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Docket Scorecard
From: on Oct 14, 8:16 pm
wrote: From: Leo on Oct 14, 2:45 pm It would have been a far more productive thing to do for the hobby that to attempt to ignite yet another flame war here......again...... No, that is entirely "predictable" on Miccolis' part. :-) Careful, now. YOU are not permitted to profile on RRAP. YOU hold no amateur radio license. YOUR knowledge of such things is imperfect and suspect. To borrow from Flip Wilson, "da devil made me do it!" :-) |
Docket Scorecard
From: Leo on Oct 15, 9:36 am
On 14 Oct 2005 15:02:32 -0700, wrote: Leo wrote: On 14 Oct 2005 12:39:50 -0700, wrote: From: on Oct 14, 9:20 am Bill Sohl wrote: wrote in message wrote: If the growth doesn't happen, it means the code test wasn't really a problem in the first place. Ahem...this is a "preconditioning" artificiality of "reasons." [akin to the "do you still beat your wife?" question] "Growth in numbers" is not a raison d'etre for the elimination or retention of the code test. The lack of love and worship of morsemanship should be enough. Another view would be that it was a problem that is being fixed way too late to repair the damage. Amateur Radio was a very popular hobby back when you and I were kids - today, there are too many other far-more-glamorous things competing with it. One of the first signs of that outside amateur radio was the USA's creation of Class C and D CB in 1958. NO test of any kind, just a Restricted Radiotelephone license form needed for anyone to use the 22 channels (23rd shared with radio control). Excellent in large urban areas before the offshore products appeared about four years later and the trucking industry started buying them. That era was before the semiconductor devices were used en masse for consumer electronics. Those that haven't been in the electronics industry or hobby field long can't appreciate the true revolution in parts, components, ICs, etc., that virtually exploded in the overall electronics market in the last half century. [I got an Allied Radio catalog while off on the midwest trip...the 2006 issue is 3/8" thicker than the 2005 issue for 2 1/2" thickness!] Besides the personal computer hobbyist group (very large still) there are the offshoots of PC work such as Robotics (almost all micro-processor controlled) along with all kinds of mechanical parts and specialty marketing for same, model vehicle radio control (they lobbied for and got dozens of channels in low VHF just for them)(examine the market for that activity, from "park flyers" to R/C helicopters, very big). Coming up are a plethora of "gadget" constructors and experimenters doing many things from home security to infra-red communications, instrumentation of all kinds (check out the last decade of Scientific American's "home scientist" column). Since 1958 we've all seen the appearance of communications satellites making live international TV a reality, watched the first men on the moon in live TV, seen the first of the cellular telephones, cordless telephones become a part of our social structure, CDs replacing vinyl disks for music, DVDs that replaced VHS, "Pong" growing from a cocktail bar game to rather sophisticated computer games (in their own specialized enclosures), digital voice on handheld transceivers for FRS (in the USA) unlicensed use, Bluetooth appliances for cell phones, the Internet (only 14 years old) spreading throughout most of the world and mail-order over the 'net becoming a standard thing that built Amazon.com into a money- maker of huge proportions. Besides the already-available "text messaging" and imaging over cell phones, look for even more startling developments in that now-ubiquitous pocket sized appliance. My wife got a new cell phone before we left on a 5000 mile trip to Wisconsin and back. All along I-15, I-80, I-5 that cell phone worked just fine inside the car, wife getting her e-mail forwarded from AOL, then making several calls for new reservations (we changed routes coming back) at motels, getting voice mail from the cat sitter service, calling to her sister and niece in WA state from Iowa. Emergency comms through 911 service is now possible along highways, even in the more remote parts of Wyoming, Utah, or Nevada. I would think that the vast majority of the folks who are interested in the things that Amateur Radio offers are already a part of the hobby. Adding HF access might broaden the scope of those who did not gain access to HF via morse testing (for whatever reasons) - but to think for a moment that there are legions of wannabe hams who are waiting exitedly for morse testing to be abolished so that they can rush in and get on the air would be foolish. They aren't there. I think that is a valid observation. Had the "revolution" begun earlier here, such as prior to the no-code-test Technician class (USA) license of 1991, there might have been more growth. In terms of CODED amateur radio licenses, those license numbers would have SHRUNK by now without that no-code-test Tech class. For over two years there has been a continual reduction in the number USA amateur radio licenses. The majority of NEW licensees come in via the no-code-test Tech class but they can't overcome the EXPIRATIONS of already-granted licenses. The morsemen acolytes of the Church of St. Hiram just can't understand all of that. They bought into certain concepts in their formative years and haven't been able to see that the rest of the world changed around them. It may not be too late to reverse but it will be a formidable task to increase the ham license numbers, impossible using old cliche'-ridden paradigms. |
