"John Smith" wrote in message
news
Funny, Saddam Husein might have said those very words...

John
....
....and let us not leave Adolph and Hillary out of this group.

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 04:28:59 +0000, David Stinson wrote:

"There is little in the world
more stupid than a majority."

Alexander Hamilton

"There is little in the world
more stupid than a majority."

Alexander Hamilton

Remember what happened to ol' Alex?


bam oop

wrote:
From: on Fri 19 Aug 2005 12:58


wrote:
Recently there have been some claims about "what the majority wants" in
regards to FCC NPRMs.

Here's what happened wrt 98-143, the last big restructuring NPRM, and
commenters' views on code testing.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.radio.amateur.policy/msg/bd661a50825a37f3?dmode=source&hl=en

http://tinyurl.com/7t3te

It was posted Mar 12 1999, by WA6VSE. Here's a relevant quote

Ackshully, one ought to go to the SOURCE which is easily
accessible by anyone with Internet access. Just go to the
FCC ECFS and for WT Docket 98-143, look under 25 and 26
January 1999 for postings by LeRoy Klose III. Include the
attachment links.

That gets one into Larry Klose's remarkable summary of ALL
Comments on 98-143 up to 25 January 1999 (the official
cut-off date was 15 January 1999).

Brian, Jimmie wants to have everyone look at "second-hand"
information, an encapsulated form. It is better to look at
the REAL stuff, FIRST-HAND, which is readily available.

Jimmie No-Serve has always wanted the truth filtered. When wasn't it
so?

Larry eliminated dupes and responses that did not address the
code test issue.

It's clear that:

43% is not a majority, yet they got what they wanted.

57% of those who commented on 98-143 wanted 2 or 3 code test speeds.
That majority did not get what they wanted.

57% of those who commented on 98-143 wanted 12, 13 or 20 wpm for Extra.
That majority did not get what they wanted.

57% of those who commented on 98-143 wanted 12 or 13 wpm for Advanced.
That majority did not get what they wanted.

Lessee, 57% + 57% + 57% = 171%, a clear majority.

Jimmie has a wonderful way with numbers... :-)

Jimmie is also stuck firmly in the PAST. 1998 was SEVEN
YEARS AGO and the Internet was in its 7th public year.

FCC 99-412, ordered in December, 1999, established the
"Amateur Restructuring" which took place in mid-2000.

AT THE TIME (1998-1999), it was IMPOSSIBLE to eliminate
the morse code test for ANY U.S. amateur radio license
having privileges of operating below 30 MHz. The barrier
was S25.5 of the ITU-R...colloquially known (or mis-known)
as "the treaty." [there is NO specific treaty on morse
code, only the honor system whereby all administrations are
supposed to adhere to ITU decisions on standards and
allocations]

Nebbermind that the US of A has broken lots of treaties that Jimmy
No-Serve has never protested.

Conveniently missing is that the FCC's reasons for 90-53,
of 1990, 15 years ago, was that it did not feel that any
manual morse code skill test was any sort of qualifier for
the Commission to grant an applicant a license. That
established the reason-for-being of creation of the no-code-
test Technician class license.

But, but, but, that was because of some King that nobody cares about
anymore. CAn't we just ignore him?

Also conventiently omitted is EIGHTEEN Petitions, nearly all
varying in general "re-re-structuring" having none-some-all
code testing. Absolutely NO CONSENSUS could be gained from
reviewing all 18 Pentitions...even though the Commission had
stated publicly several times that it wanted a consensus.
The "amateur community" is highly polarized on the subject of
code testing and remains so seven years after 1998.

Highly polarized. But as long as the good EXTRAS are being
satisfied...

This year, 2005, is SEVEN years from the 98-143 Docket.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven...

It is
also the 14th year of public access to the Internet (it went
public in 1991). Far more citizens have access to the Internet
in 2005 than they did in 1998. In 2003 the Census Bureau
reported that one in five Americans had some form of Internet
access then. Nearly all the Comments on WT Docket 05-235 are
electronic rather than written on paper. So far, in the 23rd
day of Comments on WT Docket 05-235, there are 1720 documents
on file, about 75 a day on the average! Compare that to the
2300+ Comments of WT Docket 98-143 whose commentary period
was extended for nearly six months after release. There's
far more "traffic" on 05-235 than there was on 98-143.

