RadioBanter - 25 kw station

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From: an old friend on Jul 24, 11:30 am

wrote:
From: "Jim Hampton" on Sat 23 Jul 2005 23:04

Where do you find this mythical freebander running TWENTY FIVE
KILOWATTS?!? [only in newsgroups is where...]

I'd love to see such a station just for the experence I can hardly
imagine it

You can see pictures of how it used to be at:

http://kauko.hallikainen.org/history/equipment/

Go to the sub-heading "Stations" and click on "ADA." It's about
an Army station in the 1950s whose transmitter site at over
three dozen HF transmitters ranging from 1 KW to 40 KW output.
Station ADA was only the third largest in the worldwide Army
network at the time. I was there for three years and most of
the pictures are from my own camera. All vacuum tubes, of
course, this was in the 1950s.

The other document under "Stations" is from a brochure done
up by the same battalion I served in, but ten years later.
All Signal Corps photographs.

Control was transferred from Army to USAF in 1963 and the USAF
terminated the station in 1978. HF was becoming less and less
used by the U.S. military in the 1980s. Civilian use of HF
was downsizing and the AFRS-AFRTS worldwide broadcasting went
to comm satellite relay. Even VOA downsized in that time and
most of those HUGE cabinets of power went to the scrap heap.

Some of the old stand-bys are still there, such as WWV. For
a look at the transmitters of WWV, WWVH, and (for 60 KHz)
WWVB, go to http://www.nist.gov and click the "Time and
Frequency" heading. WWVB puts out 50 KW and keeps thousands
of clocks and wris****ches on time every night...automatically.

bit bit

wrote:

You can see pictures of how it used to be at:

http://kauko.hallikainen.org/history/equipment/

Go to the sub-heading "Stations" and click on "ADA." It's about
an Army station in the 1950s whose transmitter site at over
three dozen HF transmitters ranging from 1 KW to 40 KW output.
Station ADA was only the third largest in the worldwide Army
network at the time. I was there for three years and most of
the pictures are from my own camera. All vacuum tubes, of
course, this was in the 1950s.

The other document under "Stations" is from a brochure done
up by the same battalion I served in, but ten years later.
All Signal Corps photographs.

of clocks and wris****ches on time every night...automatically.

So lennieboy thinks that by getting to walk by a high power Army radio
installation sometime in the 1950's and taking a few pictures made him
an expert radioman. Kinda like how he blusters on about ham radio "Morse
Men".

From: John Smith on Jul 24, 12:07 pm

... search the net out there...

John, don't get carried away.

"Searching the net" can get you "evidence" of alien abductions,
aliens stored at "Area 51," alternative medicine of all forms
that will "cure" all your ills, quackery and buffoonery that
doesn't stop. Try a Swiss by name of Erich von Daniken who
managed to get at least five printed books published showing
"positive proof" of the existance of "ancient astronauts."

... there are 50KW monster mobiles in big rigs running multiple industrial alternators...

John, this was already "discussed" in here along about five
years ago...but it was in ordinary cars and pickups, not "big
rigs." We went through the Watts and Joules and Horsepowers
ad nauseum to prove it infeasible.

"Industrial alternators" like the Leece-Neville units are only
capable of so much. At above 5 KW we are talking serious
SEPARATE electrical generators. Even if this mythical 50 KW
transmitter exists, its efficiency will be no more than 70%
running Class C, no more than 55% (at best) running AB_2.
So, the waste heat of a Class C 50 KW transmitter is 22 KW
all by itself. That's like 22 portable room heaters all
blazing away in one tiny place. A "reefer" truck can probably
handle it, but WHY?

["reefer" truck is a refrigerated trailer, not a transport for
marijuana]

50 KW is 40 db over a conventional truck-stop 5 W transceiver.
Anyone on the highways with THAT much power would suddenly
find themselves rather turned off by dozens and dozens of
other truckers who got totally blocked by this super-power
transmitter. Geez, at 50 KW, a little crystal set can be
used for DFing! :-)

... they are more show than go (even the FCC would take interest in those rigs if they about all the time!), and you see them at the monster RF get togethers back east in Tennessee and surrounding states...

Riiiiight. :-(

I have walked though such a "meet" (they are kinda like "car shows") before with a 4 ft. fluorescent tube, amazing, the ether is filled with RF!!!

Oh, geez, John. An ordinary fluorescent tube will light up at less
than a hundred watts incident RF...but one has to be CLOSE to the
field in order to do that. At ADA we did "SWR" checks on
open-wire feedlines using a fluorescent tube, two bamboo poles,
and two low-rank pole holders trudging through the flickering
dark (feedlines were 12 to 15 feet above ground). The electric
power demand (at the old site) was about 350 KWe so I figure
roughly 250 KW RF tossed out by 30 some transmitters at any one
time. Those fluorescent tubes did NOT light up in the middle
of the antenna field.