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On 15 Oct 2005 14:02:03 -0700, wrote:
From: Leo on Oct 15, 9:36 am On 14 Oct 2005 15:02:32 -0700, wrote: Leo wrote: On 14 Oct 2005 12:39:50 -0700, wrote: From: on Oct 14, 9:20 am Bill Sohl wrote: wrote in message wrote: If the growth doesn't happen, it means the code test wasn't really a problem in the first place. Ahem...this is a "preconditioning" artificiality of "reasons." [akin to the "do you still beat your wife?" question] Precisely so - and, it is indicative of the assumption that code testing is currently under review because it is perceived as a "problem". This is, of course, not the case. "Growth in numbers" is not a raison d'etre for the elimination or retention of the code test. The lack of love and worship of morsemanship should be enough. Agreed - the review of the requirement is based entirely upon an change of requirements in an international treaty. The regulators create the rules and regulations which control the hobby - it is up to the amateur community to promote it and drive growth. Another view would be that it was a problem that is being fixed way too late to repair the damage. Amateur Radio was a very popular hobby back when you and I were kids - today, there are too many other far-more-glamorous things competing with it. One of the first signs of that outside amateur radio was the USA's creation of Class C and D CB in 1958. NO test of any kind, just a Restricted Radiotelephone license form needed for anyone to use the 22 channels (23rd shared with radio control). Excellent in large urban areas before the offshore products appeared about four years later and the trucking industry started buying them. That era was before the semiconductor devices were used en masse for consumer electronics. Those that haven't been in the electronics industry or hobby field long can't appreciate the true revolution in parts, components, ICs, etc., that virtually exploded in the overall electronics market in the last half century. [I got an Allied Radio catalog while off on the midwest trip...the 2006 issue is 3/8" thicker than the 2005 issue for 2 1/2" thickness!] Besides the personal computer hobbyist group (very large still) there are the offshoots of PC work such as Robotics (almost all micro-processor controlled) along with all kinds of mechanical parts and specialty marketing for same, model vehicle radio control (they lobbied for and got dozens of channels in low VHF just for them)(examine the market for that activity, from "park flyers" to R/C helicopters, very big). Coming up are a plethora of "gadget" constructors and experimenters doing many things from home security to infra-red communications, instrumentation of all kinds (check out the last decade of Scientific American's "home scientist" column). Since 1958 we've all seen the appearance of communications satellites making live international TV a reality, watched the first men on the moon in live TV, seen the first of the cellular telephones, cordless telephones become a part of our social structure, CDs replacing vinyl disks for music, DVDs that replaced VHS, "Pong" growing from a cocktail bar game to rather sophisticated computer games (in their own specialized enclosures), digital voice on handheld transceivers for FRS (in the USA) unlicensed use, Bluetooth appliances for cell phones, the Internet (only 14 years old) spreading throughout most of the world and mail-order over the 'net becoming a standard thing that built Amazon.com into a money- maker of huge proportions. Besides the already-available "text messaging" and imaging over cell phones, look for even more startling developments in that now-ubiquitous pocket sized appliance. My wife got a new cell phone before we left on a 5000 mile trip to Wisconsin and back. All along I-15, I-80, I-5 that cell phone worked just fine inside the car, wife getting her e-mail forwarded from AOL, then making several calls for new reservations (we changed routes coming back) at motels, getting voice mail from the cat sitter service, calling to her sister and niece in WA state from Iowa. Emergency comms through 911 service is now possible along highways, even in the more remote parts of Wyoming, Utah, or Nevada. There have indeed been massive changes in technology over the past half century. Instant communication on a global basis is available to almost everyone now, affordably and from virtually anywhere. Sure, during natural disasters this capability is severely impacted - but in everyday life, amaueur radio can no longer compete for public interest as it once did. (why go through licensing and buy expensive radio equipment to talk with Uncle Bob in Peoria on ham radio, when you can call him up on Skype