And there should be.

At time NOW, in 2005, the MAJORITY are very adamantly showing
they ARE a majority.

They are merely delusional.

Unambiguous opinions (95.3% of all filings)
show a 4:2:1 ratio of For:Against:Extra-Only on elimination of
the code test. There is easily a 2:1 ratio of those favoring
NPRM 05-143 versus those opposing it.

You'll always have your EXTRA Jims in the ARS.

The IARU, helped/nudged/influenced by international membership
of NCI, was the main operator in wanting S25 of the ITU Radio
Regulations re-written. [it was more than just S25.5 covering
code testing] It was done in mid-July, 2003, over two years
ago. Since then TWENTY-THREE other countries have dropped
morse code testing for their radio amateurs licenses having
below-30-MHz operating privileges.

We need people like Carl Anderson pushing the buttons at the ARRL.

Summary: The FCC wants to drop code testing, the IARU wants
to drop code testing, 23 nations already have done so, and
a CLEAR MAJORITY of WT Docket 05-235 Commenters want it
dropped. That CLEAR MAJORUTY is 2:1 for dropping it versus
those wanting it retained. That CLEAR MAJORITY is 58% of
those who have unambiguously commented.

Jimmie wants to crawl back seven years and live there... :-(

sin die


Much much further.

wrote:
wrote:
From: on Fri 19 Aug 2005 12:58

cut
AT THE TIME (1998-1999), it was IMPOSSIBLE to eliminate
the morse code test for ANY U.S. amateur radio license
having privileges of operating below 30 MHz. The barrier
was S25.5 of the ITU-R...colloquially known (or mis-known)
as "the treaty." [there is NO specific treaty on morse
code, only the honor system whereby all administrations are
supposed to adhere to ITU decisions on standards and
allocations]

Nebbermind that the US of A has broken lots of treaties that Jimmy
No-Serve has never protested.

and not to mention that the Treaty never said what a code test was, by
plain reading one could argue that sending a did and requiring the
teste to Id it it as E would be a test

cut

Len:

I was just here "Twiddling With Amateur Things" and attempting to come up
with an acronym for what I was doing, when I seen your post, pleasant
diversion--your post...

.... well, back to figuring out the acronym--you have any ideas? grin

John

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 18:17:37 -0700, an_old_friend wrote:


wrote:
wrote:
From: on Fri 19 Aug 2005 12:58

cut
AT THE TIME (1998-1999), it was IMPOSSIBLE to eliminate
the morse code test for ANY U.S. amateur radio license
having privileges of operating below 30 MHz. The barrier
was S25.5 of the ITU-R...colloquially known (or mis-known)
as "the treaty." [there is NO specific treaty on morse
code, only the honor system whereby all administrations are
supposed to adhere to ITU decisions on standards and
allocations]

Nebbermind that the US of A has broken lots of treaties that Jimmy
No-Serve has never protested.

and not to mention that the Treaty never said what a code test was, by
plain reading one could argue that sending a did and requiring the
teste to Id it it as E would be a test

cut

That was mainly Brian Burke's and Mark Morgan's post, John.

I spent a whole summer testing Travelling Wave Amplifier Tubes...
know what you mean...:-)

you men

From: on Aug 21, 12:10 pm

wrote:
From: on Fri 19 Aug 2005 12:58
wrote:

Brian, Jimmie wants to have everyone look at "second-hand"
information, an encapsulated form. It is better to look at
the REAL stuff, FIRST-HAND, which is readily available.

Jimmie No-Serve has always wanted the truth filtered. When wasn't it
so?

Possibly before he left the Seminary? shrug



AT THE TIME (1998-1999), it was IMPOSSIBLE to eliminate
the morse code test for ANY U.S. amateur radio license
having privileges of operating below 30 MHz. The barrier
was S25.5 of the ITU-R...colloquially known (or mis-known)
as "the treaty." [there is NO specific treaty on morse
code, only the honor system whereby all administrations are
supposed to adhere to ITU decisions on standards and
allocations]

Nebbermind that the US of A has broken lots of treaties that Jimmy
No-Serve has never protested.

...nor protected.


Conveniently missing is that the FCC's reasons for 90-53,
of 1990, 15 years ago, was that it did not feel that any
manual morse code skill test was any sort of qualifier for
the Commission to grant an applicant a license. That
established the reason-for-being of creation of the no-code-
test Technician class license.

