drawer was
going to be short one cent (assuming he didn't screw up another order in a
different column).

Obviously, you feel that not only should folks not learn The Calculus, they
shouldn't even have to add and subtract since a calculator can do that for
them.

More jobs for India and China.

Many thanks, however, for a good chuckle. Enjoy life whilst there is
anything left after Bush spent it all and everyone is clueless :))


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...


wrote:
wrote:

I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this
latest "restructing"
will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more
then
back then the bands as usual.

Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse.

Yep.

Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and
Restructuring...

I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and
obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those
technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact
same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't
true then.

Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur
allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The
REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So
where were all those engineering-types then?

People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't
get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue
that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the
REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the
argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and
"shoot skip", nothing more.

I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for
Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band
subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that
much.

The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the
non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of
those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only
one or two license classes.

When that is done we can remove all references to training and
technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97.
Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe
re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96?

Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so
those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can
operate legally...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ


Steve,

So far (cross fingers) cw is legal *anywhere* in the ham bands (other
than,
I believe, 60 meters) so long as one's license class permits
transmitting.

I have, in the past, found it an excellent way of confounding someone
who
jumps on me (of course, that was when all amateurs had some ability on
cw -
a minimum of 13 words per minute on hf in the voice bands). Funny thing
how
Mike, W2OY's killerwatt couldn't touch my 75 watts LOL. Even funnier
was
the way his blood pressure was going up whilst I continued a nice
contact
with Ohio despite his best efforts. Both the other guy and I could
handle
cw quite well. After a number of "qrq" sent back and fourth, we were
humming along at a nice rate, neither pushing speed limits nor plodding
along. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 to 45 words per
minute
and we continued for a good half hour more. Every now and then, I'd
open
the rx bandwidth to hear Mike screaming "take those toys down into the
cw
band". Sure, Mike, just don't hold your breath. snort



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


So that's why Mike was up on his tower.....putting up a better 3.805
antenna...hi.

Dan/W4NTI


Dan,

All kidding aside, I heard he had a heart attack whilst on his tower way
back when and that is when he cashed in his chips.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

I suppose it is sad from a sentimental point of view.

I'll be writing comments to the FCC - in support of the proposal.

73,
Dana K6JQ

Dee Flint wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message
...

Dee:

You are correct about one thing, those who are in danger of having their
egos deflated, of being forced to wakeup, those realizing they are not
going to be allowed to "be special" anymore are going to scream like pigs
and look for some way to divert the fixes which are coming this way...

John



I find it difficult to see how extracted that concept from what I said.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

It came to him via the voices in his head.

Jim Hampton wrote:

I've caught kids making mistakes, even with a calculator, when making
change. One kid had to get the manager to figure it out when she punched a
button showing I paid exact change (no, I gave her a twenty for a purchase a
bit over $12.00). I watched the manager show her how to fix it. Um ...
$21.00? No, I don't think so. He pushed a few more buttons. Over $32.00?

I finally suggested that he clear the whole thing and try again. Meanwhile,
I knew exactly what my change should have been. Another kid at the pharmacy
one time made the same error. He ran it on a calculator and gave me my
change. I gave him a penny and told him to hold on to it as his drawer was
going to be short one cent (assuming he didn't screw up another order in a
different column).

The difference between the older and newer generation is, if the new
generation does calculations by long hand, then use a calculator to see
if their cyphering was correct. The older generation cyphers on a
calculator, the does it by long hand to see if the calculator is correct.

Jim:

No. You make one big mistake if you think I asked for all these
changes, or for that matter, find some easy to tolerate. Dumpsters
full of aborted fetuses, 14 year old child prostitutes, gangs of
murderous thug teenagers, homeless people in masses, child molesters
demanding rights, etc, etc...--looks kind of like a third world
country if you ask me...

CW is a simple thing for me. I never did like it, and still bitched I
had to learn it to get a decent license!

I have passed a 20 WPM test--and managed NEVER to use it on the bands,
if you catch me on CW it will be a code reader/keyboard handling my
key--I hate the sound of morse in my ears, I type 80+ words a
minute--and can talk more words than both those two sums combined, a
minute! Which, I vastly prefer to do (I prefer women to chat with
too--you don't have a 45-55 year old sister do ya
evil-glint-in-eye?)

I simply want more people on am/ssb phone to chat with, as it stands
now you will generally only catch me chatting with the aussie gals on
HF--if not there, then on CB...

