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A Sad Day
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wrote in message
oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY Looks like it's time to write more letter. To the FCC? Nope, to your local elected officials! All it takes is to get the attention of someone who has a say in the FCC's budget and is willing to make an inquiry re. "this Morse code thing." Don't let this discourage you, the battle for the integrity of the US ARS is far from over. Remember the vanity-call system and how it came about. -- Vy 73 de Bert WA2SI FISTS #9384/CC #1736 QRP ARCI #11782 |
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Finally, the FCC has seen the light of day.
Allowing a few senile old men to kill amateur radio with their moth-ridden egos was too much to sit by watching. Apparently, someone else also noticed. This may be a hint that a new dawn may be rising on amateur radio and some new energetic fellows may be allowed to step in and move amateur radio from the stoneage. I think all knew, it was only a matter of time. I just expected more would have to fall to death by old age before this would happen, but I knew time was close. Still, keep your fingers crossed, a few old "girly-boy" old hams bit*hing like old women can hold back true advancement. This does prophesize the future, however, a few years may still need to pass before this is finally realized. John wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY |
wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY Well now we will see if the Techs are paying attention. If they are, we should (but I bet we won't) see a major increase in people taking element 3 over the next several months as the FCC should have this wrapped up before their CSCEs expire. And now we'll see how many people have been "kept out by the Morse code". Of course we'll need to monitor over several years to see if their is a trend. A few months won't tell us a thing. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY Note also that the FCC took what I always considered the most likely course on this issue and that was to simply drop the requirement, assuming that this NPRM is implemented. If people had not tried to overhaul the entire system in their various (18) petitions, this most likely would have happened over a year ago. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Finally, the FCC has seen the light of day. Allowing a few senile old men to kill amateur radio with their moth-ridden egos was too much to sit by watching. Apparently, someone else also noticed. This may be a hint that a new dawn may be rising on amateur radio and some new energetic fellows may be allowed to step in and move amateur radio from the stoneage. I think all knew, it was only a matter of time. I just expected more would have to fall to death by old age before this would happen, but I knew time was close. Still, keep your fingers crossed, a few old "girly-boy" old hams bit*hing like old women can hold back true advancement. This does prophesize the future, however, a few years may still need to pass before this is finally realized. John Well we'll have to wait and see. Personally I predict a flurry of upgrades but no sustained growth. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Dee:
Although we have differences in our thoughts and evaluation of this whole situation, let us both hope you are wrong--dear. We need some good news for a change! Amateur radio and a bright future for it is bigger than you and I put together, indeed, it is more important than all of us here. Warmest regards, John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Finally, the FCC has seen the light of day. Allowing a few senile old men to kill amateur radio with their moth-ridden egos was too much to sit by watching. Apparently, someone else also noticed. This may be a hint that a new dawn may be rising on amateur radio and some new energetic fellows may be allowed to step in and move amateur radio from the stoneage. I think all knew, it was only a matter of time. I just expected more would have to fall to death by old age before this would happen, but I knew time was close. Still, keep your fingers crossed, a few old "girly-boy" old hams bit*hing like old women can hold back true advancement. This does prophesize the future, however, a few years may still need to pass before this is finally realized. John Well we'll have to wait and see. Personally I predict a flurry of upgrades but no sustained growth. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Although we have differences in our thoughts and evaluation of this whole situation, let us both hope you are wrong--dear. We need some good news for a change! Amateur radio and a bright future for it is bigger than you and I put together, indeed, it is more important than all of us here. Warmest regards, John "Dee I see a fine future for amateur radio but I also see a stabilization of numbers just as is occuring in our population growth and all the other activities to which I belong. The news of the FCC action and the action itself will have little to no noticeable impact. Ham radio would continue to develop either way. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Dee:
If you would chart developments and advancements in every technical field--amateur radio would come in last; frankly, I would doubt ones mental abilities who would even move in the direction of challenging that statement. A religious devotion to cw and a real "good old boys club" has damaged amateur radio for decades. Personalities which have an "anti-social bent" have been in control here far too long, calling them just "eccentric" is far too kind. Let us hope that decades of damage which has been done can be repaired quickly by the young men I am wishing and hoping to be here with us. Too often, tunnel vision only allows us to see that which we wish to see, but none can deny amateur radio has been in decline for decades--there is some reason for that. Now we need to encourage bright young men from industry here, so that we may mass produce cheap equipment and make amateur radio easy to step into. Hopefully, china and other developing countries will find it profitable and worth doing, to mass produce amateur equipment in a flowing abundance. Hopefully, soon, in the future the bands will be so congested calls are made for the bands to be expanded to accommodate all the hams needing bandwidth. A boom like that which CB experienced in the 70's would be most desirable, however, I do realize this is probably too much to even hope for. As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in "advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be key in getting the numbers we need at that time. Warmest regards, John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Although we have differences in our thoughts and evaluation of this whole situation, let us both hope you are wrong--dear. We need some good news for a change! Amateur radio and a bright future for it is bigger than you and I put together, indeed, it is more important than all of us here. Warmest regards, John "Dee I see a fine future for amateur radio but I also see a stabilization of numbers just as is occuring in our population growth and all the other activities to which I belong. The news of the FCC action and the action itself will have little to no noticeable impact. Ham radio would continue to develop either way. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
... wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY Well now we will see if the Techs are paying attention. If they are, we should (but I bet we won't) see a major increase in people taking element 3 over the next several months as the FCC should have this wrapped up before their CSCEs expire. And now we'll see how many people have been "kept out by the Morse code". Of course we'll need to monitor over several years to see if their is a trend. A few months won't tell us a thing. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE I am a TechPlus who never upgraded to General, or any other class. There are some considerations that may set me apart from the broad (no pun intended) population of the ARS: I am a female I have a husband who is a General Class (i.e., not sure how many licensees are spouses to each other)--and I could, technically, get on HF General Class freqs any time I wanted I enjoy simple ragchewing and emergency communications at a local level WHEN I am even "hooked up" I enjoy the "quiet" mode of communicating--HF makes way too much noise There's probably some other differentiating items, and there may be no correlation at all. Kim W5TIT ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Dee Flint wrote: wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY Well now we will see if the Techs are paying attention. If they are, we should (but I bet we won't) see a major increase in people taking element 3 over the next several months as the FCC should have this wrapped up before their CSCEs expire. while I hope you areright on the timeline I personaly will likely wait till it is done, unles my partner get to to point of being rady to take her tech test And now we'll see how many people have been "kept out by the Morse code". Of course we'll need to monitor over several years to see if their is a trend. A few months won't tell us a thing. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Kim" wrote in message ... "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY Well now we will see if the Techs are paying attention. If they are, we should (but I bet we won't) see a major increase in people taking element 3 over the next several months as the FCC should have this wrapped up before their CSCEs expire. And now we'll see how many people have been "kept out by the Morse code". Of course we'll need to monitor over several years to see if their is a trend. A few months won't tell us a thing. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE I am a TechPlus who never upgraded to General, or any other class. There are some considerations that may set me apart from the broad (no pun intended) population of the ARS: I am a female I have a husband who is a General Class (i.e., not sure how many licensees are spouses to each other)--and I could, technically, get on HF General Class freqs any time I wanted I enjoy simple ragchewing and emergency communications at a local level WHEN I am even "hooked up" I enjoy the "quiet" mode of communicating--HF makes way too much noise There's probably some other differentiating items, and there may be no correlation at all. Kim W5TIT Actually Kim, it supports the point of view that I've had all along. Namely that, for the most part, those who wanted to upgrade did so despite the Morse code and those who didn't upgrade were getting what they wanted out of ham radio with their current license level. Have you ever got involved with the local VHF traffic nets? This may or may not be something that you would enjoy. I personally enjoy HF and working DX (especially if I'm lucky enough to get someone who wants to ragchew). My favorite band has always been 40m despite the issue with the foreign broadcasters in our voice portion. The morning (right around dawn) I worked New Zealand on 40m CW really started my day off with a bang. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Kim:
I think a woman "taking a free ride" on her husbands license are probably not a significant number to really thwart the benefits which are possible. Let's face it, marriage too is becoming a thing of the past, and certainly is no longer a real lifetime commitment for the younger generations. Gay marriage is probably the final nail in that coffin. The younger women of today are a different breed and don't want to be seen as "getting something for nothing." (which might imply, at least to some, that they are less able or intelligent) I would venture a guess that at least half of under 35 year old women would never stand for a free ride on their husbands license--choosing to make a point they "have what it takes." (today's women are much more competitive) I feel the dropping of CW will open this hobby up to these women. Even if they are only dating a guy which is in amateur radio, it may be enough to prompt them into studying and grabbing a license of their own--especially if the boyfriend is smart enough to set up a competitive spirit and invoke the challenge. grin John "Kim" wrote in message ... "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY Well now we will see if the Techs are paying attention. If they are, we should (but I bet we won't) see a major increase in people taking element 3 over the next several months as the FCC should have this wrapped up before their CSCEs expire. And now we'll see how many people have been "kept out by the Morse code". Of course we'll need to monitor over several years to see if their is a trend. A few months won't tell us a thing. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE I am a TechPlus who never upgraded to General, or any other class. There are some considerations that may set me apart from the broad (no pun intended) population of the ARS: I am a female I have a husband who is a General Class (i.e., not sure how many licensees are spouses to each other)--and I could, technically, get on HF General Class freqs any time I wanted I enjoy simple ragchewing and emergency communications at a local level WHEN I am even "hooked up" I enjoy the "quiet" mode of communicating--HF makes way too much noise There's probably some other differentiating items, and there may be no correlation at all. Kim W5TIT ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
... "Kim" wrote in message ... I am a TechPlus who never upgraded to General, or any other class. There are some considerations that may set me apart from the broad (no pun intended) population of the ARS: I am a female I have a husband who is a General Class (i.e., not sure how many licensees are spouses to each other)--and I could, technically, get on HF General Class freqs any time I wanted I enjoy simple ragchewing and emergency communications at a local level WHEN I am even "hooked up" I enjoy the "quiet" mode of communicating--HF makes way too much noise There's probably some other differentiating items, and there may be no correlation at all. Kim W5TIT Actually Kim, it supports the point of view that I've had all along. Namely that, for the most part, those who wanted to upgrade did so despite the Morse code and those who didn't upgrade were getting what they wanted out of ham radio with their current license level. Have you ever got involved with the local VHF traffic nets? This may or may not be something that you would enjoy. Absolutely. I've been Net Control, Asst Net Control and generally involved with Traffic--back some time ago and only steadily for about six months on the local scene. However, I served as Net Control for Navy MARS for about a year and was a participant in Navy MARS for about 2 1/2 years. I really enjoyed the traffic nets. Then, while I was Hunt County ARES Emergency Coordinator, and a founder of a local emergency service group, we had "traffic" at the beginning of every net. I personally enjoy HF and working DX (especially if I'm lucky enough to get someone who wants to ragchew). My favorite band has always been 40m despite the issue with the foreign broadcasters in our voice portion. The morning (right around dawn) I worked New Zealand on 40m CW really started my day off with a bang. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Well, I should clarify. I adore HF operation, contesting when I happen upon it, and ragchewing. However, as a matter of regular operation, VHF is my freqs of choice. But, I do really enjoy HF. When we had radios hooked up, the HF radio was always on in the office, usually at 28.400 so we could listen there for any signals. I think that is what burned me out on the noise. When Cliff would turn it off, I would feel like a million pounds had been lifted! (I also can't stand the "wind" noise in A/C and air ventilation devices). I'd almost rather broil than have A/C on when it is noisy, or where I can hear it running. OH, and the tone of CW sends me just about into a spiral after about 5 minutes of it. ANY droning, including heavy metal guitars, and I am just a basket case...LOL Kim W5TIT ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