At the new ADA transmitter site, built on an old airfield about
1 x 2 miles, resident farmers were IN the antenna field. A few
had fluorescent lights. None were turned on by about 400 KW RF
radiated in that field. Pretty well made all the radios they
had useless, though, from rectification blockage. Note: Not
all the 40 KW Collins amplifiers had arrived by the time I made
that estimate. The existing 600 KWe generators were increased
by another 200 KWe shortly before 1956. The adjacent but
separate microwave radio relay building had fluorescent lights
as did the office area in the main building. Those lights did
NOT come on from all that RF of 400 KW plus...

Do I challenge your assertion of this RF field strength? YES.
Based on my experience I don't believe it.

From: Cmdr Buzziebaby Corey on Jul 24, 12:54 pm

wrote:

You can see pictures of how it used to be at:

http://kauko.hallikainen.org/history/equipment/

Go to the sub-heading "Stations" and click on "ADA." It's about
an Army station in the 1950s whose transmitter site at over
three dozen HF transmitters ranging from 1 KW to 40 KW output.
Station ADA was only the third largest in the worldwide Army
network at the time. I was there for three years and most of
the pictures are from my own camera. All vacuum tubes, of
course, this was in the 1950s.

So lennieboy thinks that by getting to walk by a high power Army radio
installation sometime in the 1950's and taking a few pictures made him
an expert radioman.

No, "commander" buzziebaby, I didn't do that...I WORKED IN
that station and learned how from on-the-job instruction,
manuals, texts, and a bunch of experts on HF transmitters.
From the beginning of February 1953 to late January 1956.
I didn't have a lot of choice in that even if I was a
voluntary enlistee (ASN RA16408336). If you don't believe
me, just check with Gene Rosenbaum, N2JTV. Gene was in the
the same outfit, worked at the same station, but on another
of the four operating teams at ADA. I worked up to be an
operating team leader until the microwave radio relay
equipment arrived...and I became lead NCO at the ADA
microwave installation. BTASE.

If you are ****ed or something, I'd suggest seeking medical
help for your rampant resentment. Personally, I don't give
a snit how jealous you are. I took advantage of my
assignment and learned all I could. That was enough for me
to change my career goal in life from industrial art to
electronics engineering after my Honorable Discharge. You
don't like that? TS. Pass me your TS card, I punch it.

Kinda like how he blusters on about ham radio "Morse
Men".

That's Mighty Macho Morsemen, eedjut. Get it RIGHT.

Anony-mousie buzziebaby, I've seen, operated HF stuff
along with VHF, UHF, and microwave stuff IN the military
and know damn well that the vast majority of military
communications of half a century ago was NOT by any
magic of morsemanship. Worse yet for you jealous types,
I do have written confirmation of what I did AND the
word of both military and civilian personnel who were
THERE at the same time I was. No brags, just fact.

Now go play with your olde-tyme raddios, buzziebaby.
Pretend you're a hotshot 1930s morseman and dream your
impossible dreams of radio importance. Cuss out all of
those who were doing the REAL stuff if that makes your
ego feel better. It won't matter in the long run. I
was there, you weren't. Hell, you can't even summon
enough courage to use a real name or ham callsign!

bit bit

Sure you did lennieboy, sure. Bet you couldn't even turn the transmitter
on without help.

He probably wasn't allowed to. He didn't want to go to the
stockade.

I have a ham license. Do you?

Now that the code test will soon be history, it should
be easy for Len to get a license, if he in fact does
have all that RF experience and knowledge above. Still,
I'd check out the question pools for new technologies and
the rules and regs. I won't ask for Len to get an extra
out of the box. Just get any ham license and upgrade
later if he wants to.

From: robert casey on Jul 25, 9:46 am

Sure you did lennieboy, sure. Bet you couldn't even turn the transmitter
on without help.

He probably wasn't allowed to. He didn't want to go to the
stockade.

Tsk. Download:

http://kauko.hallikainen.org/history...s/My3Years.pdf

No "stockade." Not even Stockton, CA.

Stocks and Bonds you don't get to know about... :-)

I have a ham license. Do you?

Now that the code test will soon be history, it should
be easy for Len to get a license, if he in fact does
have all that RF experience and knowledge above.

I've had a First Class Radiotelephone (Commercial) license
since March, 1956. Kept it renewed. FCC turned it into
a General Radiotelephone license, lifetime.

BTW, any First 'Phone or GROL has places on the back of
the certificate for sign-offs by the responsible engineer
at a transmitter. I have such sign-offs on three of the
certificates, dating from 1956 to 1985.

I can supply a resume (short-form) if necessary...:-)
Have already done that in here. But, that generates
even more anguish/hatred/jealousy by those with little
or no commercial experience...especially those with no
military communications experience. :-)

Still,
I'd check out the question pools for new technologies and
the rules and regs.

...at least every two years when a pool is reviewed by
the VEC QPC.

I won't ask for Len to get an extra out of the box.

No? Tsk. I thought all PCTA extras were my "sworn
enemies" in here. :-)

Just get any ham license and upgrade later if he wants to.

How about one from the Food and Drug Administration?
They are responsible for ham. And beef. And fish.
And etc. :-)

"Ham is the butchered meat of swine..." :-)

[oh, the skins are THIN in here...thinner than a microtome slice!]

tap tap

No? Tsk. I thought all PCTA extras were my "sworn
enemies" in here. :-)

Infiltrate the ranks.... ;-)