In fact, because of the lack of interesting and/or younger people on
the bands, I have been on msn chat, yahoo messenger, IRC, etc, etc
lately, and of course--here in the newsgroups...

One thing I am positive of, amateur radio needs to change just to get
me back, let alone new guys/gals into the hobby...

I can't say I don't like arguing, but my real goal is a change here.

My bark is much worse than my bite, I am here for the long haul (where
they haul my coffin off that is, and I'd sooner not be in it!!! But,
really can't promise I will be able to pull that trick off... grin)

I am actually a friendly type--I don't expect you to be able to tell
from our exchanges here... ROFLOL!!!

We march on and hold a stiff upper lip--it'll all work out...

John


"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Jim:

Well friend, you have been isolated.

Out here in the real world kids are cussing like sailors in grade
school, 11 year old girls are actively seeking to become pregnant,
drugs are much more prevalent than ever in the 60's and 70's.

The only areas where cussing is not seen is churches...

Whether you like it or not reality has changed...

You have hidden from the real world on 160m for far too long, and
since you have not joined the real world, the real world now comes
to
you...

Get over it, for at least the near future, things are NOT going the
way most of us like--the answer to this is not setting aside 160m
for
ancient old men to hide in...

John


Hello, John

Not isolated; simply realistic. We are either going to learn to
live
together or we will die together.

I haven't been on 160 meters since 1966.

You are correct about the 11 year olds. We've had something like
100
shootings in Rochester so far this year.

May I assume from your post that you like the brave new world .... ?

I'm not for forcing folks to use cw; I'm simply pointing out that
many folks
are ignoring certain facts.

Yep, I'm connected on 3 megabaud DSL. I can send a picture so fast
.... so
long as something else (in this case a camera) put the information
in the
computer first. Hey, I can cut and paste and forward very easily.

I've caught kids making mistakes, even with a calculator, when
making
change. One kid had to get the manager to figure it out when she
punched a
button showing I paid exact change (no, I gave her a twenty for a
purchase a
bit over $12.00). I watched the manager show her how to fix it. Um
...
$21.00? No, I don't think so. He pushed a few more buttons. Over
$32.00?

I finally suggested that he clear the whole thing and try again.
Meanwhile,
I knew exactly what my change should have been. Another kid at the
pharmacy
one time made the same error. He ran it on a calculator and gave me
my
change. I gave him a penny and told him to hold on to it as his
drawer was
going to be short one cent (assuming he didn't screw up another
order in a
different column).

Obviously, you feel that not only should folks not learn The
Calculus, they
shouldn't even have to add and subtract since a calculator can do
that for
them.

More jobs for India and China.

Many thanks, however, for a good chuckle. Enjoy life whilst there
is
anything left after Bush spent it all and everyone is clueless :))


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Dee:

Yes, you are indeed a cut above most I have run across, your text
reflects that well, what is your engineering degree in?

I have a BS in EE and a MS in CS... I keep threatening to complete my
doctorate--just so I can make 'em call me "Dr. Smith" innocent-look

I have been called a software engineer frequently--but I am just a
white hacker at heart... in fact, some can still remember when I was
just a barefoot kid with holes in the knees of my blue jeans and a
curiosity which dove 'em all nuts!

John

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Dee:

You have done it again.

Naturally (being a stupid male), I expect women to be "emotion
based", and you toss me a curve and a simple prediction--totally
devoid of feelings... grin

John


All you have to do is keep in mind that I am an engineer.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Dee:

Yes, you are indeed a cut above most I have run across, your text reflects
that well, what is your engineering degree in?

I have a BS in EE and a MS in CS... I keep threatening to complete my
doctorate--just so I can make 'em call me "Dr. Smith" innocent-look

I have been called a software engineer frequently--but I am just a white
hacker at heart... in fact, some can still remember when I was just a
barefoot kid with holes in the knees of my blue jeans and a curiosity
which dove 'em all nuts!

John


My degree is in Aerospace Engineering. However, I now work in the
automotive industry since the aerospace industry took a major slump a few
years ago.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

commander buzzoff:

.... those voices tell me you are a bad man, a very, very bad man...

ROFLOL!!!

John

"Cmdr Buzz Corey" wrote in message
...
Dee Flint wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message
...

Dee:

You are correct about one thing, those who are in danger of having
their egos deflated, of being forced to wakeup, those realizing
they are not going to be allowed to "be special" anymore are going
to scream like pigs and look for some way to divert the fixes which
are coming this way...

John



I find it difficult to see how extracted that concept from what I
said.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

It came to him via the voices in his head.