wrote: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc Ugly. Really ugly. But who of us in the PCTA camp, realistically, actually had themselves deluded into thinking the FCC would take any other path? This "NPRM" is not "an opportunity to comment", it's an announcement about the way it's absolutely gonna be. Period. They'll go thru the NPRM motions only because the law sez they have to and they'll patiently tap their fingers on the table until the deluge of desparate commnents is over then declare the POS they published today a done deal. I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. I could care less about any of it at this late date because none of it has any effect at all on me. I've been allowed to beep, yak and PSK my buns off everywhere band edge to band edge ever since I did 13 wpm fast enough for the examiner to make me a General over a half century ago. With an annoying side trip in 1968 to do 20 wpm to reconfirm my abilty to beep good enough to retain my privs under that particular FCC "restructuring" brainfart. Game over, I'm opting out of any further participation in any of this BS. Seeya in the pileups on 14.020. Ya dunno how to do 14.020? Good: Less QRM for me. Eat yer heart out. 73 de Jim, N2EY w3rv |
In one way, I can picture it being a "sad day." One of the posts here
pointed out this possibility to me. For decades now a few of the guys (hams) here in my local area have terrorized CB'ers and freebanders. Invoking the FCC to send countless notices and confiscate equip and linears on a quite frequent basis. And, even two truck stops in the area have been favorite "hunting grounds" for these guys. Can you imagine the retaliation which is going to be spun against those hams which have been so inclined? The term "repaid in spades" occurs to me. I imagine some may forsake the hobby for other pursuits, or move to another area! Thank gawd I have always had enough common sense to practice the "good neighbor policy!" grin John wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY |
wrote:
wrote: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc Ugly. Really ugly. But who of us in the PCTA camp, realistically, actually had themselves deluded into thinking the FCC would take any other path? As I often said in the past 5 years, when FCC wrote that code testing served no regulatory purpose other than treaty compliance, the deal was essentially done. The amazing thing was that it's taken two years to get this far. This "NPRM" is not "an opportunity to comment", it's an announcement about the way it's absolutely gonna be. Period. They'll go thru the NPRM motions only because the law sez they have to and they'll patiently tap their fingers on the table until the deluge of desparate commnents is over then declare the POS they published today a done deal. I'll comment, like always. I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Got my antenna back up last night (had to take it down Sunday for the new siding to go on the house). 40 was full of CW signals. Nice chat with a VE2 on 7031. Life is good. I could care less about any of it at this late date because none of it has any effect at all on me. I've been allowed to beep, yak and PSK my buns off everywhere band edge to band edge ever since I did 13 wpm fast enough for the examiner to make me a General over a half century ago. With an annoying side trip in 1968 to do 20 wpm to reconfirm my abilty to beep good enough to retain my privs under that particular FCC "restructuring" brainfart. Exactly. Game over, I'm opting out of any further participation in any of this BS. Seeya in the pileups on 14.020. Ya dunno how to do 14.020? Good: Less QRM for me. Eat yer heart out. bwaahaahaa 73 de Jim, N2EY |
wrote: wrote: I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Yep. Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and Restructuring... I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't true then. Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So where were all those engineering-types then? People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and "shoot skip", nothing more. I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that much. The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only one or two license classes. When that is done we can remove all references to training and technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97. Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96? Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can operate legally...?!?! 73 Steve, K4YZ |
I agree. With the congestion on CB and there being only 40 chans for
all the truck drivers, four wheelers, base stations and freebanders, it is a mess. More bandwidth has been needed for over a decade. Most do want to chat with others in other countries, "skip" will be the mode of the day on HF--at least I'd imagine that to be the case. However, I have never seen a real case of where what actually happens is able to be "prophesized" accurately before the actual situation--it will be interesting to watch. John "K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... wrote: wrote: I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Yep. Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and Restructuring... I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't true then. Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So where were all those engineering-types then? People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and "shoot skip", nothing more. I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that much. The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only one or two license classes. When that is done we can remove all references to training and technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97. Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96? Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can operate legally...?!?! 73 Steve, K4YZ |
K4YZ wrote: wrote: wrote: I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Yep. Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and Restructuring... I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't true then. Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So where were all those engineering-types then? People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and "shoot skip", nothing more. I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that much. The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only one or two license classes. When that is done we can remove all references to training and technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97. Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96? Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can operate legally...?!?! always with the obsessive attacks steve wel you can't spoil a day like this for me 73 Steve, K4YZ |
wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY I disagree Jim. Code has been at 5 WPM for some time now. That's just about a de-facto elimination of the same as I have yet to have a person come thru my classes who could not get 5 WPM. |