But, but, but, that was because of some King that nobody cares about
anymore. CAn't we just ignore him?

I don't believe that "King of Jordan request of Papa Bush".

Yurp had the "T-hams" well before 1990. The movement to
eliminate the code test has beginning to gather momentum
in 1980, a decade before.


Also conventiently omitted is EIGHTEEN Petitions, nearly all
varying in general "re-re-structuring" having none-some-all
code testing. Absolutely NO CONSENSUS could be gained from
reviewing all 18 Pentitions...even though the Commission had
stated publicly several times that it wanted a consensus.
The "amateur community" is highly polarized on the subject of
code testing and remains so seven years after 1998.

Highly polarized. But as long as the good EXTRAS are being
satisfied...

Yes, they have "lesser classes" to look down upon.


also the 14th year of public access to the Internet (it went
public in 1991). Far more citizens have access to the Internet
in 2005 than they did in 1998. In 2003 the Census Bureau
reported that one in five Americans had some form of Internet
access then. Nearly all the Comments on WT Docket 05-235 are
electronic rather than written on paper. So far, in the 23rd
day of Comments on WT Docket 05-235, there are 1720 documents
on file, about 75 a day on the average! Compare that to the
2300+ Comments of WT Docket 98-143 whose commentary period
was extended for nearly six months after release. There's
far more "traffic" on 05-235 than there was on 98-143.

And there should be.

Once NPRM 05-143 is included in the Federal Register (it wasn't
up to last Friday), the floodgates may be opened. Mondays always
have the most documents received; so far nothing has appeared on
Saturdays or Sundays. The 458 Comments of 8 August 2005 was a
veritable deluge.

At time NOW, in 2005, the MAJORITY are very adamantly showing
they ARE a majority.

They are merely delusional.

Unambiguous opinions (95.3% of all filings)

Somehow that just isn't getting through to the coders. They
just can't understand that the NCTA are sick and tired of
that code test as some kind of "maintainer of a living
museum of morsemanship." The NCTA are in the MAJORITY, no
ifs, ands, buts, or conditionals.

You'll always have your EXTRA Jims in the ARS.

I'm sure. They see themselves as "an elite force" or whatever.

The IARU, helped/nudged/influenced by international membership
of NCI, was the main operator in wanting S25 of the ITU Radio
Regulations re-written. [it was more than just S25.5 covering
code testing] It was done in mid-July, 2003, over two years
ago. Since then TWENTY-THREE other countries have dropped
morse code testing for their radio amateurs licenses having
below-30-MHz operating privileges.

We need people like Carl Anderson pushing the buttons at the ARRL.

I wish CARL STEVENSON all good fortune on getting elected.
By all accounts, Carl GETS THINGS DONE. He was IN Geneva
for WRC-03...while the League was still objecting to changing
S25, back two years ago...they may not have fully recovered
from that. The League needs some new blood...not reprocessed
plasma.

Kellie can vote NO on Carl Anderson if he wants to... :-)


Summary: The FCC wants to drop code testing, the IARU wants
to drop code testing, 23 nations already have done so, and
a CLEAR MAJORITY of WT Docket 05-235 Commenters want it
dropped. That CLEAR MAJORUTY is 2:1 for dropping it versus
those wanting it retained. That CLEAR MAJORITY is 58% of
those who have unambiguously commented.

Jimmie wants to crawl back seven years and live there... :-(

Much much further.

His choice. The rest of the world continues on...to the future.


the now

wrote in message
oups.com...
[snip]

We need people like Carl Anderson pushing the buttons at the ARRL.

Who's Carl Anderson??? (I didn't see that name in the e-mail I got from
Dave Sumner listing those who had been nominated for ARRL offices ...)

73,
Carl - wk3c
http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c

Carl, go to another thread, one begun by Brian Kelly. The "Carl
Anderson" is/was a major goof by Kellie. :-)


out nam

From: on Aug 21, 12:10 pm

wrote:
From: on Fri 19 Aug 2005 12:58
wrote:

Brian, Jimmie wants to have everyone look at "second-hand"
information, an encapsulated form. It is better to look at
the REAL stuff, FIRST-HAND, which is readily available.

Jimmie No-Serve has always wanted the truth filtered. When wasn't it
so?