on the Internet with great audio and live colour full-motion video for free?) I would think that the vast majority of the folks who are interested in the things that Amateur Radio offers are already a part of the hobby. Adding HF access might broaden the scope of those who did not gain access to HF via morse testing (for whatever reasons) - but to think for a moment that there are legions of wannabe hams who are waiting exitedly for morse testing to be abolished so that they can rush in and get on the air would be foolish. They aren't there. I think that is a valid observation. Had the "revolution" begun earlier here, such as prior to the no-code-test Technician class (USA) license of 1991, there might have been more growth. In terms of CODED amateur radio licenses, those license numbers would have SHRUNK by now without that no-code-test Tech class. For over two years there has been a continual reduction in the number USA amateur radio licenses. The majority of NEW licensees come in via the no-code-test Tech class but they can't overcome the EXPIRATIONS of already-granted licenses. Along with the common assumption that code testing is an impediment to new Amateur licensees (due to no access to HF without it), there is the companion assumption that licensing is also an impediment. The theory is that if licensing was removed (as it was with CB many years ago) that the floodgates would open and the bands would become overcrowded by the stampede of new amateur operators. This is, of course, nonsense - they aren't there either. Fifty years ago, perhaps - but not now. In the three years that I have held a license, I have met very few people who were interested at all in radio communications. Try this experiment - show a teenage kid an SSTV picture being received, and watch the reaction..... We hams are becoming a rare breed as technology advances. The morsemen acolytes of the Church of St. Hiram just can't understand all of that. They bought into certain concepts in their formative years and haven't been able to see that the rest of the world changed around them. It may not be too late to reverse but it will be a formidable task to increase the ham license numbers, impossible using old cliche'-ridden paradigms. Agreed! 73, Leo |
Docket Scorecard
wrote: From: on Oct 14, 8:16 pm wrote: From: Leo on Oct 14, 2:45 pm It would have been a far more productive thing to do for the hobby that to attempt to ignite yet another flame war here......again...... No, that is entirely "predictable" on Miccolis' part. :-) Careful, now. YOU are not permitted to profile on RRAP. YOU hold no amateur radio license. YOUR knowledge of such things is imperfect and suspect. To borrow from Flip Wilson, "da devil made me do it!" :-) Loved that guy. Never got into the Monty Python stuff so often quoted here. |
Docket Scorecard
From: Leo on Sun 16 Oct 2005 10:34
On 15 Oct 2005 14:02:03 -0700, wrote: From: Leo on Oct 15, 9:36 am On 14 Oct 2005 15:02:32 -0700, wrote: Leo wrote: On 14 Oct 2005 12:39:50 -0700, wrote: From: on Oct 14, 9:20 am Bill Sohl wrote: wrote in message wrote: If the growth doesn't happen, it means the code test wasn't really a problem in the first place. Ahem...this is a "preconditioning" artificiality of "reasons." [akin to the "do you still beat your wife?" question] Precisely so - and, it is indicative of the assumption that code testing is currently under review because it is perceived as a "problem". This is, of course, not the case. The alleged "problem" is described as a problem by those who favor the mode and the license test that THEY passed... and will probably never have to test for again. License testing for manual morse code cognition skill simply became obsolete. A REAL problem is that those who passed the manual tests refuse to let it BE obsolete...it is an ingrained psyche touchstone, a mile-marker of how far they came once. They refuse to look at the future and OTHERS who may come later. It is a very personal thing to them. Another casual factor is human mortality. Keeping things as they were is a form of psychological stability..."all things are as they were then" and there are no new things to overcome. Keeping the status very quo is comforting to those who have become "mature." :-) It has an artificial stability sense of delaying their own demise...in addition to the nostalgia and yearning for a youth now irrevocably lost to the past. Still another casual factor is simply personal ego. Those who have taken and passed the highest-rate manual morse tests - thus achieving recognition by class - will lose their eliteness and title. [despite over two centuries of independence from the Crown, Americans are still caught up in Titles and pseudo-nobility of Status] "Growth in numbers" is not a raison d'etre for the elimination or retention of the code test. The lack of love and worship of morsemanship should be enough. Agreed - the review of the requirement is based entirely upon an change of requirements in an international treaty. The regulators create the rules and regulations which control the hobby - it is up to the amateur community to promote it and drive growth. That is not how many of the Comments on WT Docket 