wrote in message oups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc 73 de Jim, N2EY Hello, Jim Is the glass half empty or half full? I look at it this way: we will always know where to head for an interesting chat with someone knowlegeable. We'll know where to head to avoid profanity. We'll know where to head to avoid interference and folks screaming "AUDIOOOOOOO"/ We'll head for the cw bands. ;) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
From: Leo on Jul 20, 7:03 pm
wrote http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc It is sad, inasmuch as this definitely represents a dramatic change to the structure of Amateur Radio in the US - Morse has been an integral part of the hobby for as long as most anyone living can remember. At least since 1913...a mere 92 years. :-) [we await the Terrible Hue and Cry to be raised, first on QRZ.com then all over in here as the MMM* rise up in anger and dismay at the Falling of the Sky! Sound the Alarum!] Surprisingly, there is no impetus to change the technical content of the exams - I would have bet on that one! Considering a two-year period and EIGHTEEN proposals sitting around, I think that would have been out of the question in DC. The FCC noted (for WT Docket 05-235) that the VEC Question Pool Committee makes up the questions. Further, under U.S. regulations, the FCC specifies only a MINIMUM of ten times the number of required questions per class. The VEC QPC is under NO obligation to limit the Pool limit to 10. Given the electronic transfer capability of the VEC QPC Pool and the ubiquity of the modern PC and Internet, the number of questions could have been at least 100 times the minimum required number of questions for U.S. examinees. "Difficulty" is a matter for the VEC QPC, themselves made up ONLY of licensed radio amateurs. There are some good things in the NPRM as well, though - the massive proposals for upgrading hundreds of thousands of current licensees to the next higher license class did not survive. This topic seemed to polarize folks as much (or more than!) the Morse issue itself. Judging by the massive outpouring of grief/anger/dismay/ etc. on www.qrz.com this morning, the "polarization" seems very focussed on morse code testing. [31 pages of messages there by mid-morning on the 21st of July...:-) ] By the latter part of 2010, the issue will be moot on "auto-upgrades" of classes. The Technician Plus, Novice, and Advanced classes will HAVE to disappear...a result of the "Restructuring" Report and Order of late 1999 that took effect in mid-2000. By the way, as of 1200 UTC on 21 July 2005, the number of "lower-class" Technician and Technician Plus class licensees in the USA were 349,859 or 48.46% of the total individual licensees (722,023). In one year's time, the FCC granted 16,085 NEW amateur radio licenses but 19,072 licenses were expired. Net gain of -2,987 in 12 months, a trend that has existed since the peak in July 2003. However, Morse has too big a following to just disappear from the bands completely - it will be there for many years to come! Yes, and the stirring tales of daring-doo by "CW", saving lives and protecting the nation agains terrorists will always be part of the mythology! :-) Some 47 years ago the FCC "took away" the U.S. ham band called "11 meters" and reassigned it to the new-fangled Class C and D Citizens Band. Some of today's hams weren't even born yet but they are "mad as hell [about that] and can't take it anymore!" [a la the famous "Network" rant in the movie by actor Peter Finch (SK)] About the only thing "lost" was the TITLES and DISTINCTION of being part of the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society, a sort of quasi-royal status assumed by those few who were able to make it through 13 and 20 WPM. They feel they "own" the "rights" to the "titles" and those should be kept in perpetuity...naturally to show the "greatness" of these MMMs at "pioneering the airwaves." :-) [none of those hams in here were alive in those pioneer days but they apparently have laid claim to that "land," "fief," and all "titles!" :-) ] The feeling here in Canada is that we are probably weeks away from a similar announcement......one which, in all probability, will mirror the US NPRM very closely. As long as British Columbia is still the production home of "Stargate," "Stargate Atlantis," and "Battlestar Galactica," I will not comment on what Canada does or should do. :-) The U.S. NPRM has NO great changes in U.S. amateur radio regulations other than the pending removal of Test Element 1 (morse code test). That's about as simple a law change as possible. The emotional catastrophe of Title/Status/Distinction/etc. loss to the MMM is at least an order of magnitude above the largest megatonage special weapon! The "fall-out" has begun...some will not survive the "radio-ation." We'll soon see! The writing on the wall happened in Switzerland two years ago with the revision of S25 at WRC-03...with the consent and input of the IARU and a few others. The ARRL was opposed to that then...but now try to spin that they were "in support." shrug Modernization will continue despite what the "boyz in da ham hood" think... 73, Leo Best regards, * MMM = Mighty Macho Morsemen, hee-rows of the hamways. |
"Dee Flint" wrote in message ... Actually Kim, it supports the point of view that I've had all along. Namely that, for the most part, those who wanted to upgrade did so despite the Morse code and those who didn't upgrade were getting what they wanted out of ham radio with their current license level. Have you ever got involved with the local VHF traffic nets? This may or may not be something that you would enjoy. I personally enjoy HF and working DX (especially if I'm lucky enough to get someone who wants to ragchew). My favorite band has always been 40m despite the issue with the foreign broadcasters in our voice portion. The morning (right around dawn) I worked New Zealand on 40m CW really started my day off with a bang. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Hello, Dee Funny thing, that is what I used to love. Even trying out Spanish (when I could speak a bit) for a half an hour with a Portugese station (I told him I knew he spoke Portugese, but did he speak any Spanish as he knew little English - he did and we had some fun). I used to chat for hours on end with VK2NP, Norm, in Brisbane Australia via teletype (ah the sound of those old clanking machines). He didn't even know until about the fourth QSO that I was not using the tape reader. At a leisurely 60 words per minute, I had to wait for the mechanical beast to allow the key to depress and I kept it busy at full tilt (except when sending such goodies as Santa Claus etc. - the old ascii - oops baudot - 'graphics' LOL). The 100 word per minute machines in the comm center were something else. My best burst speed was around 92 words per minute and I could never have fooled anyone. Too bad so many spend hours arguing whilst there is a lot of fun to be had on the air ;) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
"K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... wrote: wrote: I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Yep. Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and Restructuring... I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't true then. Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So where were all those engineering-types then? People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and "shoot skip", nothing more. I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that much. The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only one or two license classes. When that is done we can remove all references to training and technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97. Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96? Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can operate legally...?!?! 73 Steve, K4YZ Steve, So far (cross fingers) cw is legal *anywhere* in the ham bands (other than, I believe, 60 meters) so long as one's license class permits transmitting. I have, in the past, found it an excellent way of confounding someone who jumps on me (of course, that was when all amateurs had some ability on cw - a minimum of 13 words per minute on hf in the voice bands). Funny thing how Mike, W2OY's killerwatt couldn't touch my 75 watts LOL. Even funnier was the way his blood pressure was going up whilst I continued a nice contact with Ohio despite his best efforts. Both the other guy and I could handle cw quite well. After a number of "qrq" sent back and fourth, we were humming along at a nice rate, neither pushing speed limits nor plodding along. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 to 45 words per minute and we continued for a good half hour more. Every now and then, I'd open the rx bandwidth to hear Mike screaming "take those toys down into the cw band". Sure, Mike, just don't hold your breath. snort 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