Possibly before he left the Seminary? shrug



AT THE TIME (1998-1999), it was IMPOSSIBLE to eliminate
the morse code test for ANY U.S. amateur radio license
having privileges of operating below 30 MHz. The barrier
was S25.5 of the ITU-R...colloquially known (or mis-known)
as "the treaty." [there is NO specific treaty on morse
code, only the honor system whereby all administrations are
supposed to adhere to ITU decisions on standards and
allocations]

Nebbermind that the US of A has broken lots of treaties that Jimmy
No-Serve has never protested.

...nor protected.


Conveniently missing is that the FCC's reasons for 90-53,
of 1990, 15 years ago, was that it did not feel that any
manual morse code skill test was any sort of qualifier for
the Commission to grant an applicant a license. That
established the reason-for-being of creation of the no-code-
test Technician class license.

But, but, but, that was because of some King that nobody cares about
anymore. CAn't we just ignore him?

I don't believe that "King of Jordan request of Papa Bush".

Yurp had the "T-hams" well before 1990. The movement to
eliminate the code test has beginning to gather momentum
in 1980, a decade before.


Also conventiently omitted is EIGHTEEN Petitions, nearly all
varying in general "re-re-structuring" having none-some-all
code testing. Absolutely NO CONSENSUS could be gained from
reviewing all 18 Pentitions...even though the Commission had
stated publicly several times that it wanted a consensus.
The "amateur community" is highly polarized on the subject of
code testing and remains so seven years after 1998.

Highly polarized. But as long as the good EXTRAS are being
satisfied...

Yes, they have "lesser classes" to look down upon.


also the 14th year of public access to the Internet (it went
public in 1991). Far more citizens have access to the Internet
in 2005 than they did in 1998. In 2003 the Census Bureau
reported that one in five Americans had some form of Internet
access then. Nearly all the Comments on WT Docket 05-235 are
electronic rather than written on paper. So far, in the 23rd
day of Comments on WT Docket 05-235, there are 1720 documents
on file, about 75 a day on the average! Compare that to the
2300+ Comments of WT Docket 98-143 whose commentary period
was extended for nearly six months after release. There's
far more "traffic" on 05-235 than there was on 98-143.

And there should be.

Once NPRM 05-143 is included in the Federal Register (it wasn't
up to last Friday), the floodgates may be opened. Mondays always
have the most documents received; so far nothing has appeared on
Saturdays or Sundays. The 458 Comments of 8 August 2005 was a
veritable deluge.

At time NOW, in 2005, the MAJORITY are very adamantly showing
they ARE a majority.

They are merely delusional.

Unambiguous opinions (95.3% of all filings)

Somehow that just isn't getting through to the coders. They
just can't understand that the NCTA are sick and tired of
that code test as some kind of "maintainer of a living
museum of morsemanship." The NCTA are in the MAJORITY, no
ifs, ands, buts, or conditionals.

You'll always have your EXTRA Jims in the ARS.

I'm sure. They see themselves as "an elite force" or whatever.

The IARU, helped/nudged/influenced by international membership
of NCI, was the main operator in wanting S25 of the ITU Radio
Regulations re-written. [it was more than just S25.5 covering
code testing] It was done in mid-July, 2003, over two years
ago. Since then TWENTY-THREE other countries have dropped
morse code testing for their radio amateurs licenses having
below-30-MHz operating privileges.

We need people like Carl Anderson pushing the buttons at the ARRL.

I wish CARL STEVENSON all good fortune on getting elected.
By all accounts, Carl GETS THINGS DONE. He was IN Geneva
for WRC-03...while the League was still objecting to changing
S25, back two years ago...they may not have fully recovered
from that. The League needs some new blood...not reprocessed
plasma.

Kellie can vote NO on Carl Anderson if he wants to... :-)


Summary: The FCC wants to drop code testing, the IARU wants
to drop code testing, 23 nations already have done so, and
a CLEAR MAJORITY of WT Docket 05-235 Commenters want it
dropped. That CLEAR MAJORUTY is 2:1 for dropping it versus
those wanting it retained. That CLEAR MAJORITY is 58% of
those who have unambiguously commented.

Jimmie wants to crawl back seven years and live there... :-(

Much much further.

His choice. The rest of the world continues on...to the future.


the now