05-235 down here are. :-) In many Comments elimination of the federal requirement of manual code testing will cause a near-total cessation of manual morse code use if removed! [extremists add the degeneration into anarchy and chaos, supposedly the environment of CB] In the USA the FCC was on public record 15 years ago that it did not feel that any manual morse code test was necessary for their purpose in granting USA ham licenses (FCC 90-53, a copy of which visible on www.nocode.org). However, the test requirements were still in the Radio Regulations of the ITU-R and the USA was obliged to obey it. Obsolesence in Radio Regulations finally was recognized, not only in S25.5 but in many other parts of S25. S25 was rewritten at WRC-03 and manual morse testing made optional for each adminstration. [there won't be another WRC until 2007] Since 2003, 23 countries have removed the absolute necessity of testing for manual morse skill for HF and below. It should be noted that the International Amateur Radio Union was FOR the modernization of S25 at least a year prior to WRC-03...and the optionality of code testing by each administration. One problem, a REAL problem, here in the USA is the un- willingness of the ARRL to go with the desires of the majority of American radio amateurs. They seem to cater to their core membership which is the older, code-tested amateurs. The ARRL membership is (as of July, 2005) still only 1 in 5 licensed U.S. radio amateurs, definitely not a majority. ARRL has to either "go with the flow" or give up saying that it "represents the ham community." There is no real membership/special-interest group competitor to the ARRL in the United States, so it doesn't seem that there is any "drive for growth" coming from such groups. Few manufacturers need the amateur radio market so it won't be them to any great extent. About the only real "drive" for anything new is plain old de facto standardization by the users themselves. Attrition will take care of old morsemen, but only in a distant part of the near future. Voice by SSB on HF became the most-used mode there by de facto standardization. Voice by FM on VHF and UHF became the de facto standard mode there. Repeaters and packet radio relay came into being by de facto standardization; regulations on such were done after the fact, not before. De facto standardization is a powerful driver of what is used where and by whom. The FCC here has tried to make de jure standardization in several radio services, succeeded in some (most notably in Mass Media Radio Service - formerly known as Broadcasting - specifically in DTV). It just isn't in the loop to impose who should do what where ahead of the de facto standardization in established radio services...the time delay of democratic-principle law, the "respondu-cantu" of NPRM-to-Comments-to-R&O is too slow. Witness the 15 years of delay between FCC 90-53 and NPRM 05-143 on manual morse code testing...in addition to 18 separate Petitions that all had to be "discussed" (and cussed). snip There have indeed been massive changes in technology over the past half century. Instant communication on a global basis is available to almost everyone now, affordably and from virtually anywhere. Sure, during natural disasters this capability is severely impacted - but in everyday life, amaueur radio can no longer compete for public interest as it once did. (why go through licensing and buy expensive radio equipment to talk with Uncle Bob in Peoria on ham radio, when you can call him up on Skype on the Internet with great audio and live colour full-motion video for free?) A lot more is coming for the average citizen if EDN and Electronic Design and SPECTRUM magazines can be believed. VoIP is an accomplished fact today, the only real drawback being some Common Carrier arguments against it. The usual radio amateur argument for amateur radio is that it is "low cost" and "independent from infrastructure." SOME amateur radio is low cost, yes, but the "independence" from the infrastructure inhibits a greater utilization of amateur radio in true emergency work (apart from the after- the-fact health-and-welfare messaging). Thirty years ago the "phone patch" was popular in connecting overseas servicemen with their families in the USA but, now that the military has the DSN with direct input to the Internet plus direct connection to stateside telephone networks, those phone patches are seldom needed; overseas military people can call home directly from nearly everywhere. "Low cost" equipment is highly debateable, even if out- rageous claims of some are corrected. Really low-cost HF transceivers HAVE to be used models, some with their insides "modified." New ones require a kilodollar across the counter minimum to set up a reasonable station. snip Along with the common assumption that code testing is an impediment to new Amateur licensees (due to no access to HF without it), there is the companion assumption that licensing is also an impediment. The theory is that if licensing was removed (as it was with CB many years ago) that the floodgates would open and the bands would become overcrowded by the stampede of new amateur operators. I look on the "companionship" of code testing and all testing as a lot of rationalized, smoke-screen-for-effect misdirection by the OT morsemen. :-) This is, of course, nonsense - they aren't there either. Fifty years ago, perhaps - but not now. In the three years that I have held a license, I have met very few people who were interested at all in radio communications. Try this experiment - show a teenage kid an SSTV picture being received, and watch the reaction..... Can't say I've had such an experience. If it's anything at all like old-style facsimile (that I had to run tests on in 1955), it would be deathly slow in generation for a teener's normal rapid pace. :-) I have observed some older teeners at a mall using cell phones with camera-imaging capability (they were comparing styles with friends in another mall). Quick, rapid response, all appearing to know how to use their phones as expertly as anyone. We hams are becoming a rare breed as technology advances. Sigh...that has been happening since a half century ago. The miniaturization of nearly everything electronic is defeating the hammer-and-anvil, big-brute mentality of some hobbyists. A REAL problem I see is the attitudes of some in vainly trying to keep the old paradigms...such as amateurs are "leading the way in state of the art developments." They aren't and haven't been since the advent of solid-state electronics a half century ago. They have to give up their wish-fulfillment of "greatness in radio" and just continue to have fun with their radios as a hobby. Nothing wrong with that and perhaps better oriented mentally to just enjoy a pastime. [that's what hobbies are] Nearly 60 years ago I got interested in radio while both flying model aircraft and being a part-time worker in the model-hobby industry (Testor Chemical Co., makers of cement, "dope" the lacquer paint, and balsa wood). Today the model hobby industry is bigger than ever and the AMA, the Academy of Model Aeronautics, has a quarter million members (more than the ARRL ever had). In knowing many modelers over the years, I've not heard any of them boast of "advancing the state of the art" in aeronautics nor of being anything else but hobbyists. The technology of air, sea, and space has long ago gone FAR beyond the capabilities of model hobbyists working by themselves. The same is true for "radio," at least for the MF-HF bands used by radio amateurs. It is basically a hobby, a fun pastime done for personal enjoyment, an intellectual challenge for those who want to get into the theory of it, but also needing federal regulation due to the nature of EM propagation and interference mitigation. There just isn't any need to have any "trained reservoire" of morsemen in the amateur radio ranks, not for national needs, not for any "homeland defense," not for any worry about "terrorists" nor for natural disasters. The year 2005 is NOT 1935. Time can't be stopped. Old regulations have become obsolete, need modernization. Those who have a desperate NEED for titles, status, privilege will have to seek other venues to self-glorify themselves. There's a limit to what federal regulations can do for them...at the expense of all those who come after them who ARE the future. |
Docket Scorecard
StatHaldol wrote: Does the FCC have to make a decision on the code issue by a certain date? If so, what is that date. Thanks in advance. not by a certain date. however if they dilly daily too long NCI will organize a campaign to put pressure on them, the FCC seems to have caved even to the threat of such presure in bring out the the NPRM when they did |
Docket Scorecard
wrote: Iitoi wrote: Wrote: But with all due respect, how do we know your scorecard is accurate? Does anyone check your work? You do make mistakes, Len. We've seen some of them here. Also, it's clear to anyone who reads your posts here that you're hardly unbiased on the subject of code testing. Indeed, you used the phrase "unbiased by local groups' opinions on morsemanship as either vital or neccessary [sic] in amateur radio" as if *others* scorecards are somehow biased - but not yours. You've previously accused others of 'massaged numbers' and 'fraud' when their data did not match yours, too. So why should anyone *assume* the accuracy of your scorecard, Len? I'm not saying you're intentionally cooking the books..... No, you're not actually SAYING he's cooked the books (you're too slippery to make a blunt statement) but you're certainly spotlighting the possibility. Is "spotlighting the possibility" of something not allowed? it certainly is Besides, "cooking the books" implies an intent to deceive. There's also the possibility of honest mistakes. There doesn't seem to be anybody checking Len's 'work', anyway. then go for it no one else is conceed enough If Anderson was too "cook the books", do you really think the score would be nearly an even tie between the two camps (about 55:45 at last tabulation)? Maybe. That's not the point, anyway. sure is Grow up. What does that mean in this context? That I should accept Len's scorecard without question, just because he says so? that you should do the work yourself or shut up about it |
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