OMG:
I never thought about that, with the great influx of all these new hams firing up their keys and going CW on us, phone might be in danger!!! grin John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... wrote: wrote: I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Yep. Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and Restructuring... I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't true then. Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So where were all those engineering-types then? People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and "shoot skip", nothing more. I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that much. The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only one or two license classes. When that is done we can remove all references to training and technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97. Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96? Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can operate legally...?!?! 73 Steve, K4YZ Steve, So far (cross fingers) cw is legal *anywhere* in the ham bands (other than, I believe, 60 meters) so long as one's license class permits transmitting. I have, in the past, found it an excellent way of confounding someone who jumps on me (of course, that was when all amateurs had some ability on cw - a minimum of 13 words per minute on hf in the voice bands). Funny thing how Mike, W2OY's killerwatt couldn't touch my 75 watts LOL. Even funnier was the way his blood pressure was going up whilst I continued a nice contact with Ohio despite his best efforts. Both the other guy and I could handle cw quite well. After a number of "qrq" sent back and fourth, we were humming along at a nice rate, neither pushing speed limits nor plodding along. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 to 45 words per minute and we continued for a good half hour more. Every now and then, I'd open the rx bandwidth to hear Mike screaming "take those toys down into the cw band". Sure, Mike, just don't hold your breath. snort 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
From: Dee Flint on Jul 20, 9:16 pm
wrote in message roups.com... http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc Well now we will see if the Techs are paying attention. As of 1200 UTC on 21 July 2005, there were 349,859 of them... That's the total of Technician and Technician Plus classes in the USA...48.46% of all individual amateur radio licensees. If they are, we should (but I bet we won't) see a major increase in people taking element 3 over the next several months as the FCC should have this wrapped up before their CSCEs expire. There are a third of a million CSCEs outstanding?!? Outstanding! And now we'll see how many people have been "kept out by the Morse code". "Kept out of WHAT?" :-) Radio? No. Had the NO-CODE-TEST Technician class not been created 14 years ago, the present number of U.S. amateur radio licensees would have DROPPED by at least 200,000. Of course we'll need to monitor over several years to see if their is a trend. A few months won't tell us a thing. WT Docket 05-235 has to be published in the Federal Register first...with at least 75 days of Comments/Replies to Comments following, then a (long?) wait for the Report and Order. A "trend?!?" The total number of U.S. amateur radio licensees has been dropping about three thousand per year since the peak of July 2003. Expirations (of all classes) has exceeded the number of NEW licensees. Novice class licensee totals have been dropping steadily for almost two decades. The total of Technician and Technician Plus classes is at 48.46% of all individual licensees and might hit 50% by the end of 2005. "Their [sic] IS a trend!" It's been there all along. New licensees are NOT attracted by the majestic nobility and sanctity of morse code as much as you'd like to think. The old ways are dying...not quickly, but inexorably. Embrace the NEW, not the old. RADIO...all of it...has been in a constant transition in the 52+ years I've been in it...and I started in it without any license, certainly not requiring any morsemanship skills. |
John Smith wrote:
Dee: If you would chart developments and advancements in every technical field--amateur radio would come in last; frankly, I would doubt ones mental abilities who would even move in the direction of challenging that statement. A religious devotion to cw and a real "good old boys club" has damaged amateur radio for decades. Personalities which have an "anti-social bent" have been in control here far too long, calling them just "eccentric" is far too kind. Let us hope that decades of damage which has been done can be repaired quickly by the young men I am wishing and hoping to be here with us. Too often, tunnel vision only allows us to see that which we wish to see, but none can deny amateur radio has been in decline for decades--there is some reason for that. Now we need to encourage bright young men from industry here, so that we may mass produce cheap equipment and make amateur radio easy to step into. Hopefully, china and other developing countries will find it profitable and worth doing, to mass produce amateur equipment in a flowing abundance. Hopefully, soon, in the future the bands will be so congested calls are made for the bands to be expanded to accommodate all the hams needing bandwidth. A boom like that which CB experienced in the 70's would be most desirable, however, I do realize this is probably too much to even hope for. As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in "advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be key in getting the numbers we need at that time. Warmest regards, John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: Although we have differences in our thoughts and evaluation of this whole situation, let us both hope you are wrong--dear. We need some good news for a change! Amateur radio and a bright future for it is bigger than you and I put together, indeed, it is more important than all of us here. Warmest regards, John "Dee I see a fine future for amateur radio but I also see a stabilization of numbers just as is occuring in our population growth and all the other activities to which I belong. The news of the FCC action and the action itself will have little to no noticeable impact. Ham radio would continue to develop either way. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
John Smith wrote:
Dee: If you would chart developments and advancements in every technical field--amateur radio would come in last; frankly, I would doubt ones mental abilities who would even move in the direction of challenging that statement. Exactly right on point. Not since the 1950's has amateur radio had much of an impact on the "radio art". Packet briefly did, but it was rapidly eclipsed by technology. A religious devotion to cw and a real "good old boys club" has damaged amateur radio for decades. Personalities which have an "anti-social bent" have been in control here far too long, calling them just "eccentric" is far too kind. Not CW, but a general eccentric flavor has damaged amateur radio. Since the 1960's amateur radio has attracted the social misfits who fit in by the virtue of having a license and their social ineptitude excused because of the license. Nothing wrong with a "good old boys club", it's just that it's moved from a technical organization to a beer and belching organization with no real roots in advancement of the art. Sitting around and talking about scratching your testicals on 75 meter SSB has ZERO attraction to people with half a brain, and THIS is the problem with amateur radio. It isn't CW, it isn't lack of social skills or good hygiene, it's just that it doesn't attract engineers and good electronics technicians because it simply isn't challenging enough. Let us hope that decades of damage which has been done can be repaired quickly by the young men I am wishing and hoping to be here with us. Ain't gonna happen, I'm afraid. The bright young men are shooting 2.4 gig WiFi at each other and bypassing amateur radio entirely. It's too late. Now we need to encourage bright young men from industry here, so that we may mass produce cheap equipment and make amateur radio easy to step into. Hopefully, china and other developing countries will find it profitable and worth doing, to mass produce amateur equipment in a flowing abundance. Hopefully, soon, in the future the bands will be so congested calls are made for the bands to be expanded to accommodate all the hams needing bandwidth. A boom like that which CB experienced in the 70's would be most desirable, however, I do realize this is probably too much to even hope for. All you're going to get are people from CB. The bright young engineers are not going to touch amateur radio because there isn't anything here to attract them. As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in "advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be key in getting the numbers we need at that time. It's not an issue of numbers, it's an issue of why would anyone want to become an amateur radio operator. Really now, why would you want to do that? To talk on repeaters? To work some guy on 20 meters? The whole hobby is passe. If you want to attract the bright intelligent minds, you better be prepared to challenge them. Challenge them to let them in, challenge them when they get here. Do you think ax.25 is going to attract people? HA! |
Jayson:
On a few points you are right on. However, try to net a high speed data link on 2.4 GHZ to hawaii, australia, the uk--fat chance!!! (and you might as well forget 220 MHz too--50MHz with ducting, well, maybe) This is what HF is for, old farts got confused and though it was for brass keys and brass balls! John "Jayson Davis" wrote in message ... John Smith wrote: Dee: If you would chart developments and advancements in every technical field--amateur radio would come in last; frankly, I would doubt ones mental abilities who would even move in the direction of challenging that statement. Exactly right on point. Not since the 1950's has amateur radio had much of an impact on the "radio art". Packet briefly did, but it was rapidly eclipsed by technology. A religious devotion to cw and a real "good old boys club" has damaged amateur radio for decades. Personalities which have an "anti-social bent" have been in control here far too long, calling them just "eccentric" is far too kind. Not CW, but a general eccentric flavor has damaged amateur radio. Since the 1960's amateur radio has attracted the social misfits who fit in by the virtue of having a license and their social ineptitude excused because of the license. Nothing wrong with a "good old boys club", it's just that it's moved from a technical organization to a beer and belching organization with no real roots in advancement of the art. Sitting around and talking about scratching your testicals on 75 meter SSB has ZERO attraction to people with half a brain, and THIS is the problem with amateur radio. It isn't CW, it isn't lack of social skills or good hygiene, it's just that it doesn't attract engineers and good electronics technicians because it simply isn't challenging enough. Let us hope that decades of damage which has been done can be repaired quickly by the young men I am wishing and hoping to be here with us. Ain't gonna happen, I'm afraid. The bright young men are shooting 2.4 gig WiFi at each other and bypassing amateur radio entirely. It's too late. Now we need to encourage bright young men from industry here, so that we may mass produce cheap equipment and make amateur radio easy to step into. Hopefully, china and other developing countries will find it profitable and worth doing, to mass produce amateur equipment in a flowing abundance. Hopefully, soon, in the future the bands will be so congested calls are made for the bands to be expanded to accommodate all the hams needing bandwidth. A boom like that which CB experienced in the 70's would be most desirable, however, I do realize this is probably too much to even hope for. All you're going to get are people from CB. The bright young engineers are not going to touch amateur radio because there isn't anything here to attract them. As soon as cw falls, I see the most important step being in "advertising" the fact that cw is no longer a requirement. Spreading the word and helping others to study and pass the written exam will be key in getting the numbers we need at that time. It's not an issue of numbers, it's an issue of why would anyone want to become an amateur radio operator. Really now, why would you want to do that? To talk on repeaters? To work some guy on 20 meters? The whole hobby is passe. If you want to attract the bright intelligent minds, you better be prepared to challenge them. Challenge them to let them in, challenge them when they get here. Do you think ax.25 is going to attract people? HA! |
wrote in message ups.com... wrote: wrote: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc Ugly. Really ugly. But who of us in the PCTA camp, realistically, actually had themselves deluded into thinking the FCC would take any other path? As I often said in the past 5 years, when FCC wrote that code testing served no regulatory purpose other than treaty compliance, the deal was essentially done. The amazing thing was that it's taken two years to get this far. That's because the people wanting to eliminate the code "shot themselves in the foot" with a plethora of wide ranging petitions. This "NPRM" is not "an opportunity to comment", it's an announcement about the way it's absolutely gonna be. Period. They'll go thru the NPRM motions only because the law sez they have to and they'll patiently tap their fingers on the table until the deluge of desparate commnents is over then declare the POS they published today a done deal. I'll comment, like always. I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Got my antenna back up last night (had to take it down Sunday for the new siding to go on the house). 40 was full of CW signals. Nice chat with a VE2 on 7031. Life is good. Yup it is. And I will continue as always to try to introduce amateur radio to new people. I could care less about any of it at this late date because none of it has any effect at all on me. I've been allowed to beep, yak and PSK my buns off everywhere band edge to band edge ever since I did 13 wpm fast enough for the examiner to make me a General over a half century ago. With an annoying side trip in 1968 to do 20 wpm to reconfirm my abilty to beep good enough to retain my privs under that particular FCC "restructuring" brainfart. Exactly. Game over, I'm opting out of any further participation in any of this BS. Seeya in the pileups on 14.020. Ya dunno how to do 14.020? Good: Less QRM for me. Eat yer heart out. bwaahaahaa 73 de Jim, N2EY Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... wrote: wrote: I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Yep. Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and Restructuring... I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't true then. Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So where were all those engineering-types then? People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and "shoot skip", nothing more. I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that much. I'm betting that it will go just like the NPRM is now and that is code elimination across the board. They specifically discussed the proposals that had that concept in it and discounted the possibility. The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only one or two license classes. You know I doubt this as those who really wanted General upgraded anyway. Of those who haven't upgraded yet, many are relatively inactive anyhow. As far as two license classes go, FCC is not considering it right now and it won't really matter what they do as I believe that there will be a de facto two class system. When that is done we can remove all references to training and technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97. Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96? Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can operate legally...?!?! 73 Steve, K4YZ Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... OMG: I never thought about that, with the great influx of all these new hams firing up their keys and going CW on us, phone might be in danger!!! grin John Hello, John Nope, but I've never encountered a foul word nor bad operating procedure on cw. 160 used to be fine, even on voice mode, but other bands were ... well, a bit different. With the 14.313 gang going a while back plus the 75 meter folks .... well, 80 meter cw sounds good to me LOL. The nice thing about cw is that there is seldom, if ever, rude operation (contests don't count. Never cared for 'em and it is going to be hot and heavy in a contest. That is part of the game. Not rude, just hot and heavy and sometimes a bit chaotic). SSB needs close to 3 kHz of room and the power is spread over that 3 kHz (albeit not evenly). You don't need more than a few hundred Hertz for cw, so once you set your bandwidth to 300 Hz or less, you've just obtained a good 10 dB attenuation of the guy trying to irritate you. Of course, you can reduce bandwidth a bit more, but the audio isn't evenly spread over the spectrum. In many cases you can gain 20 dB or more advantage. Mike was running 1 kw input vs my 75 watts. His bandwidth was 50% in the carrier (not to be heard) and the remaining 50% of his power was spread over 6 kHz as he was running am. I didn't even hear him. With a good notch filter, he didn't even have to hear me. He could have carried on a conversation on am with another station whilst I chatted with the other guy with virtually no mutual interference. Four stations in the same "channel" .... with no interference. Dang! I just may become more pro-code LOL ;) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
Jim:
Well friend, you have been isolated. Out here in the real world kids are cussing like sailors in grade school, 11 year old girls are actively seeking to become pregnant, drugs are much more prevalent than ever in the 60's and 70's. The only areas where cussing is not seen is churches... Whether you like it or not reality has changed... You have hidden from the real world on 160m for far too long, and since you have not joined the real world, the real world now comes to you... Get over it, for at least the near future, things are NOT going the way most of us like--the answer to this is not setting aside 160m for ancient old men to hide in... John "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "John Smith" wrote in message ... OMG: I never thought about that, with the great influx of all these new hams firing up their keys and going CW on us, phone might be in danger!!! grin John Hello, John Nope, but I've never encountered a foul word nor bad operating procedure on cw. 160 used to be fine, even on voice mode, but other bands were ... well, a bit different. With the 14.313 gang going a while back plus the 75 meter folks .... well, 80 meter cw sounds good to me LOL. The nice thing about cw is that there is seldom, if ever, rude operation (contests don't count. Never cared for 'em and it is going to be hot and heavy in a contest. That is part of the game. Not rude, just hot and heavy and sometimes a bit chaotic). SSB needs close to 3 kHz of room and the power is spread over that 3 kHz (albeit not evenly). You don't need more than a few hundred Hertz for cw, so once you set your bandwidth to 300 Hz or less, you've just obtained a good 10 dB attenuation of the guy trying to irritate you. Of course, you can reduce bandwidth a bit more, but the audio isn't evenly spread over the spectrum. In many cases you can gain 20 dB or more advantage. Mike was running 1 kw input vs my 75 watts. His bandwidth was 50% in the carrier (not to be heard) and the remaining 50% of his power was spread over 6 kHz as he was running am. I didn't even hear him. With a good notch filter, he didn't even have to hear me. He could have carried on a conversation on am with another station whilst I chatted with the other guy with virtually no mutual interference. Four stations in the same "channel" .... with no interference. Dang! I just may become more pro-code LOL ;) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
Dee:
You are correct about one thing, those who are in danger of having their egos deflated, of being forced to wakeup, those realizing they are not going to be allowed to "be special" anymore are going to scream like pigs and look for some way to divert the fixes which are coming this way... John "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... wrote: wrote: I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Yep. Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and Restructuring... I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't true then. Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So where were all those engineering-types then? People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and "shoot skip", nothing more. I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that much. I'm betting that it will go just like the NPRM is now and that is code elimination across the board. They specifically discussed the proposals that had that concept in it and discounted the possibility. The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only one or two license classes. You know I doubt this as those who really wanted General upgraded anyway. Of those who haven't upgraded yet, many are relatively inactive anyhow. As far as two license classes go, FCC is not considering it right now and it won't really matter what they do as I believe that there will be a de facto two class system. When that is done we can remove all references to training and technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97. Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96? Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can operate legally...?!?! 73 Steve, K4YZ Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Dee: You are correct about one thing, those who are in danger of having their egos deflated, of being forced to wakeup, those realizing they are not going to be allowed to "be special" anymore are going to scream like pigs and look for some way to divert the fixes which are coming this way... John I find it difficult to see how extracted that concept from what I said. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "K4YZ" wrote in message ups.com... wrote: wrote: I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Yep. Just like with Novice Enhancement, the introduction of the NCT and Restructuring... I find it laughable that the FCC would use the same worn out and obviously untrue language that "this" change will bring all those technically-oriented people into the Amateur fold. They said the exact same thing with the last three aforementioned evolutions and it wasn't true then. Indeed we dropped the Code Test in 91 for 97% of all Amateur allocations, including the highly sought after VHF/UHF spectrum. The REAL argument has been over that last 3%, or the HF allocations. So where were all those engineering-types then? People like "You-Know-Who" have been arguing that his ilk don't get licenses due to not being able to get on HF...Yet they ALSO argue that the license is most valuable for experimenting. Well...All of the REAL "experimenting" is going on ABOVE 30MHz, not below it, so the argument is moot. They, like everyone else, want to get on HF and "shoot skip", nothing more. I'm betting that it remains CW for Extra, and no code for Generals, unless the FCC want's to disband the phone-vs-narrow band subdivisions. I think there will be sufficient argument to keep that much. I'm betting that it will go just like the NPRM is now and that is code elimination across the board. They specifically discussed the proposals that had that concept in it and discounted the possibility. The next two arguments are going to be to squeeze all of the non-voice modes into 50 or 75KHz of spectrum on each band since all of those new codeless Generals will want to spead out, and to have only one or two license classes. You know I doubt this as those who really wanted General upgraded anyway. Of those who haven't upgraded yet, many are relatively inactive anyhow. As far as two license classes go, FCC is not considering it right now and it won't really matter what they do as I believe that there will be a de facto two class system. When that is done we can remove all references to training and technical/operational competency from the Basis and Purpose of Part 97. Shortly thereafter we can move all of Part 97 to Part 95. Maybe re-write both parts into one, new, Part 96? Perhaps we can also add new bands at 061, 08, 04, 03 etc Meters so those claiming unfairness in testing criteria due to "dyslexia" can operate legally...?!?! 73 Steve, K4YZ Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
From: John Smith on Jul 21, 11:59 am
I agree. With the congestion on CB and there being only 40 chans for all the truck drivers, four wheelers, base stations and freebanders, it is a mess. More bandwidth has been needed for over a decade. More than THREE decades, John. CB is 47 years old. The sudden explosion of imported transceivers on the marketplace took place in the early 1960s. Most do want to chat with others in other countries, "skip" will be the mode of the day on HF--at least I'd imagine that to be the case. Sorry, you can't really say "skip" in here. That's a four- letter word used by CBers, as in "shooting skip." :-) One can still "pioneer the airwaves below 200 meters!" That's the MYTH. Of course the commercial and government and military people already did that early, used it, and moved on. :-) [I was there, on it, helping to use it, 50 years ago...] However, I have never seen a real case of where what actually happens is able to be "prophesized" accurately before the actual situation--it will be interesting to watch. No? Oh, my, I've met dozens of "nostrahamus" predictors in my time. The ham sky fell in 1958 when CODELESS, TESTLESS CB happened on HF!!! The ham sky fell in 1990 when FCC 90-53 created the NO CODE TEST Technician (ugh, ptui, spit) was to start in 1991. The ham sky fell in 1999 when the latest "restructuring" was ordered to take place in 2001 with the maximum rate of 5 WPM for ALL morse code tests! The ham sky has fallen so many times that it's a wonder the Earth hasn't turned into an ultra dense ball of neutrons. :-) WT Docket 05-235 is going to turn out to be more of a TITLE, RANK, PRIVILEGE bust for the ham "nobility." Oh, they will still trumpet their high-skill morsemanship as the "best of the best [morse] operators" and snarl at all others for being mere "yakkers into a mike." The snarls will still be there, frozen into rictus grins when they assume room temperature. The FCC defines U.S. amateur radio operators as (partly) having a "proven unique ability to enhance international goodwill." Funny, they don't comment about their unique ability to be as quarrelsome as possible domestically... It's a Great Day a Dawning! Huzzah! :-) |
From: Dee Flint on Jul 21, 6:01 pm
wrote in message wrote: wrote: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-05-143A1.doc Ugly. Really ugly. But who of us in the PCTA camp, realistically, actually had themselves deluded into thinking the FCC would take any other path? As I often said in the past 5 years, when FCC wrote that code testing served no regulatory purpose other than treaty compliance, the deal was essentially done. Errr....the FCC "said that" (wrote it, actually) in 1990 in regards to 90-53 on the creation of the no-code-test Technician class. So, what did you do between 15 and 5 years ago? :-) The amazing thing was that it's taken two years to get this far. That's because the people wanting to eliminate the code "shot themselves in the foot" with a plethora of wide ranging petitions. Tsk. Dee, you should really READ the NPRM more carefully, especially pages 6 through 9 and the footnotes on page 2. Then go to pages 26 through 28 to see which Petition was DENIED and which was granted in part. I've read all 18 Petitions as they were put on the ECFS...and Commented on all 18. Did YOU Comment on any of those Petitions or were you too busy doing DX in the morning before work? Hello? There was a WIDE RANGE of "restructuring" in those 18 Petitions. Had you actually studied them you would have seen that the more Byzantine plans were done by the PCTAs. shrug This "NPRM" is not "an opportunity to comment", it's an announcement about the way it's absolutely gonna be. Period. They'll go thru the NPRM motions only because the law sez they have to and they'll patiently tap their fingers on the table until the deluge of desparate commnents is over then declare the POS they published today a done deal. Was that "disparate" or "desperate?" :-) I'll comment, like always. Tsk. You will comment on anything, especially about subjects not germane to this newsgroup! :-) I agree with Dee, the only visible impact this latest "restructing" will be is another quickie bubble of upgrades and nothing more then back then the bands as usual. Yup. Then the "barrier" folks will find another excuse. Tsk. The "barrier" has been up for over 92 years. The "olde folkes' home" (in radio) has been established, located on the HF ham bands. Remarkable "new technology" on those HF ham bands? Only that devised by those in the UK and Europe...and the designer-manufacturers in Asia. Got my antenna back up last night (had to take it down Sunday for the new siding to go on the house). 40 was full of CW signals. Nice chat with a VE2 on 7031. Life is good. Yup it is. And I will continue as always to try to introduce amateur radio to new people. Keep on plugging that vital to the nation's needs, morse code, the one that "saves lives" etc., and supposedly "gets through when nothing else will." Is it "pioneering the (radio) airwaves through HF QSOs?" :-) I'll continue boosting ALL of ELECTRONICS...of which radio is a subset. It's a good occupation, interesting, challenging, constantly evolving, breaking new ground, on the cutting edges of electronics technology. Pays reasonably well, too. I've been in it for 53 years as a professional, as a hobbyist for about 58 years. Life IS good. The NPRM has finally arrived! The light at the end of the tunnel is not another train, just a representative of the rest of the radio world with Diogenes' borrowed lantern wondering where in the hell amateur radio has been... :-) |
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